Is A Captcha DRM? Craigslist Wins Default Judgment Claiming Yes

from the uh-oh... dept

Tue, Mar 23rd 2010 4:54am — Mike Masnick

Last year, we wrote about a troubling set of lawsuits filed by Craigslist that seemed very dangerous, as it was pushing the boundaries on a series of legal concepts, all of which could come back to haunt Craigslist (and others) at a later date. For example, we noted that there was a "weak" DMCA claim that said that the captchas used by Craigslist to get people to prove they were human were actually "technological protection measures," and circumventing them violated the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA. While it's not the same lawsuit (apparently Craigslist had filed even more such lawsuits), Ray Dowd has the details of Craigslist winning a default judgment in a similar lawsuit after the company sued didn't bother to defend itself. This is why the concept of default judgments always concerns me. Now we have a ruling on the books that finds captchas are like DRM, and getting around them even if for perfectly legal purposes (can't read 'em?) may count as violating the DMCA.

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Filed Under: captcha, dmca, drm, tpm
Companies: craigslist

15 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 23 Mar 2010 @ 5:00am

default judgements dont make caselaw.
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Txknight (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 5:35am

true, but it does give them ammo to fire at others to bolster their case, until a case actually gets tried and a real precedence set
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WammerJammer (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 5:37am

Craigslist
Another one bites the dust. Craigslist was a great service. But you know the history of computers is if you sue you eventually will die. Look at Lotus (remember them) sued over their dropdown menus and voila no more Lotus and lots of dropdown menus. Maybe Craigslist wants to be owned by IBM like Lotus is.
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R. Miles (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 6:09am

Oh, good grief.
Captchas are the dumbest things I've ever seen implemented as a "security" measure. If a site's that concerned over spam posts, then maybe it shouldn't offer the option.

Yes, this includes Craigslist. It's not as though spam posts aren't included with the captcha anyway.

I enjoyed the "can't read them" remark, given so many are designed so badly (to circumvent scripts which can read them) they're more annoying than they are helpful, especially with those few sites which cancel the request after two-three failed attempts.

It could be worse, I guess. They could all be Flash based.
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yozoo, 23 Mar 2010 @ 6:27am

DMCA is perfect
The CAPTCHA thing seems like a perfect use of the DMCA to me. Of course the fact that the DMCA is the perfect tool for something like this helps prove how FUBAR it is, but it doesnt change the fact that this appears to be exactly the type of thing it was created for.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Mar 2010 @ 6:28am

Re: Craigslist
Strange I could swear Microsoft has filed a few lawsuits . . . they seem to be doing ok?
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zenith (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 6:31am

Talk about a misnomer...
Digital Rights Management... er...

Captacha is not;

Digitial - it uses analog eyeballs as the determinating factor, and the analog human fingers as a converter to digital (via keyboard).

Rights - being identified as human via capcha does not award a "right", in the sense that a Gorilla that passes as capcha doesn't award them the "rights" of being identified as a "human".

Management - not managed in any sense, but totally on-the-fly.
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shmengie (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 6:40am

Re:
"default judgements dont make caselaw."

that's not how you spell "coleslaw."

(actually, that's not how to spell, "judgments" or, "don't").

spelling nazi ftw!
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Dark Helmet (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 6:43am

Re: Re:
"spelling nazi ftw!"

Mmmmm, coleslaw. So easy to make, and so so tasty...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Mar 2010 @ 7:41am

Cole's Law
Thinly sliced cabbage.
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Jason Buberel (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 8:23am

Re: Craigslist
Same goes for those epic failures, Apple and Intel :)

While I do agree that in some cases, litigation can be an indicator of desperation, Craigslist.com is by no means desperate or failing.
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Jason Buberel (profile), 23 Mar 2010 @ 8:31am

Re: Talk about a misnomer...
I disagree about the inapplicability of the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions to CAPTACHA.

The anti-circumvention clause of the DMCA was intended to criminalize attempts to remove or bypass any security scheme from a digital product in order to gain unlawful access to a product.

This has been applied to the reverse engineering of hardware and software in the last few years. Although originally intended to protect entertainment media (music, movies, books), there is no reason the protections could not in principle be extended to a service such as Craigslist.com.

Or so I think. But I am not a lawyer.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Mar 2010 @ 12:23am

"Ray Dowd has the details of Craigslist winning a default judgment in a similar lawsuit after the company sued didn't bother to defend itself. This is why the concept of default judgments always concerns me."

You get sued and can't be bothered defending yourself, right or wrong, you fucking deserve what you get. If the concept of default judgments didn't exist, you could sue someone, they tell you to go fuck yourself, don't show up in court, then what? You chase them until you run out of money?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Mar 2010 @ 10:05pm

Re:
You get sued and can't be bothered defending yourself, right or wrong, you fucking deserve what you get.

You get sued and can't afford to defend yourself, right or wrong, you fucking deserve what you get. (I can't stand poor people, unless they're mowing my lawn or washing my car or something like that.)
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Baran, 25 Mar 2010 @ 2:22pm

N.Y. process server charged in fraud case
You can always Vacate a judgment on the grounds of improper service. In fact process company who served Naturemarket Inc, is under investigation.

Source:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/04/14/NY-process-server-charged-in-fra ud-case/UPI-37261239727139/
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