Microsoft Exec Calls For 'Driver's License For The Internet'
from the what-a-bad,-bad-idea dept
It's been nearly ten years since we first heard the idea that there should be some sort of driver's license for the internet, and it's no less ridiculous a concept now than it was then. However, it's still brought up every now and then. The latest, as sent in by Marcus Carab is that Microsoft's chief research and strategy officer, Craig Mundie, is suggesting an internet driver's license and a special WHO for the internet, as a method of fighting back against bad actors online:Mundie and other experts have said there is a growing need to police the internet to clampdown on fraud, espionage and the spread of viruses.These are the kind of ideas people have when they haven't bothered to think through the consequences of what they're saying. It's unlikely any kind of WHO would be particularly effective. We already have various security companies that have a strong profit motive to do the same thing, and they're failing (miserably). Setting up some sort of government agency to do the same thing? That sounds like a bureaucratic mess.
"People don't understand the scale of criminal activity on the internet. Whether criminal, individual or nation states, the community is growing more sophisticated," the Microsoft executive said.
"We need a kind of World Health Organization for the Internet," he said.
"When there is a pandemic, it organizes the quarantine of cases. We are not allowed to organize the systematic quarantine of machines that are compromised."
He also called for a "driver's license" for internet users.
"If you want to drive a car you have to have a license to say that you are capable of driving a car, the car has to pass a test to say it is fit to drive and you have to have insurance."
And an internet driver's license is even more ridiculous. Unlike a car, the internet is something that people have to use all the time. No driver's license is going to stop people from getting suckered by scammers. Sure, more education could be helpful, but any sort of requirement that they need to pass a test won't stop people from getting on the internet and doing something stupid. If anything, it will give people a false sense of security online. Yes, there are issues with scammers online, but we're not going to fix them with some bureaucracy and forcing people to take a proficiency test.
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Filed Under: craig mundie, driver's license, internet
Companies: microsoft
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You say 'unlike a car, the internet is something that people have to use all the time'. Well, I'd argue that the similarities are actually pretty close. One CAN live without both the internet or a car, but their capabilities are extremely limited. Administering said license would be a different story, however. I have no idea how one would do that but like most business model questions that are brought up here, a reasoned, measured solution can't be that far away.
Honestly, I could've been saved a lot of trouble with the 'net from some sort of mandated government education program, both from having to hold my mother's hand and teach her every step of the way, and from a few pretty major internet slip-ups that I really should have avoided myself. (I was young, there was a credit card involved)
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If you think people buying and selling credit card numbers online is a problem, imagine the market you'll be creating out of whole cloth for forged or stolen "internet driver's licenses"! Don't tell me this won't be a problem - we can't stop forged real driver's licenses _now_, and the first things that sort of looked like what we now call driver's licenses came into being over 100 years ago.
And that's only one implication.
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You seem very concerned about the considerations of implications, but have you considered the implications of faked internet driver's licenses? (Or lack therof?)
Completely ignore the fact that I really wasn't arguing for a definitive internet thumbprint or ID card (which I DO think is a bad idea), just a bit of required internet education, and again your argument falls short.
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Now, two things happen: that credential becomes valuable to people who want to do bad things, and you've turned an "Educational program" that either has to be so watered down it is useless or sufficiently intrusive that lots of people won't pass it and turned it into a black market. Honestly, you should care about that, even if you won't - using government programs to make new black markets is a bad, bad idea.
The second thing you've done is created a hook to hang lots of other ideas on. Sexting kids? Take their license away! Have a problem with libel, shady stock advice, or people pissing on religions? Now there's a hook to hang a law to require message boards to collect "license numbers". It doesn't solve the problem (see the new black market, above), but it is a nightmare for speech. Don't say it won't happen - driver's licenses started out as a registration tax, and now indicate organ donation status and are a way to encourage people to register to vote. Why organ donation voting? Because licenses are easy choke points on which to hang lots of other things, similar or not.
Again, you're really not thinking this through.
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Also, It's slightly off topic but in responding to your remark about car ownership I'm so much better off without a car. I live in a city that has a medium (but not robust) transportation network so I walk a bike a fair amount - yes even in the winter. Far from being "extremely limited" - I have been MORE enabled and have greater freedom without one I have found. I plan my day ahead, get at least 2 miles a day of walking exercise related to work and pleasure, and don't have to worry about drinking if I stay out late at a party. I network with individuals who do drive to "rideshare" when needed, I'm so much more organzized and functional because I "think" and behave in smarter ways. Lose the car -> get smarter!
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Statistically speaking, you're 8 time more like likely to get killed walking drunk than driving drunk, per mile. Start worrying.
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How is the requirement to have a driver's license when driving a car enforced? Easy: police have the power to pull someone over and ask to see their license. Depending on country, people may be required to have their license with them whenever they're driving, or they may have a period of time after being pulled over to present their license at a police station (with the registered owner of the vehicle being notified that this is the case). You can drive without a licence, but you risk getting busted for it.
How would any similar enforcement regime work for the internet? A digital license wouldn't work since it couldn't be tied to a specific person. And hopefully people can see the rather obvious flaws in the idea of giving the police permission to enter houses in order to check internet licenses.
Without a viable enforcement mechanism, any kind of internet license would be useful (and I don't believe a viable enforcement mechanism is possible in a modern democratic nation).
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So, instead of helping your mom out, you want Uncle Sam to do that (you'll pay something in taxes for that) and you wish you had Uncle Sam there to keep you warm and cozy.
There are plenty of socialist (true socialist, not this crap the 'pubs are calling socialism) countries out there. I suggest China. They'll keep you safe.
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Duplex
That whole two-way communication thing is scary isn't it, Marcus?
It was alright when the people were just blasted day-and-night from radio and TV.
But now that they are raising their little fists (sometimes in frighteningly large numbers) against their corporate masters, it's getting a bit tense.
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Sigh
*Facepalm!*
Why in the world would you wish for such a horrible, horrible organization such as another WHO type agency upon the peoples of the world? And why would you even USE that as an example? Even if you believe the WHO is entirely benign, how is this not just BEGGING for those who are critical of the WHO to not immediately be against such a proposition?
If the analogy holds true, this digital WHO would be mostly funded by it's member states (meaning the United Nations, don't get me started on the horribleness of THAT group of globalists), private donors organizations (The Bill Gates Foundation seems a likely choice amongst others, as they also are a huge donor for the WHO), and, the best one for last, Internet Security firms (the WHO's biggest contributor is the Pharma industry, how's THAT for a conflict of interests?).
The level of munipulation and nepotism that will occur within such an organization will be ASTOUNDING....
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Which, I suspect, is the real motive for all this....
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The helmet has been off for a while. Anyone can click my name here and get my real name.
It's in political discussion venues that I reserve my current right to comment anonymously....
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You need a DRIVER's license because
You cannot kill someone with your browser.
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Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
I'd support requiring an internet drivers license for university and corporate networks, most of which already have an equivalent anyway.
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Re: Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
A drivers license is to prove that you have the skill to not hurt someone else. It says nothing about hurting yourself (although it is implied).
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Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
Tell that to the mother of the girl who killed herself due to Facebook postings from a faked persona created by her rival's mother.
While I agree with your claim in general, there are always exceptions.
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Re: Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: Re: Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: Re: Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
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Re: Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
She was killed by HERSELF.
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Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
this web is alll tangled with bugs and viruses that are killing people without knowing it reality is what happens is they end up on different planes with artificial reality that scares people to death in their sleep this is theworks of the antichrist and theway the evil corrupt japnese shadow government iscontrolling society or atleast was till i snuck in the backdoor likeathief in the night an stole it back
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Re: You need a DRIVER's license because
this web is alll tangled with bugs and viruses that are killing people without knowing it reality is what happens is they end up on different planes with artificial reality that scares people to death in their sleep this is theworks of the antichrist and theway the evil corrupt japnese shadow government iscontrolling society or atleast was till i snuck in the backdoor likeathief in the night an stole it back
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I do think there should be more education, normal users are, frankly, damned idiots.
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Re:
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I can't surf 55
Firstly, I agree because most of the problems I encounter are usually due to the most inane of happenstances. Things that, if they were forced to take a simple class, could've been avoided. Simple things like deleting files, how to open certain files, and why they always get a virus after surfing around on Myspace.com.
On the other hand, if it weren't for them making these mistakes, I would not have this source of income.
I would be for a discount card. Take a class voluntarily, learn about your computer, know the difference between RAM and storage space, and you get a card that all techies would acknowledge and give a discount on repairs. No card? Full price. But then you'd have issues with people making copies of them. But if the card were made in such a way that it was not impossible to copy (face it, that's impossible) but very difficult and would require much expertise, then you'd be deserving of said discount, so kudos.
Seriously, how many of us do or want to charge extra when we see the computer is using XPSP2 and IE5? Let alone WinME?
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Arguments
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an alternative that might not be a bad idea is for microsoft to set up some kind of warning letter/test when people first open IE on their new computers. Just to inform them a bit more...but I can see how that could still be pretty annoying
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smartphones are already one of the fastest groing gadgets going and I doubt it is slowing...
Do I need a license if I don't use a phone or a browser? I use my xbox on the internet every day. When the Boxee Box comes out is there a new 'test' I need to take before I plug that in?
Stupid idea is stupid ;)
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not saying you need a license for anything. phone, browser, xbox, playstation whatever. just sayin that throwin a little info about fraud/internet security towards a new computer owner couldnt hurt
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Which machines?
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Re: Which machines?
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Re: Re: Which machines?
Not if M$ is setting the standards, which they probably would be.
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Hold on...
Well....kind of. But think of how much of a profit motive those same security companies have to ensure that malware and all the rest continues to exist. It's the same as with our healthcare industry: There is far less money in cures to diseases compared with moderate treatments.
And I have no problem believing that at least a portion of our ailments, both physical and digital, were purposefully created by those that battle them in the interest of profits....
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Re: Hold on...
"There's no money in a cure. They'll give you a treatment. That's how drug dealers work, they get you on the come back."
- Chris Rock
I'm sure there's a way to restructure this joke that includes security companies, especially with antivirus software.
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It is ridiculous...
People who don't get a license will be forbidden to access their bank accounts? governments sites? not be able to file electronic tax reports?
Yep I see it working LoL
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License to Drive
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Well, Why Not
Considering that most viruses, trojans, keyloggers and the like operate on Microsoft's products, I'm not averse to having an Internet Driver's License if getting one means nobody drives a Windows.
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Helmet
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My deposit to this conversation1
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Virtual licensing vs. physical licensing
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Re: Virtual licensing vs. physical licensing
I notice that this is the exact same problem with copyright infringment notices. The I.P. address only records the computer, not the user.
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Re: Re: Virtual licensing vs. physical licensing
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Re: Re: Re: Virtual licensing vs. physical licensing
They need to address that then a lot of issues will go away.
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Segregation.
Those ideas also translate into segregation.
And the police would love anything like that.
February 3, 2010 4:00 AM PST
Police want backdoor to Web users' private data
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Of course...
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Re: Of course...
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Orwell strikes again
Wake up! - Rage against the machine
My url link has a pdf of the Orwell book 1984 I suggest you take a read.
To Mike: This article need to be shared with infowars Mike if you want to submit it to Alex.
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it's a great idea because...
society already ruined the highway system by letting morons on it, something should really be done to protect the internet from the same rabble.
the internet is a place for college educated white males to argue about star trek and enacting jim crow like restrictions to keep everyone else out will make everything better.
this is the greatest idea ever. nothing could possibly go wrong.
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Re: it's a great idea because...
Well, to be fair, us college educated white folks are just intimidated by the size of the black users' avatars....
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Re: Re: it's a great idea because...
Sorry, this cracka couldn't resist...
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Microchoad
Microsoft would be in charge policing the Internet and collecting the fees for the retarded license?
And because they were the 'law', we would all have to subscribe to their products to use the Internet.
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I CALL for a drivers liscense for OPERATING SYSTEM VENDORS
when the revolution comes i'll be betting the entire microsoft team runs away like lil babies rather then actually fight for there company to control the world
i hear ballmer wants to change his name to pinky
and bill gates wants to change his to half-brain
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Nation States? So you're going to convince China or North Korea to get a 'web driver's license'?
lol
I'd rather just not use it to be honest. And I'm not one that engages in any criminal activity on the web.
I don't need the internet that bad.
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A good idea in theory
When someone gets a computer for the first time, they have no idea was virus are or how they can be infected with "helpful" toolbars (meaning: spyware) by browing Facebook or MySpace.
An Internet "drivers license" would be a good idea in that it would educate new people about the dangers out there and show people how to install basic anti-virus software.
But the trick is how to administer a license like this and how to get people to actually get the license, rather than buying a fake license.
Plus, once people learn about the dangers, would a license like this put security companies out of business? If enough people learn to scan their own computers, why will they need GeekSquad to do a $39.99 "cleaning" for them? Think of all the tech jobs that will be lost!
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hackity hack hack
and lows and beholds your id is now bolds
we shall ever know the sky and the space
as we take you and your money and id for the race
get teh hint BAD , too costly, and as australia is finding out JUST UNDOABLE
its like putting one person fro evry country into a room and tell them to come up with a unniversal greeting for aliens
come back in 5 years they prolly have killed them selves
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seriously?
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Brassy Dickerson is right
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When you can't do things like adopt a HTML browser, kill Netscape, and further innovate, why not create a new business opportunity and legislate it?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/opinion/04brass.html
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An error was encountered while processing your request.
[The pizza you're looking for is not found]
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Business vs Personal
Anyway, if you need a license, how would doing research on the internet for your business come into play? Would one have to have a Business Internet License and a Personal Home License? There are a whole set of issues if you had to have multiple ones for both work and home.
As others have said, a new black market will open up for these types of licenses.
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Re: Business vs Personal
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This whole idea sounds like Pandora's can of worms!
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Re:
You would, of course (discounts available with the purchase of Microsoft products).
Who would maintain/protect that info.
Microsoft, of course.
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Nonsense
I'd expect this kind of assholery from some ancient politician who doesn't understand the technical issues involved, but from a guy who's involved in running Microsoft? Really?
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New Proposal
Specifically, to determine if they know when it is better to keep their mouths shout and be considered ignorant, rather than open their mouths and leave no doubt.
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You know ...
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"Microsoft Exec Calls For 'Driver's License For The Internet'"
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Internet License
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Re: Internet License
> app for the lic, and then you would have to get a biometric reader
> say thumb print or something else.
So what's to stop someone from using his/her friend's computer without getting a license, etc.?
> Don't get me wrong I would not like it any more then you, but it will happen.
No, it won't.
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Re: Re: Internet License
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Re: Re: Re: Internet License
> cut off there thumb
No, you just find a computer that someone has left on and use it.
> it will happen some day.
Not unless the repeal the Constitution and our entire evidence-based legal system.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Internet License
Why? All they have to do is ignore it when it suits them like they already do.
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But I should need an Internet licence for my own protection?
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Re:
Yet (just wait).
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Craig Mundie is an Idiot
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glass-house/stone
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Corporations and government are always looking for new reasons to help us, and in the process, further regulate the internet. They'd like to see the internet as tightly controlled as real life. No thanks.
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Re:
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Internet license
If there's any kind of license needed, it's a license to post to Wikipedia.
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You may not want to hear this, but...
Those days, for the internet, are long past.
Licensing and self-policing has an excellent model for success -- Amateur Radio. And this is not the first time I've said this. They told me "no, you're crazy" back when I first proposed some sort of testing program and licensing - and that was in ... 1994.
We had a chance, then, to opt for the Ham Radio model for the internet. "We" decided not to, and as a result, the self-imposed model for the internet has become CB radio. And we all know what a useless pile of nonsense THAT is.
So... no more need be said, at least by me. Since I am sure these comments will be met by the usual round of flaming and name-calling.
That's today's internet for you.
73 DE K2NE
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Re: You may not want to hear this, but...
And what percentage of the population uses Ham Radio? Yeah, that licensing bit sure made it popular and widely used, didn't it?
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Re: You may not want to hear this, but...
Some might say that I'm crazy for saying people should have to have a license to use a phone, but they're just a bunch of flamers and name-callers.
Flame on...
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Re: You may not want to hear this, but...
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Re: sneezekitty's comment
"That is so much BULLSH*T."
In my original comment, I said:
"I am sure these comments will be met by the usual round of flaming and name-calling.
That's today's internet for you."
--------------------------
I rest my case.
K2NE
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Not gonna happen
This is just funny to read, and absolutely impossible to enforce.. Didn't you see MATRIX????
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Further Proof
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Re: Further Proof
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Microsoft Calls for It to be Some else's Fault
-chad
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ME
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Computer breathalizers?
Sometimes people do make sense but their grammar is totally off which doesn't match the personality which makes me suspect they are not in their right minds.
I think a lot of *racial* hate is people being drunk when on the web and not remembering it the next day and are shocked they are *banned* or *flagged* without remembering the event.
I am all for having alcohol intake devices installed on people's computers mandatory since people are unwilling to accept responsibility.
Draconian states are a result where people are too easily swayed to support big government and are unwilling to accept moral responsibility since they have no belief in higher powers thus no incentive to behave right unless they are afraid of the men in blue.
Atheists will respect the men in blue before they do to you and many don't even do that.
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