Warner Bros. So Distraught Over Losing Superman Rights, It Personally Sues The Lawyer Who Won
from the getting-a-bit-personal dept
We've covered the ongoing fight over copyright termination rights lately, as it's quickly becoming a big deal. While the whole concept shows part of how messed up copyright law has become, one element included to help artists (rather than just big companies) when copyright terms were extended, were opportunities for the original artists or their estates to "terminate" the assignment of copyright to a company. The details are highly technical and a bit of a mess, and the entertainment industry has worked hard for years to try to bury termination rights (most famously when the RIAA had a Congressional staffer -- who was hired just months later to a high-paying RIAA job -- slip some text into a bill in the middle of the night that took termination rights away from musicians, until musicians freaked out and Congress backtracked). Even so, the big entertainment industry companies have been fighting against every attempt at artists or their estates reclaiming their copyrights for years. The most famous case was the case over Superman's rights -- which concluded last year with the estate of Jerry Siegel winning back certain rights (while letting Warner retain other Superman-related rights).The lawyer who represented the Siegel estate, Marc Toberoff, has been pushing content creators and their estates to understand (and make use of) termination rights for a long time. And it's no surprise that we're now seeing new efforts under way from musicians and others, including comic book artist Jack Kirby. Kirby, not surprisingly, is also represented by Toberoff, who isn't just representing these artists in helping them get back their copyrights, but he's apparently set up his own production studio to help make use of those copyrights once he helps the artists get them back.
Apparently, Warner Bros. (a frequent target of Toberoff) has had enough and has decided to sue Toberoff personally, claiming that... well... basically that he's a jerk and a savvy business person, which I didn't quite realize was illegal. Specifically, they seem to be claiming that Toberoff "manipulated" the creators of Superman, having them hand over a large percentage of the rights to the character if he was able to successfully manage the termination. Part of Warner's complaint is that Siegel and Shuster had apparently signed agreements promising not to exercise their termination rights, but as I'm sure Warner's lawyers know (they must know this, right?), you cannot contractually give up your termination rights, or all entertainment industry companies would require that in their standard contract.
Frankly, reading through the complaint -- which you can read below -- it looks like Warner is attempting to retry the Superman termination rights case that it already lost:
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Filed Under: copyright, hollywood, marc toberoff, movies, superman, termination rights
Companies: warner bros.
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i am shocked and outraged
beaches and shores
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Never Quit, Never Surrender!
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A link for this would have been nice-- Id like to learn more about that and it sounds like an existing story.
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Re:
The Satellite Home Viewer Improvement act of 1999, staffer added a "Technical Correction" which pretty much redefined work for hire.
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Question
I can think of numerous cases where you've railed that heirs shouldn't have right in the intelectual property created by their ancestors. Yeah, it sucks that Superman isn't in the public domain and we all hate big media controlling our cultural icons, but I think you need to pick a side here. WB purchased the rights. They'll expire eventually (hopefully, unless Congress changes the laws again). At that point the public benefits. What good does it serve to allow heirs to terminate contractual rights?
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Re: Question
The public and the talent should come first.
It is also useful to reduce the size and power of entrenched cartels. Monopoly ant hills need to be knocked over.
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Re: Re: Question
The reason the story is interesting isn't that we think one side is right. It's just extremely amusing to see the tables turned.
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Re: Re: Question
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Re: Re: Re: Question
I partially agree with you. A lot of the Superman character was developed by other writers and talent at DC after 1946, but it was in 1947 that Siegel and Shuster tried to reclaim their work. If it had been granted to them then none of this would have been an issue, but the character was already popular enough at the time that DC didn't want to let go.
It's the act of denying the creator his work that entitles the heirs to be compensated. That's a moral judgement btw as I have no idea if it's legal. There is so much dirty dealing by corporations when it comes to copyrights that it's more than likely that this was a case of a company bullying an artist back in '47.
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Re: Re: Question
Half right.
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Re: Question
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Re: Re: Question
Superman is a part of our shared culture and culture isn't supposed to work this way.
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Re: Re: Re: Question
Newer comics are less likely to be reprinted due to similar contractual obligations that were created after Seigel and Shuster were granted compensation when Superman: the Motion Picture embarrassed Time Warner into paying S&S something for their creation.
Mickey could have been endangered but Superman and Batman had been continuously produced since their creation.
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Re: Question
Hence my statement that I am not in favor of termination rights.
I'm not sure what contradiction you're seeing in my stance?
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What a joke...
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One thing
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Did I read that right?
If I read page 2, lines 8 - 17 it would seem to be saying that the creators of Superman never once sought to terminate the copyright.
Page 13, lines 16 - 23 clearly states that the creators went to court and fought for their copyrights back in 1947.
Warner Bros. makes an excellent point about having a lot to do with the development of Superman in to the icon he is today, but it's clear that the creators of Superman did step in to reclaim their character within 9 years of their agreement with DC Comics.
The claim that the creators were paid millions of dollars for their work (in adjusted dollars) is a bit of a stretch. It would appear that this lawsuit is just sour grapes. Warner Bros should hope that the judge doesn't actually read that document.
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Logic
IE: OJ was found not guilty so then by Warner Bros logic the victims family could also sue OJ's lawyer in a wrongful death suit because OJ's lawyers got him off?
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The good the bad and the warner brothers
Cause then they the hollywood morons will go for real crazy crap , stuff the public won't tolerate and then enter the politicians that will be forced to say ENOUGH.
LOOK at britain now, on verge of repealing the digital economy act. what OBAMA needs to understand is ACTA only benefits largely his own country and that the rest fo the world can and will do fine without the US of A.
NOW on the reverse its illegal in canada for a plaintiff for suing a defendants lawyer. Again why? Cause if there is risk to defend people no one defends you and the rule of law is not only destroyed but then you get a breakdown.
AND jsut what has warner brothers done with superman in the last 5 years.....
Smallville? funny and sad. IT needs a migration fast to add batman and then head right into justice league stuff and if who ever owns batman can't see the audience value in that , then they too should lose rights.
SEE this is further proof that current copyrights are stifling innovation of NEW works and it only creates GREEDY LAZY big label COPYRIGHT TROLLS
COPYRIGHT TROLLS like PATENT TROLLS hoard them and use them to snuff you me and everyone out of enjoyment of whatever.
THIS HAS TO END IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE ECONOMY RECOVER
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Re: The good the bad and the warner brothers
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Canada 50 year copyright
cause my bet is a lot of the works are older then 50 years.
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I cann't help but wonder...
While I don't think that any of the parties in this suit are squeaky clean, I hope that someone like Toberoff would be stopped from taking unfair advantage of people. I found it very interesting that the suit specifically only seeks attorney fees from Toberoff and none of the other parties.
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@16 - make superman films in canada ( 50 year copyright over for superman)
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Re: @16 - make superman films in canada ( 50 year copyright over for superman)
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Re: Re: @16 - make superman films in canada ( 50 year copyright over for superman)
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@17
and when you do that in writing it to show emphasis , or did you forget highschool?
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I cann't help but wonder...
While I don't think that any of the parties in this suit are squeaky clean, I hope that someone like Toberoff would be stopped from taking unfair advantage of people. I found it very interesting that the suit specifically only seeks attorney fees from Toberoff and none of the other parties.
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Toberoff lawsuit
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Copyright itself is obsolete
I think copyright should be modest, maybe 5 years, after which it falls into the public domain. There is no sense in locking ideas away behind a paywall long after the novelty has worn off. There is no competitive edge when the enemy is your own community.
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Life, no less, no more.
If the novelty wore off, people wouldn't still write about the character would they?
No, copyright should last as long as the author lives...no less, or more, imho.
Under your proposal, any hollywood studio wanting to make a film of a book wouldn't have to pay the author.
They would just wait 5 years.
(and given the time it takes to make a film anyway, thats hardly anything lost to them).
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Copyright
Not Jerry Siegel. He created an alien who could jump further than a normal human being and who was stronger. Everything that happened to shape and create the mythology of Superman as we know the character today, was done on DC and Warner Brothers' dime - if the fucking creator doesnt like the deal he's given when selling his work, he shouldnt accept it.
Sorry, but if you're going to get something out there, it's gonna happen through a strong corporation - not drawing in your room, in 1935. No fame, no nothing would've come from that - DC is why Siegel and Shuster are known names today, and I agree that DC could've given them a bone, it would've been the right thing to do, but no way will I sympathise with Siegels frail attempt to get the rights to a character, after their employer spent millions building the brand.
Stan Lee gets a million a year from Marvel - wondering why Siegel and Shuster never got a similar deal. That irks me, but what the hell.
You create something, you sell it, the owner owns it. Period. Whether that owner is a legal entity like a corporation or a human being doesnt fucking matter. You don't have a human right to fuck around with other peoples intellectual property. Licence it from the owner or come up with an original thought and fuck around with that instead.
oy vey!
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I think
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