Amazon Announces It Sold More Kindle Books Than Physical Books On Christmas... But Doesn't It Mean Rented?
from the it-ain't-a-purchase-if-you-don't-own-it dept
Lots of folks have sent in various versions of Amazon's hyped up press release about how it sold more ebooks on Christmas than physical books. While this ought to make some publishers reconsider their hatred of ebooks, there are two points that make this rather meaningless. First, how many physical books are usually sold on Amazon on Christmas day? My guess is not very many. Books are purchased before Christmas day. However, I'm sure plenty of people did get new Kindles on Christmas, and quite a few then went and "purchased" an ebook or two to test it out.But, again, since this is the Kindle we're talking about, shouldn't Amazon make the distinction between purchased and rented? When someone buys a physical book from Amazon, they then own that book and can do pretty much what they want with it, including reselling it or giving it away. When they "purchase" an ebook from Amazon, that's not the case at all. They're quite limited in what they can do with it. They can't resell it. They can't share it with a friend (unless they give up their entire Kindle and all the books on it). And, of course, Amazon can make the ebook disappear at will -- though, it insists it will never do this again. Even though it can. So, congrats to Amazon, for renting more books on a day when such rentals are to be expected and when physical book sales are probably at their very lowest.
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Filed Under: books, christmas, ebooks, kindle, rentals, sales
Companies: amazon
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Why rent?
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Re: Why rent?
In short - its the content that matters - not the form that its delivered in. The physical book is an outdated concept that will disappear within a decade or two.
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Re: Re: Why rent?
- I doubt that many others agree
"Kindle's ebooks are cheaper"
- By how much ? Any examples ?
Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself.
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Re: Re: Why rent?
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Re: Re: Why rent?
ebooks are being received pretty much the way MP3's were in the mid to late 90's. the arguments are pretty much the same: poor quality, being tethered to your pc/player/whatever, etc. etc.
like the mp3, ebooks appeal to people who interested purely in the content and not necessarily in the package.
ebooks are great if you just want to read books, rather than collect and display them. bibliophiles, like their audiophile brethren, discount convenience, portability, and cost as useful features, if not salable commodities.
this is fine, and there will always be dead tree format books for the collectors of the world, just like there will always be vinyl or CD. the difference is that now there is a purely digital (and therefore hopefully cheaper) option for those of us who are only interested in the content.
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Re: Re: Re: Why rent?
Digital sales have increased and real competition introduced between retailers (albeit still at the whim of the major content providers) once DRM was removed and actual MP3s were available.
Besides, the major problem with eBooks at the moment are not just the DRM that's heavily enforced by devices like the kindle, but the fact that they're worth less and cost more. I can buy a second hand paperback for less than $5, loan it to friends, give it away or sell it when I'm finished and I'm at no risk of not being able to read it again if I wish because the provider's DRM terms have changed. I prefer physical books because I can trade them in for other books at a major discount to the normal cover price of my next book. Try doing that with your next Kindle purchase.
Maybe this will change once DRM-free books become available, or the price of the DRM-laden rentals actually falls well below the cost of the physical item, but for now you're fooling yourself if you think it's worth the money.
If you want an example, The Lost Symbol by Dan Brown is currently $12 for the hardcover, $10.99 for a used marketplace copy and $13.79 for the Kindle version. Unless you hate carrying a book *that* much, why would you not simply resell it when you finish it, regaining most of the value? It certainly makes more sense to my mind than buying a Kindle copy that you can never, ever loan or resell and can be removed by Amazon at any time.
It's about common sense, not some form of collecting obsession or elitism.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Why rent?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Why rent?
it's not hard to get ebooks (or mp3s) without DRM on them, for free. when you compare that to the MP3 of 12 years ago which was also free and without DRM, you get the same responses:
"i don't want to listen to read/listen on my computer"
"i like books/CDs better"
among my peers, cost and DRM are not a factor, since we don't deal much with either, it boils down to how you like to consume content: fast and purely digital, or in a higher quality physical medium.
at some point, either the ebook equivalent of itunes will emerge, or ebook sharing will become more widespread. either way, the cost+DRM problem will be handled, and the digital vs. physical debate will be all that remains.
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Re: Re: Why rent?
*Amazon e-book always $9.99, cannot sell, or donate.
*Average non new release paperback $5.99-$7.99 + I can resell or donate.
*Average 2nd hand paperback at my favorite used bookstore $1.99-$2.99 + I can resell or donate.
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Re: Re: Why rent?
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Re: Why rent?
I don't either. That's why I will never buy a DRM'd book. Interestingly, at least from my POV, I find all the ebooks I want to read for free. There are a few exceptions, of course, but I think its high time publishers face the real world. I'm never going back to paper.
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Don't get it
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Re: Don't get it
But since I use the library extensively and sale alot of the books I do buy - the cost is prohibitive. If you factor in that more than half the books I read come from my library membership, the sale of bought books etc, then I doubt I spend more than a couple of dollars per book read. I can't believe people are willing to pay the $250 or so for the device and then not even get a steep discount on buying the books.
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Re: Don't get it
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Re: Re: Don't get it
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Re: Don't get it
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A Halfway Solution?
The only thing I can propose that might be acceptable to ebook publishers, is have a shortish lifespan for the DRM of electronic versions of books. After a number of years, most books' value diminishes rapidly; and all/most ereaders will be broken, or superseded and/or overtaken by new technology or by a new distribution model, so their DRM-ed content will be useless/valueless.
The 'lease' model that Mike decries would be applied, in the manner of poetic justice, to the DRM itself: e-books' DRM should/could be legal for only ten years, after which keys to unlock the DRM are published. The keys would have to be registered with whatever government organization takes care of copyright when the publisher first gains copyright and these would be released/published at the end of the DRM's ten-year life.
The publisher would be forced to market the books properly, as their 'life' would be shorter. In instances where a publisher goes belly up, the wait would be somewhat less than the near-infinite time it would take to crack the DRM's crypto.
The fact that dead-tree books are now very easily and very quickly digitized en masse by groups of people or Google's nifty book-scanning rig, challenges publishers' (un)righteously indignant squawks to rest: They ARE being digitized now, anyway. Welcome to the 21st Century.
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Re: A Halfway Solution?
What you have is called "you have no idea when Amazon's DRM is going to break, but when it does, or they choose to stop supporting their DRM server, you're going to lose your books"
Google's scanning is crap, at least when I tried it previously. Based off of that and due to how it tracks, you can't even read something if you chose to do so. Only about 5 pages usually, I forgot what the default is but it's not "the entire pdf of a scanned book".
Completely useless, is what it all is. People just don't want to give up their purchase/commitment even if there are better options, much like if someone bought you an iphone but it was 3g instead of 3gs.
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Re: A Halfway Solution?
If you're buying books as an investment I'm glad I'm not on your retirement plan. Unless you're able to find good deals on first editions of classics or rare, very old, folios, manuscripts, & illuminated works, forget referring to the monetary value of a book, its just not worth dealing with. In which case it was no value in this discussion, since we're dealing with eBooks. Now, if we refer to the value of a book for reference, or because we simply enjoy reading it, I'm all on board. In fact, I re-iterate how much I value eBooks. I can take all this material for reference that used to take up walls of space in my house now and put them in my pocket. Plus I can search for information I want via electronic means, even if its in text format. THAT is real value, and why eBooks are hardly going away. In fact, I hope the industry has just gotten started. Remember the Jukeboxes for mp3s? An net-aware appliance for textual information. There, I just pulled that out of my ass. There must be more possibilities. The publishers are sitting on a gold mine and they are locked into paper books. What asses.
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http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/article/immaturity
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Re:
I'm sorry you dont feel well, but pouting will not help you. Get up and go play outside.
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The Internet routes around damage....
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really?
I don't see amazon even over-promoting this fact. From a cursory look I couldnt even find a link from its homepage (I am sure there is a link, but it is not very obvious).
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Kindle vs. X
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Kindle?? You have to be kidding.
I'll pass on the small screen, and buy regular books that I can keep.
The same with an iPhone, you don't own the apps and if you cancel the service you lose everything.
At least with a new PC / Laptop you can move and keep your old (Books) and files. I'll stay with old school. The idea that someone wants a smaller screen or reading area is stupid.
Since most of the people in the US can't read worth a damn anyway, maybe it is a good thing.
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Re: Kindle?? You have to be kidding.
right on grandpa!
you tell those kids to take their hula-hoops and their rock n' roll to get off your lawn!
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Re: Kindle?? You have to be kidding.
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Amazon Gift Cards?
If so, I can see how a bunch of people might also have received the gift cards Xmas morning and bought eBooks during the day....
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Rented? Not Really
The technology is in it's infancy, and yet all these sales seem to suggest that the public is more than willing to operate under these conditions. I know you hate the idea, but the public seems willing to work with it.
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Re: Rented? Not Really
That would make sense if, as I've complained about before, such distinctions were made abundantly clear at the purchase point. Whether through obfuscation by the retailer or willful customer ignorance, or more likely a combination of both, I doubt most consumers are currently aware of the conditions under which they are currently purchasing, likely because, as you stated, the technology is still in its infancy.
As are the methods by which content producers will abuse it....
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Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
The Kindle Store. The Kindle Store enables you to download, display and use on your Device a variety of digitized electronic content, such as books, subscriptions to magazines, newspapers, journals and other periodicals, blogs, RSS feeds, and other digital content, as determined by Amazon from time to time (individually and collectively, "Digital Content").
Use of Digital Content. Upon your payment of the applicable fees set by Amazon, Amazon grants you the non-exclusive right to keep a permanent copy of the applicable Digital Content and to view, use, and display such Digital Content an unlimited number of times, solely on the Device or as authorized by Amazon as part of the Service and solely for your personal, non-commercial use. Digital Content will be deemed licensed to you by Amazon under this Agreement unless otherwise expressly provided by Amazon.
Restrictions. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, you may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense or otherwise assign any rights to the Digital Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Digital Content. In addition, you may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, bypass, modify, defeat or circumvent security features that protect the Digital Content.
Subscriptions. The following applies with respect to Digital Content made available to you on a subscription basis, including, but not limited to, electronic newspapers, magazines, journals and other periodicals (collectively, "Periodicals"): (i) you may request cancellation of your subscription by following the cancellation instructions in the Kindle Store; (ii) we may terminate a subscription at our discretion without notice, for example, if a Periodical is no longer available; (iii) if we terminate a subscription in advance of the end of its term, we will give you a prorated refund; (iv) we reserve the right to change subscription terms and fees from time to time, effective as of the beginning of the next term; and (v) taxes may apply to subscription fees and will be added if applicable.
The issue of resale will likely be addressed in the future. I am suspecting that there will be a clearing house that will allow you to transfer works from one kindle to another, but in part that will have to verify that there are no remaining digital copies on your Kindle. That is the real issue of digital "resale", you can easily retain a copy and transfer it as well, effectively creating pirated copies.
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Re: Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
1. Why can't they also put this in a summary language to explain to the average person what the hell they're talking about instead of keeping it only in legalese?
2. Where in any of that is the retention of the right to remove content from your hardware that you've purchased? It specifically says permanent copy, so how can that jive with that capability?
3. If we're buying less of a product with eBooks (e.g. not physical, no right to resell, no right to share, etc.), how is that reflected in the price of the eBook? Is there a relatively constant price fractioning to reflect this difference? If not, how does that make sense?
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Re: Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
Anything stated next to the "Add to Cart" button?
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Re: Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
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Re: Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
I doubt it, somehow. It never happened with DRMed music, nor audiobooks and hasn't happened with movies. Even if it did become available, the resale market would be limited to other Kindle users, probably restricted by physical location, and so still worth less than the physical resale market.
"That is the real issue of digital "resale", you can easily retain a copy and transfer it as well, effectively creating pirated copies."
That happens anyway, even with the restrictions. The new DRM that comes with the Kindle could easily have been designed with resales in mind (authenticated through Amazon, who would know how many copies you initially bought), but they haven't.
Funnily enough, restricting what legitimate customers can do does not prevent the pirates from doing their thing - it only makes devices like the Kindle less attractive for paying customers. The lack of resale value makes the eBooks less valuable, and until prices drop in kind I don't see why they should become anything other than a niche market. Then again, I also don't comprehend why someone would pay close to full hardcover price for a book on the iPhone but people apparently do that as well...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
Which is why the are selling so well, right?
DRM would work if people weren't working so hard to get around it. A fully working DRM system would allow for transfer from device to device. But most people are too much in a hurry to hack and try to get something for nothing, so it's hard to make it stick.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
I doubt their statements as to the reason for DRM, that it is there to stop piracy. I think it is there to wring every last cent possible from their unwitting customers.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rented? Not Really
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Re: Rented? Not Really
Limited rights purchases should be explicitly stated as such. Apparently this is not being done yet.
Just because some people in the public are willing to go along with something does not imply it is a good idea.
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there's a reason to rent
to be honest, at that price point I'd probably spent more money on books overall than I do right now.
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Re: there's a reason to rent
Others do take issue with the draconian control freak attitude exhibited by so called rights holders.
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Or maybe blogospam is the new way of advertising.
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Re:
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Darn those hardback publishers. And here I thought I actually owned the book when in fact it appears all I have are rented copies.
This is downright un-American and an unjust infringment upon my civil rights as secured by the US Constitution and the laws enacted pursuant thereto.
Taking a cue from so-called "Tea Baggers" I am starting a "Copyright Whining Baggers" movement.
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Re:
I have a hard time believing that "those darn hardback publishers" are going to show up at your door demanding their books back anytime soon. See the difference?
Try again.
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Re:
It is certainly unamerican and anticapitalistic to deny a persons right to resell what a person legally purchased.
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Re:
That was pathetic.
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Online Library?
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This is iffy Mike,
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This is iffy Mike:
If I purchase an app from the AppStore, I can't give it away and am quite limited in my use of it. Does this mean apple isn't really selling anything? I would think not. So why bash Amazon for selling/renting (read: making money) on eBooks instead of physical books. Wouldn't you like this news? Technology trumps the brick-and-mortar? No? Ok.
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Re: This is iffy Mike:
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There are many different ebook readers!
I'm partial to the Astak EZReader Pro.
Lots of formats, 5" e-ink screen, nice design.
Copy your files from My ebooks to a 16Gb SDHC card and pop it in the reader.
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DRM...
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Re: DRM...
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Re: Re: DRM...
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Re: Re: DRM...
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Re:
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Amazon is not "selling" those books and should not be permitted to claim that they are. The FTC should take a hard look at this behavior. I believe they are scamming people with deceptive language and glossing over the reality of what they are doing.
When I buy something, that something becomes my private property and is legally under my control. That is not what happens when you pay for an e-book from Amazon.
If Amazon were actually "selling" those book, then they would have committed trespassing and burglary on a very large scale a few months ago when they destroyed copies of George Orwell and JK Rowling books. That was an unbelievably stupid act and they destroyed their image forever in my eyes.
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Re: This is iffy Mike:
Are you sure about that?
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Yes,
DRM=Digital RENTAL Media
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I should have been clearer: "After a number of years, most books' value diminishes rapidly", I meant the value to the publishers.
And I agree: "What you have is called "you have no idea when Amazon's DRM is going to break, but when it does, or they choose to stop supporting their DRM server, you're going to lose your books"."
Hence the key publishing scheme.
And I need to underscore that I was talking about Google's nifty DIGITIZING rig. No 'scan-quality' issues.
For the record: I own an e-reader. For about a year and a half. No, not a Kindle. An iLiad.
I've read about 1,900 documents on it so far - none of which was DRMed - of which about 20 are books. For me, an e-reader is better than a book. More comfortable to read, lighter, and much simpler than carrying a book around, as I travel a lot for my work.
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I'm wainting.
It will cost less am I will know that I'm renting.
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cheap college textbooks
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