Springsteen Pissed At ASCAP For Implying He Instigated Lawsuit Against Pub; Demands His Name Removed

from the nice-one,-ASCAP dept

Fri, Feb 5th 2010 10:13am — Mike Masnick

The antics of ASCAP get sadder and sadder with each month. In just the last year alone, the group has claimed that embedding videos from YouTube requires a performance license despite the fact that YouTube already pays them. It's also claimed that ringtones are a public performance as are the 30 second preview clips you hear on iTunes (yes, seriously, they want to be paid for those too). And, of course, every time we post about ASCAP we get people saying that we shouldn't pick on them because they represent the actual songwriters, unlike the RIAA. But the truth is that ASCAP rarely has the best interests of songwriters in mind, especially smaller ones who often get hurt by the way ASCAP determines payouts.

And now it seems that even some of the big acts are getting quite pissed off at ASCAP. One of the key things that ASCAP has done for years, of course, is threaten venues for not paying a license to have music playing in the background. The end result actually harms many artists because venues stop playing music completely and shut down things like open mic nights, which are so critical for many up-and-coming musicians.

Every so often ASCAP goes to the point of suing, and in its latest lawsuit against Connolly's Pub in midtown Manhattan (actually a pretty good place), it named Bruce Springsteen as a plaintiff in the lawsuit, suggesting Springsteen was ripped off. That resulted in headlines, like the one from The Daily News pointing out that Springsteen himself was suing the pub. Of course, it was actually ASCAP, but the whole mess has The Boss so pissed off that he put out a statement slamming ASCAP and saying he wants nothing to do with the lawsuit and ASCAP never should have filed it in the first place:

ASCAP was solely responsible for naming Bruce Springsteen as a plaintiff in the lawsuit. Bruce Springsteen had no knowledge of this lawsuit, was not asked if he would participate as a named plaintiff, and would not have agreed to do so if he had been asked. Upon learning of this lawsuit this morning, Bruce Springsteen's representatives demanded the immediate removal of his name from the lawsuit.

Yup, that ASCAP. All about helping the artists and creators, right? Except when they smear their name in lawsuits they want nothing to be a part of...

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Filed Under: bruce springsteen, copyright, performance rights
Companies: ascap

41 Comments

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Nastybutler77 (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 10:32am

A new term is born
From now on whenever someone does something bone headed, I'm going to refer to them as an ASCAP, or asscap. As in, "Great idea, asscap."
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The Anti-Mike (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 10:44am

any link to the original lawsuit or court filings? I suspect springsteen is only listed as one of the co-plaintiffs, as a matter of course as a rights holder, and through contract, he is likely sort of attached to ASCAP.

I think the real story is that the newspaper got it wrong.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 10:51am

Re:
"I suspect springsteen is only listed as one of the co-plaintiffs, as a matter of course as a rights holder, and through contract, he is likely sort of attached to ASCAP."

That's silly. If he's the rights holder, then it's upon him to file the suit, which he didn't, ASCAP did. If he isn't the rights holder because ASCAP's constituency retains the rights, then he doesn't belong being named in the suit.

Either way, there's no reason for him to be listed if he isn't actively involved...
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 10:59am

TAM - What an ASSCAP!
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:01am

I wonder if ASCAP paid for the use of Springsteen's name.....
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The Anti-Mike (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:04am

Re: Re:
DH, I will get back to you later on this, but ASCAP is the publisher and has certain rights and responsiblities. An artist signs their work to them, etc.

It is complicated, but I think that they may be required to name the songwriter as a co-plantiff, or as a listed interested party. It's why I would want to see the original lawsuit, as the way the plantiffs are listed would be important.
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AdamR (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:06am

Re: Re: Re:
Springsteen didnt even write the songs. Link to the News article

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2010/02/04/2010-02-04_the_boss_strikes_sour_note_with_m idtown_bar_and_sues_for_copyright_infringement_.html
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:08am

If I were Springsteen I would jump into this case from on the pub's side. cover all legal bills and draw up a contract covering all future legal bills associated with performance rights.

This would undo the damage caused by the ascap and make them look like asses if they ever tried it again. It would also boost Springsteen's name.
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AdamR (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:08am

Re:
Pleas leave poor TAM(pons) alone before he starts crying again about getting trolled here.
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AdamR (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:12am

Re:
"Connolly's, which did not return calls for comment, could face a $30,000 fine for skipping out on what would have been a $2,700 licensing fee, Candilora said"

All this over 2700.00, and they really don't know who the band was? How do they even know if it was Springsteen's version of the song or someone elses?
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Robert Ring (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:16am

It's astounding how little business sense some businesses have.
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RD, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:18am

Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
"DH, I will get back to you later on this, but ASCAP is the publisher and has certain rights and responsiblities. An artist signs their work to them, etc."

Bwahahahaha! Do you even know what ASCAP DOES? They are a COLLECTION SOCIETY for PERFORMANCE FEES. They arent a "publisher" any more than YOU are. The artist certainly doesnt "sign their work" to them, that is the LABEL.

Jesus, how do you argue these points with a straight face when you dont even know the players? Oh thats right, you dont, you just automatically take the stance opposite that of ANY criticism of Big Media, regardless if its right, true, or even makes sense.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:28am

poor bruce
y aknow eh hes one of the artists that the CRIA ( AKA RIAA ) hasn't EVER PAID FOR ANY SALE OF HIS MUSIC IN CANADA

if they treated me that way i might be inclined to get nastey about stuff but here we have a proper musician stating NOT ME MAN

BRUCE gets it , hes one of my dads favorites and unfortunately my dad doesn't know that ever time he buys one of bruces in Canada BRUCE IS GETTING RIPPED OFF.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:29am

Re:
Its the TAM automatic cop out when a story is 100% against what he likes to rant about:
"I think there is more to this story"
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mike allen (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:30am

Re: Re: Re:
you are WRONG again TAM Bruce springsteen co publishies huis own music as written on all his tracks i looked at in 5 minutes. say publisher Bruce Springsteen /John Landau Management

perhaps i can get ASCAP out of the letters but no i dont see them there.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:31am

and i gatehr ASCAP and CRIA also steal money form artists in canada
anti mike on the move again eh.
QUICK go talk to your friends get there side

/me starts passing th eHOME made NON 17$ movie theatre popcorn

YUP tell us the truth anti mike we believe you ...honest
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anti anti mike, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:33am

"readers write" form p2pnet
damn doesnt anti mike sound like him?
some self professed writer that no one cares about....
makes ya wonder why p2pnet is closing up , it became like the anti mike show er readers write show.
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MAtt, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:41am

Re: Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
I don't subscribe to the "big [put industry here]" crap where business are vilified for trying to make a profit, but ASCAP is, in fact, a bunch of ass-hats. They extort a seemingly minor fee from small businesses, and they do it over and over again to the tune of, well, I don't know how much money, but I bet it is a lot.

My own business was extorted by them. They wanted almost $1000 per year because we played the radio. Don't forget that the radio station is paying them, too. We chose to go with a business satellite radio that includes the fee for substantially less...Wonder who has a hand in what back pocket? Oh yeah, and pay one agency and the other music licensing agencies will come running with their hands out, too.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:41am

and yea sprinstein really could do something here
i found out hes one of the artists never been paid for all sales in canada a month or so ago.

MY father being out of the country will be upset to hear that one as hes a firm believer in getting the artists he likes some doh.

PERHAPS if Bruce is smart he could setup a site in Canada and sell his entire collection via a website. I'LL BUY ONE COPY no matter your cost for my dad. SAD when millions of copies in Canada are effectively counterfeit. WONDER would ACTA prevent this behavior? more questions no answers on that NOT SECRET DEMOCRATIC treaty we are going to get rammed at us.

In fact if bruce were smarter he'd get a multitude of artists together and offer that pub and any pub a deal.
put some cdrs in the club, and show tour dates of the real band that another band covers...

BRUCE has always made more touring hes the perfect example of well i aint making nothing form cdrs ill tour.

hes old enough to almost be most of yours grandfather AND STILL tours and puts on a damn decent show.

always impressed .....
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NAMELESS.ONE, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:46am

well matt
i bet it might haave been cheaper to hire a few musicans to make you a ton a music that is genre based for your shop
over the long run.

they'd prolly do each tune real cheap and you could hten say have that satellite subscription still for 6 months of the year for variety.

ya know i'll be you culd also find a lot a people like i dunno bands like http://www.myspace.com/costanzas
who might do some stuff real cheap. and i mean they actually give the music away and use it as promo for touring.

also remember that most abnds are capable of making other genres a music and might also help you get in touch with others of like mind. IF YOUR using free and open music then ASCAP ( ASSHAT ) can't charge you. and its easy to get a 80$ computer to mix up tunes.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 11:58am

Re:
Original documents are always nice to have before launching off on tirades. If the is the rights holder and has licensed such rights to a third party, it may be that he was considered to be an "indispensable party" because of the licensing arrangement.

The original document, the complaint, would provide valuable information in this regard.
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mike42 (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:03pm

Re: well matt
Doesnt' the ASCAP have a government mandate to go after royalties regardless, and keep the money in the event that they cannot find rights holders?

In other words, is it even possible to opt out, or is all performance subject to these clowns?
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The Anti-Mike (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:06pm

Re: Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
RD, please, get bent. Take your anger out on your dog or something, I don't need to here from you about it.

What is ASCAP?

ASCAP is a membership association of more than 370,000 U.S. composers, songwriters, lyricists, and music publishers of every kind of music. Through agreements with affiliated international societies, ASCAP also represents hundreds of thousands of music creators worldwide. ASCAP is the only U.S. performing rights organization created and controlled by composers, songwriters and music publishers, with a Board of Directors elected by and from the membership.

ASCAP protects the rights of its members by licensing and distributing royalties for the non-dramatic public performances of their copyrighted works. ASCAP's licensees encompass all who want to perform copyrighted music publicly. ASCAP makes giving and obtaining permission to perform music simple for both creators and users of music.

A performance rights collection agency, who works for the writers, performers, and publishers to collect various usage rights fees.

Of course, you could have just done like me and gone to their website to get that definition.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:19pm

Re: Re: well matt
"In other words, is it even possible to opt out, or is all performance subject to these clowns?"

I was just reading through their Articles of Association and it looks like it clearly defines a process for opting IN. It's difficult to surmise whether or not that is in order to collect royalties, or for membership at all. The headers and title of the document suggest that it's for membership at all....

http://www.ascap.com/reference/articles.pdf
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:25pm

You have to do work if you wanna keep trolling here
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The Anti-Mike (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You can look at this:

http://www.discogs.com/Bruce-Springsteen-And-The-E-Street-Band-Magic-Tour-Highlights/releas e/1414852

"Tracks 4 and 8 published by Bruce Springsteen (ASCAP)."

or maybe:

http://songwritershalloffame.org/songs/detailed/C179
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:29pm

You have to do work if you wanna keep trolling here
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:33pm

RD: "They are a COLLECTION SOCIETY for PERFORMANCE FEES."

TAM: "A performance rights collection agency, who works for the writers, performers, and publishers to collect various usage rights fees."

So you agree, that's good.
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RD, 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re: Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
"A performance rights collection agency, who works for the writers, performers, and publishers to collect various usage rights fees.

Of course, you could have just done like me and gone to their website to get that definition."

I did. Thats how I verified that YOU WERE WRONG, about all of it.

They do NOT have the right to sue on behalf of artists... THEY DONT REPRESENT THEM. They collect PERFORMANCE FEES. They are not their "representative" in legal matters. This is an agreement between those who DO represent the Artists, and ASCAP. They overstepped their bounds in their greed. You were wrong. Again. Suck it up.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
How about ASCAP's WE CREATE MUSIC web site- http://www.ascap.com/index.aspx. ASCAP- the AMERICAN SOCIETY OF COMPOSERS, AUTHORS AND PUBLISHERS is empowered by artists to collect royalties on their behalf.

It is more or less a union for musicians.
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RD, 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Tracks 4 and 8 published by Bruce Springsteen (ASCAP)."

Those are specific, live performances. Those arent the RECORDINGS that get played on radio or whatever that ASCAP typically collects a fee for. You really should understand the structure of the business before you try to blindly defend every single thing they do without question.
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The Anti-Mike (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
haha... sorry RD, I used a wrong word to describe them. You are so right, and I am so wrong. They just collect fees for published music being used in public.

How ever will you forgive me? Do you need me to kick your dog for you or something?

Remember: "Tracks 4 and 8 published by Bruce Springsteen (ASCAP)."

Have a nice day!
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Dark Helmet (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
All of this talk about kicking dogs is causing my two Aussie Cattle Dogs to growl at the glow of my laptop uncontrollably.

And, no, they can't read what's on the screen....don't be silly. I'm reading the comments section aloud to them.

What? Yes, of course my dogs understand English. Don't yours?

They also smoke....
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a-dub (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 12:59pm

Ass-hat has the right to license live performances.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 1:33pm

Does Springsteen have a potentially valid defamation claim against the ASCAP?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2010 @ 1:48pm

Re: Re: Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
The Anti-Mike, respecting others 24/7.
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The Anti-Mike (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
RD, it is just an indication that Springsteen is under ASCAP. I wasn't suggesting that those particular songs are being collected for (although in theory, they actually would have collected... that is a whole other issue).
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The Anti-Mike (profile), 5 Feb 2010 @ 2:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blatant attempt to justify Big Media behavior
They also smoke....

try spraying water on them, it usually puts them out.
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Randy Paul, 6 Feb 2010 @ 6:25am

Re: Re:
Actually thst's not at all true. In its agreement with its members the members, including Bruce Springsteen, the members agree to let ASCAP act as their attorney-in-interest for these types of lawsuits. Accordingly, ASCAP was entirely correct in listing Springsteen as one of the plaintiff's if his work was performed without a license. Full disclosure: I worked for ASCAP for nearly twenty years and have no love for them as they kicked me to the curb five years ago after all those years. Their senior management team is exceptionally scummy. That being said, however, the facts are the facts. There was nothing legally wrong with listing Springsteen as a plaintiff. From the pr standpoint it was beyond stupid, however, and the senior management team there has a tin ear for pr.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2010 @ 1:04pm

Re: Re: Re:
A Slate article elaborating on your points:

http://www.slate.com/id/2244164/pagenum/all

Interesting that down near the bottom of the article it references a slew of similar past lawsuits.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2010 @ 2:43pm

Re: Slate
I was going to bring this to Mr. Masnick's attention as well. I would like to hear his rebuttal.
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