Venezuela Next Up To Try To Censor The Internet

from the good-luck,-hugo dept

Mon, Mar 15th 2010 4:13am — Mike Masnick

Having just criminalized video games the government doesn't like, it looks like Hugo Chavez is looking to have Venezuela be the next country to massively censor the internet.

"The Internet cannot be something open where anything is said and done. No, every country has to apply its own rules and norms,"

Of course, it seems that the "rules and norms" that Chavez wants are "no criticizing me."

"We have to act. We are going to ask the attorney general for help, because this is a crime. I have information that this page periodically publishes stories calling for a coup d'etat. That cannot be permitted,"

Notice the problem here. Chavez's real complaint is with an organization calling for a coup -- but his response is to suggest that special laws need to be placed on all internet communications. There's a disconnect there which doesn't make much sense. If you want to make it illegal to support the overthrow of the government, that's one thing -- but that's different than focusing on laws about the internet. The internet is just a communication mechanism.

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Filed Under: censorship, hugo chavez, venezuela

39 Comments

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Jeremy, 15 Mar 2010 @ 4:15am

Answer
I dont understadn why are thay trying to close freedome in Venezuella?
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Jeremy, 15 Mar 2010 @ 4:15am

Answer
I dont understadn why are thay trying to close freedome in Venezuella?
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paperbag (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 4:29am

nerd rage?
Sounds like this guy just lost in his favorite video game and went on a rage crying to people about it.

All this will do is add fuel to the fire, just like a takedown notice.
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Dementia (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 4:31am

Then perhaps you should do a little research on Hugo Chavez. He has essentially set himself up as the President for life. Until of course people like these are successful in calling for a coup d'etat.
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clearsam (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 5:03am

isn't this what Apple is relentlessly trying to accomplish in north america for years?
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 5:14am

Re:
That's kinda the point of the article. I don't know where this "do a little research" thing came from.

The guy who's running the show is trying to close down an avenue of communication to prevent a coup.
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Dementia (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 5:26am

Re: Re:
It was meant to be a reply to Jeremy in post #1. Monday morning, it's my excuse for not clicking the reply to post link.
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Planespotter (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 5:32am

Typical knee jerk reaction by government, either trying to keep their business partner donators happy or supressing the freedom of speech of their voters.

Ban the messenger, not the company that provided the paper he wrote the message on.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 6:11am

Re: Re:
"The guy who's running the show is trying to close down an avenue of communication to prevent a coup."

Given his history, particularly in having to fight off coups that may have had foreign involvement, you'd kind of have to expect him to be a bit paranoid...
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Rob, 15 Mar 2010 @ 6:18am

Chavez is an idiot
Hugo Chavez is a left wing communist idiot. His plan is to stop anyone or anything from criticizing him. So what does he do? Close radio and TV stations. His next target is the internet. You can't close that down but you sure can censor it. Just look at what China has done.
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Rob, 15 Mar 2010 @ 6:19am

Chavez is an idiot
Hugo Chavez is a left wing communist idiot. His plan is to stop anyone or anything from criticizing him. So what does he do? Close radio and TV stations. His next target is the internet. You can't close that down but you sure can censor it. Just look at what China has done.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2010 @ 6:35am

Re: Chavez is an idiot
I wish people would stop relating people like this to communism. They are not comunistic, they are dictators and despots. True communism is not bad, it is simply impossible with the human condition, that said, I still dislike it when people equate the two.
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John Fenderson (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 6:49am

Re: Chavez is an idiot
Actually, you can close down the internet. Doing so is no more difficult than shutting down radio or TV.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2010 @ 7:20am

Notice the problem here. Chavez's real complaint is with an organization calling for a coup -- but his response is to suggest that special laws need to be placed on all internet communications. There's a disconnect there which doesn't make much sense

yet there is total disconnect here about copyright and patent law. you find extreme examples and call for the whole system to be redone. total disconnect.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2010 @ 7:31am

Can anyone say c o m m u n i s m?
This is no knee jerk reaction or a simple ploy to stop a coup. This is all part of a very well orchestrated, years long plan to systematically enslave the population and maintain strong political control. Jeez! has no one connected this to a communist dictatorship yet? He is the Castro brothers' best friend and is proceding EXACTLY like Fidel Castro did in Cuba. Please read some history! Little by little civil liberties are reduced with some bullshit reason or another (safety, morals, etc.) People go along with it because they just see that particular law. If he goes too far and people complain he loosens the noose a bit. Probably in a few months he'll "cave in" and say something like "ok, well we're not monsters. we'll allow *some* violent video games as long as they get special permission from the comissioner of morality." Then everyone will say "see he's not so bad." But their civil liberties never made it back all the way.
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Dan, 15 Mar 2010 @ 7:32am

Hugo Chavez is a totalitarian with only the personal interest to remain in power. He is not even communist or socialist. Chavez does not worry about destroying his own country as long as he has the power. Over the past 11 year he has been wasting the money of what should have been a booming economy based on the high oil prices. Now an energy rich country even has power problems, and is proposing to have businesses close one day of the week to "save power". Chavez is just a total failure, and he wants to close any media or communication medium to avoid for the truth to be known.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 7:57am

Re: Re: Re:
That makes sense. I retract my statement.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 8:04am

Re: Can anyone say c o m m u n i s m?
I can see the feature creep you're talking about, but the history you've asked us to read suggests that the impetus for moves like this stems from previous coup attempts backed by foreign powers in Venezuela. That you connected Chavez to Castro actually strengthens the point.

In both cases you had the CIA and other US govt. organizations proactively attempting to overthrow standing governments via inside coups. One of our country's favored tactics to accomplish this is to inundate a foreign country's citizens with propoganda to enflame rebellion. What better way to accomplish this in modern times than a free and open worldwide internet? In the case of both Cuba and Venezuela, you had CIA agents actively involved with those taking arms against Castro/Chavez.

I'm not saying what he's doing is right, but understanding the historical context makes this action more understandable....
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2010 @ 8:23am

Re: Can anyone say c o m m u n i s m?
Little by little civil liberties are reduced with some bullshit reason or another (safety, morals, etc.) People go along with it because they just see that particular law.

Jee... why does this seem so familiar. Well, I am sure it is nothing. Let me send of an email I know that Carnivore will catch, then head over to a local flight and have my laptop and body searched on prodded before having to display my realID with all my data and get into a GPS enabled car so that I can pay proper road use tax.
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Irving, 15 Mar 2010 @ 8:28am

It's obviously...
... time for Mr. Chavez to go.
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Ryan, 15 Mar 2010 @ 8:33am

Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
True communism is not bad, it is simply impossible with the human condition

This is a meaningless statement. I could easily fly to the moon, except that it is impossible with gravity, lack of oxygen, and exposure to the elements.
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yogi, 15 Mar 2010 @ 8:43am

Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
"True communism is not bad"

Only someone who has never experienced communism can let such a sentence slip out of his mind.

I suggest you buy a ticket to your nearest communist, totalitarian country and tell us how great it us when you come back.

Yeah, right - you probably won't be able to come back.Not a lot of freedom in those communist countries.

Living in a communist country is like living in hell.
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Pixelation, 15 Mar 2010 @ 8:47am

Chavez is a f#@king loon.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 8:59am

Re: Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
"I suggest you buy a ticket to your nearest communist, totalitarian country and tell us how great it us when you come back."

You're missing his point. In the classical Marx/Lenin sense, there IS no communist country for him to "fly to". You were more correct in calling them totalitarian systems. A true communist society HAS no government or national expression, along with no class structure. In Marxist theory, a totalitarian government over the proliteriat is supposed to be the transition from monarcy/capitalism INTO communism. What nations like Venezuela and China are doing is essentially suspending that transition eternally in order to retain power.

In other words, States like China and Venezuela are every much the antithesis of Marxist theory that capitalism is....
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btr1701 (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 9:17am

Censorship
Amazing how the Left's first response to criticism is always censorship...
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btr1701 (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 9:19am

Re:
> isn't this what Apple is relentlessly trying
> to accomplish in north america for years?

Umm... no.
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 9:19am

Re: Re: Re:
No idea why, he seems to be quite fond of coups himself.
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yogi, 15 Mar 2010 @ 9:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
Yes I understand that.I am familiar with the theory. I just don't think it is a coincidence that such a transition has never occurred.

anyway, the problem is that thanks to the USSR (and china), communism has become synonymous with totalitarian rule,poverty, mediocrity and terror against the civilian population.Tens of millions have been murdered in the name of Communism.

The communism you are talking about exists in a small number of books and most people have not read them. For most, communism is what happened in Russia and that's what we have to refer to when using the term in public discourse.
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Anonymous, 15 Mar 2010 @ 9:34am

Re: Re: Can anyone say c o m m u n i s m?
He first tried to use a coup (1992) to take over the government when he was a Colonel in the army. He then was elected and nationalized massive swathes of his countries industries. This pissed off a lot of rich and powerful Venezuelans. There was a Coup. The US refused to recognize the new government (At which time he was either in custody of the Coup) and the Coup fell apart.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 9:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
Ah, I see we agree more than we disagree. However, it should be noted that true Marx Communism HAS in fact been implemented and practiced successfully. It's just that it's only been done on such a small scale that no hears about it.

Several Inuit tribes in northern Canda, for example, operate without recognizing the Canadian govt. as their own, and have implemented communism with fair success.

Bottom line, as was stated before, communism is a pipe dream when attempted on any scale in line with the size of modern statehood...
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Dark Helmet (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 10:00am

Re: Re: Re: Can anyone say c o m m u n i s m?
Actually, if memory serves, the US was one of two nations that DID recognize the new govt. that resulted from the coup, which is the primary reason for most of the animosity that now exists between the two countries. They backed down eventually, when the rest of the world told them they were crazy.

Another part of the problem is that the rebels met with the US govt. at the White House prior to the coup attempt coupled with the assertion that CIA agents were on hand during the coup directing the rebels....
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yogi, 15 Mar 2010 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
Interesting - I haven't heard about that - any links that you think might be interesting are welcome.

What about the Israeli kibbutzim?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 15 Mar 2010 @ 10:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
http://www.ia.gl/: A site for the political party of Greenland Inuits. They no longer consider themselves to be a "communist" party, though several tribes in their constituency practiced commune ownership of pretty much everything, including land/food/etc.

I'll try to find more, but it's kind of tough because half of these tribes have probably never HEARD of the word "communism", they just happen to practice it. Most would refer to their structure as "tribalism", although many argue that tribalism is simply a primitive form of communism (though I would argue that's exactly what REAL communism is SUPPOSED to be)!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism

From what I understand of the Kibbutz society in Israel, they haven't practiced as a true commune since the Brittish Mandate. In fact, I seem to remember that when they moved from agriculture to technology, they privatized pretty much everything, which would be the antithesis of the communal or tribal structure.
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yogi, 15 Mar 2010 @ 10:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
Interesting - I haven't heard about that - any links that you think might be interesting are welcome.

What about the Israeli kibbutzim?
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yogi, 15 Mar 2010 @ 11:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chavez is an idiot
Ok, thanks.

Privatization on kibbutzim started in earnest in the 1990s. But it is true that throughout their history there were varying degrees of communality. For instance, a very big issue was made over allowing kids to sleep with their families at night or keeping them in a communal boarding house for all kids.

I agree that real communism is supposed to be like tribalism. except that sophisticated, very aware and developed (and cynical, scarred) modern people cannot revert back to the original tribalism. Communism was supposed to do that but Marx's (and Engle's) understanding of the human psyche turned out to be pretty poor...
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Anonymous, 15 Mar 2010 @ 5:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can anyone say c o m m u n i s m?
The US did not recognize the new government. They recognized that a change in leadership had taken place. They threaten strong sanctions against the Coup government. There has been no proof given that the CIA was involved. It is true a group opposed to Chavez, met with Bush administration officials a couple of weeks before the Coup. This was investigated by the US inspector general who found no wrongdoing.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2010 @ 6:58pm

Re:
The copyright and patent laws do need to be redone or, better yet, eliminated because the whole system itself is a scam.

as for extreme examples, IP hindering progress is the RULE, not the exception. As I already noted, we can come up with more examples of bad patents than you can come up with examples of good patents. There is little to no evidence that IP helps innovation and plenty of evidence suggesting the opposite. The harm IP causes to society isn't the exception, it is the RULE.
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Carol Cline, 24 Aug 2010 @ 1:52pm

This is stupid...
Like china before them the internet should have laws but be free and open.
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Sarah, 5 Nov 2011 @ 2:44am

Intense
WOW! This discussion is pretty intense..
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