Cop-Rating Website Is Protected By The First Amendment
from the and-that's-a-good-thing dept
A couple years ago, we wrote about the controversy surrounding the website RateMyCop.com, which (as the name implies) let's people "rate" their local police officers. While police around the country were "outraged" by this, we noted that police accountability seems like a good thing. While some complaints resulted in the site's registrar temporarily taking the site offline, a more troubling situation developed later in Florida, where a user of the site was arrested, after he posted information (anonymously) about a police officer who he felt did not do a good job. The authorities issued a subpoena to find out who the commenter was, and charged him under a Florida law that forbids "publishing name and address of law enforcement officer."While the case was dropped for procedural reasons, the guy sued, noting that the arrest and the law went against his First Amendment rights. Thankfully, a judge has agreed, saying that just publishing such information is protected speech:
The judge ruled the First Amendment does not protect "true threats, fighting words, incitements to imminent lawless action, and classes of lewd and obscene speech." But publishing an officer's phone number and address, he said, "is not in itself a threat or serious expression of an intent to commit an unlawful act of violence."You can read the full ruling below, but it's nice to see a judge note that just because some information can be used for bad purposes, doesn't mean it's okay to prohibit that kind of speech.
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Filed Under: free speech, ratings
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Re: Senshikaze
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amirite?
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And you know this WILL happen how?
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> > least not-bad) that will be reported as bad."
> And you know this WILL happen how?
Human nature and basic psychology.
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Regardless, preventing someone from speaking out about a police officer because you fear there may be other officers unfairly smeared by the tool is just an easy excuse to limit free speech.
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; P
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Not all cops are corrupt, by the way.
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Very true. Most cops aren't corrupt, but there have been enough bad ones to give the impression that they feel like they're all above the very laws they are supposed to be enforcing. I have friends who are cops in both small and large cities and I know that as a group they take a lot of crap.
Again, the information that he put out there was already publicly available. Anyone who wants to hurt a cop or his/her family would be able to find the information without much work anyway.
I agree that an officer's family should never be put in harm's way, but stifling free speech is not the way to do it.
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But the vast, vast majority are. While they're not all "the worst of the worst", I've personally known several and not a one of them, for example, would ticket a "brother" for the same kind of minor traffic offense that they would an average citizen. And every last one of them would turn a blind eye to another cop's abuse of power. That's corruption and I've never met one who wasn't afflicted by it, even my cop friends.
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Perhaps we should have free speech when it comes to issues of ones profession (ie: if you're a bad cop, if you're a bad doctor, etc...) but not issues of one personal lives (ie: The address of a cop or doctor, social security number, phone number, perhaps if they're not the best mother? Medical information of the cop, etc...).
Also, I do agree that posting a cops address can put them and their family in danger. I hear that whenever cops are a a restaurant or someplace similar, for example, they tend to avoid window seats in fear of getting shot. Of course if someone really hated a cop in particular and they were determined to figure out where that cop lives, I'm sure that they could figure it out regardless and no law will stop them.
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I'm sorry, I simply can't agree. What if you posted where the cop worked? Where he eats dinner? Where he plays basketball? (Hang on, it's about to get tricky) What if you posted his next door neighbor's address and said the cop lived one even number higher?
The judge ruled correctly. The address of this officer in and of itself is not a threat and since no law was broken by finding out the address, printing it in a comment (or, I suppose, anywhere else) is not illegal.
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Where in the constitution was that authority listed? I think the "SHALL MAKE NO LAW" part is pretty clear
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Umm, that's a judge's job.
Where in the constitution was that authority listed? I think the "SHALL MAKE NO LAW" part is pretty clear
Seriously? It sounds like you've never actually read the US Constitution if you aren't aware of the authority granted by it to the judicial branch.
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City of Tallahassee??
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How about punishing the criminals?
Besides, a cop is better equiped to handle a violent criminal who would do them harm than most other people would be.
Remember that nutjob in Seattle last year who killed all those cops at that restaurant? He didn't need to know where they lived to kill them, so if someone makes the decision to kill a particular cop or just random ones, he'll find a way to do it, with or without an address posted on a website's comments.
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True. Some are merely stupid.
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To me, that just comes a little to close to "inducement". And what relevance does the address have to the complaint? Usually zero.
To say "Officer George Bailey of Pottersville treated me poorly at a roadside stop as follows....." seems like a fair and legal police comportment review site comment. But to include his home address makes it personal.
Same goes here on the blog. Anybody that I get in an argument with here at Techdirt could easily look up my home address. It's seldom hard to find. But if somebody flamed me and put in my home address, I would take that as a threat to my family. It rings of the menacing, "We know where you live."
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Free speech != popular speech. :)
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I suppose you're opposed to sex offender registries as well then.
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And in the case of the registered offenders, I'll note that they don't provide addresses on the registries I've searched, just vague "near here" dots on a map.
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Did you not write "...I don't EVER like when a rating site, rant, complaint, or whatever includes the acusee's home address", or was that another Derek Kerton?
Instead, I would choose to discuss each of those cases separately, which sounds like common sense.
Yes, I imagine you would as it would make your previous "EVER" statement look less idiotic. Sorry, you already wrote it.
And in the case of the registered offenders, I'll note that they don't provide addresses on the registries I've searched, just vague "near here" dots on a map.
And I'll note that you seem to be pretty ignorant of the situation. The ones I've seen give the person's full name, known aliases, date of birth, convictions (with dates), photograph/mugshot, and full addresses. That doesn't seem very "vague" to me.
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I suppose I actually can understand the ambiguity, but I don't see a court-confirmed list of CONVICTED sexual predators as the same thing as a rating, rant, or complaint site against ACCUSED bad cops. And only part of it is that whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept.
"make your previous "EVER" statement look less idiotic. Sorry"
Damn. You are very angry. I wonder why. I mean, it's not like I was even talking in absolutes. I think this subject is a lot like porn, in that what is "right" is hard to nail down, and is in the eye of the beholder. I mean, I wrote my three points in about as subjective a way as I could "to me...come close...usually...seems like...I would choose...sounds like common sense". There are valid arguments on both sides of the sexual offender directory issue. I, personally, don't think there are as many valid arguments FOR listing the addresses of cops on a cop review site. Does that really make you so angry?
The idea behind listing the convicts is that their presence might actually statistically increase you family's risk to sex crime if you live nearby. I don't see living a few doors down from a jerk cop as similarly dangerous. I also believe that convicts merit some occasionally different treatment. For example, citizens in the US are "free", but convicts are sometimes put in jail. I am OK with a measured amount of this inequity, if justly administered. You, apparently, don't find that to be common sense. Fair enough.
"And I'll note that you seem to be pretty ignorant...full addresses"
Wow. Still so angry. Listen, bro. I never claimed to be an expert on Registries, you're the one who inserted that into the thread. In fact, I stated the limitation of my knowledge as "they don't provide addresses on the registries I've searched". I limited my claim to my experience about the registries, since I'm not a fucktard who talks out of his depth.
I'm in CA, and here, http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/ is the operative law. It basically splits our opinions, offering addresses for about half of the offenders, and about half not.
So, my points are:
- I don't see sex offender listings in the same light as cop review sites.
- I see high relevance for citizens knowing the address of the sex offenders, but low relevance for the cop review site.
- I see free speech (disclosing the address) as an opposing force, and thus cannot speak in absolutes
- the sex offender registries hide the addresses of many of the convicts, yet the same obscurity is not offered the cop in the original post.
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Shouldn't that apply to everyone then? Shouldn't phone books be illegal? It's only "common sense"!
It's a matter of common sense for the safety of the officer and his family.
"Police officer" is far from the most dangerous occupation in America. In fact, it doesn't even rank in the top 10.
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Heh, way to prove you don't know what you're talking about. My local police dept DOES post arrest records and I've never know of one that didn't, either.
Where does it stop.
When you stop worshiping cops.
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thanks to cops who arent shady
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