Tons Of Companies Sued Over Broad Patent On Controlling Workstations In A Computer Network
from the sue,-sue,-sue,-sue dept
As we keep waiting for a Supreme Court ruling in the Bilski case (any day now...), Glyn Moody points us to the news of a lawsuit that has been filed against 26 different software companies for violating an incredibly broad patent (5,832,511) on "Workgroup network manager for controlling the operation of workstations within the computer network" (say that 10 times fast). The list of companies sued is a who's who in software:Apple, Activision, Adobe, Autodesk, Capcom, Citrix, Corel, Dassault, Delcam, Square Enix, Electronic Arts, Frontrange Solutions, IBM, Intuit, Konami, Digital Entertainment, Maximizer Software, Nuance, Parametric Technology, Sage Software, Sega, Skype, SPSS, Teradata, THQ and Legacy InteractiveI'm sure none of those companies could have possibly come up with a system for controlling the operation of workstations within a computer network without this patent. At some point, isn't the fact that such a vast number of companies appear to have come up with the same basic thing independently a perfect prima facie case of obviousness?
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Filed Under: patent, remote computers, workstations
Companies: activision, adobe, apple, autodesk, citrix, corel, ea, ibm, intuit, konami, nuance, sega, skype, spss, square enix, teradata
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There needs to be a time limit set on this crap. Use the patent, or forfeit the license for that work. You don't get to wait ten years and rake in billions of dollars using ambush tactics.
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Re:
Actually you have 20 years.
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Re: Re:
Perhaps if illegally using Intellectual Property is considered stealing, then the doctrine of adverse possession should also apply.
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Hmmm, filed on 3rd Nov 1998
It should hopefully die quite quickly.
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Re: Hmmm, filed on 3rd Nov 1998
Doesn't change the prior art, though.
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Re: Re: Hmmm, filed on 3rd Nov 1998
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Re: Hmmm, filed on 3rd Nov 1998
In 1995, this was a somewhat innovative plan, but hardly something that was due patent protection.
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I'm sorry but your shell script is a patent violation.
Something in Unix or Novell probably already did this sort of thing in 1995.
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Who is missing from this list?
Hint: 500 lb gorilla
Also, why was this not filed in E Texas?
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Re:
Either MS have already paid them off or they have a patent that is similar enough to cover them
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"Workgroup network manager for controlling the operation of workstations within the computer network"
That right there makes it sound like they are talking about programs that specifically control the end machine. You know like being able to remote in, and control what processes/applications/etc... run on a given machine in the collective.
Like I said maybe I am not getting it.
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"Workgroup network manager for controlling the operation of workstations within the computer network"
That right there makes it sound like they are talking about programs that specifically control the end machine. You know like being able to remote in, and control what processes/applications/etc... run on a given machine in the collective.
Like I said maybe I am not getting it.
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Not just MS missing, what about Novell
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Re: Not just MS missing, what about Novell
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a shilling we go
Who says they came up with the invention independently? All that tells you is that they're good at following others.
Time and again you prove you know nothing about patents or patent law. PLEASE write about something else!
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broad patent clobbers large companies
Further Masnick, please explain why these poor benighted companies having independently invented the method in question didn't each file their own patents? Certainly if IBM invented it, they would have rushed to have patented it, perhaps they all applied for patents and learned about the invention (it is not a new patent) and then kept quiet. Of course they are not talking to us or to you Masnick.
IBM collects hundreds of millions every year in patent royalties, is that all right with you? Its only when the little guy might be paid for his inventive contribution that you cry out "injustice".
Definition of Masnick - an apologist for big money and hypocrisy.
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Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
This article appears to be premised on the assumption that each of the name defendants came upon the "invention" wholly independently. This is an assumption that at this time does not appear to have evidentiary support.
Given the general thrust of the claimed inventions (each claim is a patent is deemed separate and distict from all other claims), it seems a bit of a stretch to immediately assume independent invention is presented here.
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Re: Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
Oh really. Are you honestly suggesting that all of these companies found this patent from a no name company and used it to create their own, very different, solutions?
That would seem rather unlikely, don't you think?
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Re: Re: Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
The same may very well hold true in this instance. While not beyond the realm of possibility, I have to wonder if some of the listed companies have the in-house capability to develop and implement network control systems and methodologies of the type described and claimed in the patent. EA? Sega? Corel? Nuance? Intuit? Skype. Etc.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
Simple point is, you're not talking about transmissions, you're talking about something so much more broad it is hard to even make an analogy to cars... something akin to 'method to make car move without using feet'.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
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Re: Re: Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
Yes ! !
Patents are crucial for small companies to protect their development expenditures.
Ronald J. Riley,
I am speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
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Re: Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
Oh, right, you have none. Vague insinuations are much more effective than evidence, though, right?
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Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
I have gone after IBM multiple times for its own patent practices. Why you ignore that, I have no idea. In fact, at times I have been quite harsh when talking about IBM's patent practices.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20061023/105908.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articl es/20090108/0230453331.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100406/1628178904.shtml
http://www .techdirt.com/articles/20090914/0259236178.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091216/18064573 91.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20071021/141623.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/2 0080806/1909201916.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20071226/112149.shtml
http://www.techdir t.com/articles/20091230/0957277551.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080313/221036.shtml
ht tp://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080416/232750.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20081231/1222 003266.shtml
And that's just the first dozen I found in a quick Google search.
My position on patents has nothing to do with small or large companies. In fact, I have said many times that I believe big companies are definitely bigger abusers of the system than small companies. So I really don't know where your claim is coming from.
However, given your past commenting practices on this site, I assume you will not reply. Vic Kley and "staff" seem to show up, post a single derogatory comment based on zero facts, and then never return when I respond. They're not here to discuss the points.
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Re: broad patent clobbers large companies
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Ummm...
Isn't a "workstation" by definition a computer terminal that is able to be accessed, and thereby "controlled" via a network, since without that network, it would be a PC? I believe the structure is something like:
Mainframe---> Multiple workstations
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independent invention is no defense
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Re: independent invention is no defense
I know. We've discussed this before. I'm just pointing out how *stupid* it is that independent invention isn't a defense.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091123/0210287050.shtml
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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wait 10 years, or 20 years
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large number of infringers NOT EQUAL TO obviousness
First a large number of alleged infringers is does not mean that the patent is obvious. It could mean many things not germane to this comment.
In patent law, a finding obviousness generally requires prior art, the operative term being "prior." See 35 U.S.C. §§ 102 and 103, and associated case law for elaboration on prior art.
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Re: large number of infringers NOT EQUAL TO obviousness
In patent law, a finding obviousness generally requires prior art, the operative term being "prior." See 35 U.S.C. §§ 102 and 103, and associated case law for elaboration on prior art.
Yes, I know. And as I have pointed out for years, this is a major PROBLEM with patent law that I was trying to highlight with this post. The patent system is supposed to only allow patents on inventions that are new AND non-obvious to those skilled in the art.
However, for years, they only paid attention to the "new" part. Prior art tells you what's new. It does not tell you what's non-obvious. I believe that multiple independent inventors should be seen as prima facie evidence of non-obviousness. I know that's not the law. I'm saying it should be.
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Re: Re: large number of infringers NOT EQUAL TO obviousness
If you insist that multiple independent inventors should be evidence that a patent was obvious, even if the patent was issued, hypothetically 10 years ago, and the multiple independent inventions happened today, then it is likely that every patent in the system can be invalidated, simply by the existence of a large number of indepedent inventors after the patent was filed. In my opinion, this would be POST ART, not prior art, and is not the way any patent system in the world works.
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TechDIRT Ignorance
Ronald J. Riley,
I am speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
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Re: TechDIRT Ignorance
Please tell us what it is that we are ignorant of? We'd honestly like to understand why patent law is so screwed up, especially when it comes to a company that sits on a patent for more than ten years and doesn't make a peep and then threatens lawsuits against a who's who in the computer industry for a vague patent, and maybe you as an insider could enlighten us.
Of course, if it is that obvious that no one associated with TechDIRT understands anything about patent law, that says a lot about you, since you are associated with TechDIRT.
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Re: Re: TechDIRT Ignorance
Ronald J. Willy does not discuss details.
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Re: Re: Re: TechDIRT Ignorance
Apparently it is a fight club sort of arrangement among patent lawyers. Never talk about the details because if you talk about the details, someone might realize that there aren't any details and that the whole thing is some sort of fabrication in someone's head because they burned their own apartment down. I get it.
Hopefully sooner or later the governments of the world will get it and sanity will be restored, and these guys will have to go back to being used car salesmen and funeral directors.
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Re: TechDIRT Ignorance
Maybe you should add your trolling credentials next time, to make sure the signature is always the most substantial portion of any comment you make.
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If that's the case, bravo!
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Software patents
While I continue to feel that the only solution is campaign
finance reform (and public funding of the USPTO) to solve
the IP mess we are in, I do agree that we need to screen out
predatory patents - perhaps a review board to prevent such
garbage from being issued?
I continue to believe that IP as intended by the founding fathers is a good thing - though I am told it is a dying branch of the system, except for me and a few other highly ethical people - but IP as we now have it, generally, is horrible!
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