Comedian Has To Retell Joke 2nd Time, Because Viacom Couldn't Have Him Sing Four Words: 'We Are The World'
from the copyright-insanity dept
Copyright insanity continues. Stephan Kinsella posts an email from Luke Mroz, who recently attended a Comedy Central taping of some standup comics, that is going to be used in an upcoming TV show. Mroz explains how copyright law got in the way and forced one comedian to have to come back out and tell a joke a second time:One of the performers was one of my favorite comedians named Robert Kelly. He told a really good joke about how he rarely used the word love because it loses its strength if you use it to much. When his wife tells him she loves him, he shrugs it off. When his father told him he loved him, for the first time in his adult life when he graduated high school, he feigned breaking down into tears and acting like an emotional wreck. While doing this, he feigned being hugged and sang the phrase "We are the world". He then went on to his next joke.Remember, all he did was "sing" the four words in the title once. He didn't break out into a full rendition of the song. Just "We Are The World." That's it. And he had to come back out and tell the joke a second time to avoid Comedy Central (really: Viacom) having to clear the rights on that song -- a song that was written for charity. But copyright isn't stopping free expression?
After another comedian, the taping ended. We were informed that the crowd had to stay put because Bob Kelly had to come out and re-film a joke. It was the joke I just mentioned. They said it had to be re-taped because Comedy Central didn't have the rights to the song "We Are The World".
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Filed Under: comedy central, copyright, jokes, we are the world
Companies: viacom
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only 1 song in the world?
but he doesn't want one of those songs. he wants this specific song because the rights holders spent millions making sure that everyone not under a rock has heard it... this specific song which was only created copyright could be used to recoup expenses. that's the only reason we have this song in the first place. if viacom doesn't want to help out in recoupment, that's their fault.
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Re: only 1 song in the world?
but he doesn't want one of those songs. he wants this specific song because the rights holders spent millions making sure that everyone not under a rock has heard it... this specific song which was only created copyright could be used to recoup expenses. that's the only reason we have this song in the first place. if viacom doesn't want to help out in recoupment, that's their fault."
Um, perhaps its because if he sang the chorus to a song no one knew, the joke wouldnt work? Really, you are stretching now.
Your TAM is showing...
Or was that all sarcasm? Because I cant believe even TAM could be THAT thick...
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Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
However, I will say this. Even a song that is user for Charity is subject to copyright, performance, rights, etc. The rights are administered by Warner/Chappel Music, one of the largest of it's kind. This is not the first time that We Are The World has been in the copyright spotlight.
For me, it sounds like Viacom didn't want to pay a license for musical performance, so they nixed it. Otherwise, they would have been paying an extra license on a TV show that probably isn't all that profitable to start with.
It's just one of those things. There is no much leeway on "fair use" which it comes to public performance and TV distribution.
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Yep. Thats how TAM and his Big Media butt buddies operate. The think that EVERY use must be paid. There is NO FAIR USE. FAIR USE is a DEFENSE, not an EXCEPTION. NO ONE has to consider fair use for ANYTHING, since its not a RIGHT.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
Fair use is something that more of less has to be asserted. It is incredibly hard to call fair use when someone is standing there giving a performance that includes singing (even for a short period of time). Maybe it is fair use, maybe it isn't. Why would Viacom want to fight it? Why would the producer of the show risk wasting a night worth of recording because part of the show can't be used?
I can really tell that you have never run a business or been in upper management (except maybe a McShiftManager), because you can't seem to think past your nose.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
It's obvious that you, once again, need to be reminded that there actually is a real definition of fair use. It's not some mysterious, abstract, or ambiguous term. So here it is, according to the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law:
"fair use: a use of copyrighted material that does not constitute an infringement of the copyright provided the use is fair and reasonable and does not substantially impair the value of the work or the profits expected from it by its owner"
Now, I could understand that in some situations it may be a little unclear if fair use applies or not, but this is not one of those situations. This use does not, in any way, impair the value of the original or the profits expected from it's owner.
It's also very interesting how you like to revert to insults to finalize your comment. And you wonder why people here are often hostile to you?
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"I can really tell that you have never run a business or been in upper management (except maybe a McShiftManager), because you can't seem to think past your nose."
Ah, then, so neither have you. Which makes you no more or less qualified than me or, well, ANYONE really, to be asserting what is or is not valid in copyright and Big Media matters.
"Fair use is something that more of less has to be asserted. It is incredibly hard to call fair use when someone is standing there giving a performance that includes singing (even for a short period of time). Maybe it is fair use, maybe it isn't. Why would Viacom want to fight it? Why would the producer of the show risk wasting a night worth of recording because part of the show can't be used?"
Well, there is this think called "parody", you should look it up, as it applies DIRECTLY to this particular article. And no, you do NOT need to "assert" it for it to fall under fair use, its de facto (much like using it for the purposes of news reporting, commentary and criticism, etc).
You really should understand the issues before you speak out so strongly against them, since it makes you look like a child playing at being an adult.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
"Maybe it is fair use, maybe it isn't. Why would Viacom want to fight it? Why would the producer of the show risk wasting a night worth of recording because part of the show can't be used?"
If you can't answer that, it is proof you never have run a business.
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Re: only 1 song in the world?
I can really tell that you have never run a business or been in upper management (except maybe a McShiftManager), because you can't seem to think past your nose."
I think the issue here is that the system as it stands means it makes sense for upper management to make a decision like this. Copyright lawsuits are a bitch, and it's understandable why a company would want to avoid them. There's no question in my mind that the retelling was done as a hedge against liability (probably on advice from an overpaid lawyer), not because there's any question of *actual* liability.
In management terms, the decision is simple: a 2 minute retelling (plus 5 minutes of discussion time, 10 minutes of lawyer's fees, etc.) is cheaper than filing the paperwork necessary to shrug off or settle a frivolous copyright lawsuit. That doesn't make it a right decision, but perhaps it is a rational one from a business perspective.
I would tend to think that such ridiculous risk aversion is a trait of middle, not upper management ... it's certainly not an entrepreneurial attitude...
The problem is not that upper management is making the wrong decision, it is that deciding whether or not singing four words is a copyright violation should not be a question in the first place. Any claim of copyright infringement for four words should be laughed out of court. I'm aware that this isn't the world we live in, but you can't blame me (or the rest of Techdirt) for being upset that it's not or wanting to change the world so that it is.
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It's all just ridiculous since people aren't going to watch the Comedy Central show instead of purchasing "We Are The World" and people aren't going to watch the Comedy Central show because the title for "We Are The World" was sung a bit. Its use is not infringing on anyone's ability to make money off of "We Are the World", nobody is profiting off of someone else's work, and it just shows how copyright strangles our shared culture.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
again, if he's not gaining any value from this particular song, why can't he pick any of the other billions of songs out there?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
It's a good thing copyrights protect artists who want to make with the jokes.
Kidding!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
Sorry, but that's the same kind of sophistry that "if you're doing no wrong you have nothing to fear" is made of. It's crap, because it completely avoids the issue at hand, which is that having to get a license for a comedian to sing four words of a song in his joke is batshit retarded....
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So what he's doing in fact is adding value to the song, not gaining from it...
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Re: Re: Re: only 1 song in the world?
What? For 4 words?
Gawd you copyright maximalists are greedy and dumb.
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Re:
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Fair use will only be used by the little guys. And they'll only be able to use it as a defense at trial. But they won't get a trial because there is no way a little company or person could possibility financially survive litigation against a company the size of Viacom or Disney.
Because the concept of fair use will not be addressed by trial courts, it will not be addressed by appellate courts. In a few decades the concept of fair use will be considered antiquated, out of date, and out of step of (what will be considered) modern copyright law.
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I don't know anyone in my generation who feels that copyright is good and great, aside from a few aspiring musicians who hope to have a hit song or two and not work the rest of their lives. Welfare seekers.
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You either do not get out much, or you are smoking a mind-altering substance.
Fair use is exercised on an incredibly regular basis by tons of people and organizations, many of them quite large. Mad Magazine may be the king of fair use parodies. The Onion and National Lampoon are more sources of parody. Even movies frequently use parody without paying for the source material (though you will note that when they make jokes about, for example, Disney, they will point out that Disney is trademarked in the credits).
Why did this one comedy club drop the line? Dunno. The line was CLEARLY used as parody, which falls under fair use. My guess is that the person reviewing the line either did not know what they were doing or they were overly cautious or there was some other reason that had nothing to do with copyright but they used copyright as an excuse (maybe the producer hates the song "We Are the World).
It just seems like there is a lot of to-do here because an entity that could have exercised fair use failed to do so and then claimed that that copyright made them do it. I feel like this whole thread is about ignorance.
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Not for the lawyers. Ever think an elite group of, say, LAWYERS, might have the power to put into place a system that actually enriches them? Nahhh...
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Re: Fair use
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So which is better:
Getting paid to have your song used in some way.
Allowing the song to be used for free in exchange for free advertising.
Not having the song used at all.
Does a TV series like "Glee" need to pay to use the songs they sing in show? Because most of the songs that appear in Glee, end up being best sellers on iTunes the next day.
The more I visit this site, the more pissed off I get about the ridiculousness of copyright.
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Would assume so, since malcome in the middle season 2 plus can't come out on DVD becuse it would cost to much to get the rights....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_in_the_Middle#DVD_Release
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As was MTV's case in the '90s, they had a blanket right to use a library of music for use on their shows. The State was able to use this library, but did not have rights for DVD distribution on those songs, and many of them had to be replaced with different tracks.
It's all just ridiculous since people aren't going to watch the Comedy Central show instead of purchasing "We Are The World" and people aren't going to watch the Comedy Central show because the title for "We Are The World" was sung a bit. Its use is not infringing on anyone's ability to make money off of "We Are the World", nobody is profiting off of someone else's work, and it just shows how copyright strangles our shared culture.
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Anyone else notice that MTV has started to finally issue more of the animated shows they did back when they were a music channel on dvd? The Maxx, The head, and in May Daria. Of course there is no telling how much music has been replaced by sound-a-likes or whatever because the orginal music rights owners felt that they were special snowflakes and should be paid more than they are worth.
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Seriously?
So screwed up.
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Isn't there an excemption for...
Or maybe Sumner Redstone is just being an asshole (big surprise there).
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Isn't there a running "8 notes
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Isn't there a running "8 notes" joke on songs...
So what's the problem here with 4 notes? Doesn't Viacom have hundreds of shows already playing up to 8 notes as an intro, etc.
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The Department of Redundancy Department wants to know why he told the joke three times.
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so shoot me
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Please send DMCA takedown notices to go@fuckyourself.com.
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Every 10 years.
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Heading?
Editor please! And BTW, who gives a shit?
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Exception for parody?
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If 2live crew's pretty woman can be protected as a parody by the supreme court, i fail to see how a comedian using 4 words from a song with NO instruments to back him up at all in that would be any issue that would need to be trifled with.
but of course, the real problem is, if Viacom does fight for fair use it would undermine any efforts down the road to clamp down on someone else using the same reasoning with something that they own the rights to. and we just couldnt have that could we now.
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boy you dont get it
so then lets end copyright for charity if you do it for cahrity then ITS PUBLIC DOMAIN 100% , that those guys having done that didn't shows you the real evil behind evreyhting they did. SICKENING. Berlin wall falls and they are making money off the suffering that went on. YUP another reason to get rid of copyright....
"WE ARE NOT ANTI-MIKE"
everybody now....
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it seems fairly obvious
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Was it Viacom filming, or is it a third party company? Perhaps the producer on scene decides it would be better to have both versions and allow Viacom upper management to choose which route they want to go. Rather than risking that the entire shoot is waste, just film an alternate version of that one piece, in case it needs to be replaced.
It isn't like there is a lawyer on scene making these choices right then and there, it is likely someone without the production pointed out that they didn't have a music performance license, and rather than risk having Viacom reject the episode, they decides to play it safe. It's sort of what happens when you have spent a crap load of money, have a live audience, and want to make sure you get a product you can use rather than flushing your money down the toity.
I wouldn't be shocked to see the singing version on the air, but I think the producers played it safe and played it right, they gave themselves options.
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You think thats bad? Just wait
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You think thats bad? Just wait
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Have you read any of the comments above? Depending on the situation, Judge Milian's use of the limited lyrics was either protected as parody, or the network she appeared on has a license to use such works. In either case, there is no infringement, just as it was likely there was no infringement by the comedian, only ignorance.
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we are the world
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we are the world
BUT I think the reason they're acting like such animals is because they are remaking "We Are The World", if some of you didn't know.
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