Down Goes Another One: Spanish Appeals Court Rules Against Movie Studio Lawsuit Against File Sharing Site

from the how-many-times? dept

Thu, Jun 24th 2010 6:12pm — Mike Masnick

These days it seems like we're hearing about these sorts of rulings every other week or so. Once again, in Spain, a court has made it clear that under the law, it does not make sense to blame a file sharing site for the actions of its users. The entertainment industry and its supporters keep trying to paint these rulings as meaning Spain has no respect for copyright law, but the details suggest something else entirely: Spain has tremendous respect for the rule of law and properly applying liability. The issue is not that Spain doesn't respect copyright laws, but that it properly recognizes that you don't blame the tool provider for the actions of its users -- something that the US courts haven't quite figured out yet.

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Filed Under: copyright, file sharing, spain

38 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 6:15pm

spain. enough said.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 6:22pm
  
  Re:
  tam. enough said.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 7:07pm
  
  Re:
  Really? It was in Spain? I couldn't tell. Thanks TAM!
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 7:56pm
  
  Re:
  If anyone is wondering how you argue like a moron . . . .
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 8:23pm
  
  Re:
  e e trollings strikes again!
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  - Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 8:48pm
    
    Re: Re:
    WOW! FOUR PEOPLE TO SHOUT ME DOWN!!! HOW MUCH YOU GETTING PAID BY MIKE THE MASNICK! I'M NOT THE ASSHOLE!!! YOU'RE ALL THE ASSHOLE!
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    - harbingerofdoom (profile), 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:35pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      lulz
      
      i can just imagine you sitting there at your keyboard foaming at the mouth and looking like you are just about to go into a full blown seizure while shouting that out.
      
      perhaps you may want to look into a decaf brand. there are some out there every bit as tasty as the real thing.
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    - athe, 24 Jun 2010 @ 11:12pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      All lowercase or all UPPERCASE - what, no middle ground?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jun 2010 @ 6:42am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      We do if for the sheer joy of proving you are wrong, a troll, a shill, and lack any common sense. No financial reward is needed.
      
      and
      
      "YOU'RE ALL THE ASSHOLE!"
      
      should be either
      
      YOU'RE ALL THE ASSHOLES!
      
      or
      
      YOU'RE ALL ASSHOLES!
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    - The Groove Tiger (profile), 25 Jun 2010 @ 8:07am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      TAM: Repercussions of Evil
      
      The Anti-Mike waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were Mikes in the internets. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Michial Thompson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
      TAM was a shill for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the RIAA and he said to dad "I want to be on the companies daddy."
      Dad said "No! You will BE SHOUTED DOWN BY MIKES"
      There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the internets site of the Techdirt he knew there were Mikes.
      "This is Thompson" the radio crackered. "You must fight the Mikes!"
      So TAM gotted his flaem keyboard and blew up the firewall.
      "HE GOING TO FLAME US" said the readers
      "I will shut him up" said the commenter and he fired the report button. TAM flamed at him and tried to shout him down. But then the connection fell and they were trapped and not able to flame.
      "No! I must flame the asshole" he shouted
      The internets said "No, TAM. You are the asshole"
      And then TAM was a troll.
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The baker, 24 Jun 2010 @ 6:26pm

Tools causing harm
My stove burnt my finger.
- In the US ... Sue the stove maker and anyone else you can blame.
- In Spain ... Don't touch the damned stove Idiot.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 6:39pm

Spain is not that stupid as to blame a kitchen knife making company for its knives being used in muggings.

Spanish people are morons (like everyone else, really), but not THAT stupid.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 7:57pm

"he issue is not that Spain doesn't respect copyright laws, but that it properly recognizes that you don't blame the tool provider for the actions of its users" - yet they dont oblige the file sharing sites to know who their users are. sort of created a legal black hole, the reason content companies are shying away from the spanish market place.

basically, they are allowing the companies that profit from file sharing to say "soddi" and not making them point out which dude did it.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 8:49pm
  
  Re:
  Them's the breaks, kid.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:36pm
  
  Re:
  File sharing is legal in Spain. Why would filesharers need to be identified in the first place?
  
  It's like identifying TAM for being a troll. Sure, some of us my like that information, but we're not legally entitled to it.
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- harbingerofdoom (profile), 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:38pm
  
  Re:
  then perhaps a better product to make them open their wallets and give up the cash would be a more appropriate response.
  
  because suing everyone in sight sure isnt getting it done.
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- masquisieras, 25 Jun 2010 @ 3:05am
  
  Re:
  The reason is that in Spain privacy and secret of communication has the same legal status than free of expresion that has the same status that at the EEUU. That means that you need a very strong case to get a subpoena for that information that is criminal (sure) level of proof not civil (most probable level) of proof and that do not exist in this cases.
  
  So is a problem of higher civil rights not of lower copyright protection are you asking for the spaniards to lower their civil rights to help the copyright holders?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:02pm

if its the job of that site to show you were to get things illegally, why shouldn't they be held liable?
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:10pm
  
  Re:
  Because of the global recession that site is unfortunately unemployed and doesn't currently have a job.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:10pm
  
  Re:
  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=your+question+is+stupid+filetype%3Atorrent
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  - mkam (profile), 25 Jun 2010 @ 5:57am
    
    Re: Re:
    Perfect retort. How is TPB different from Google. Actually Google has more results than Pirate Bay will have for 'illegal' searches.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2010 @ 9:16am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      but not as a percentage, and not as the goal or target market. google responds to and takes actions on dmca, and tpb does not. they both run on computers, that is about their only true connection.
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      - Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2010 @ 12:31pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Google is based in the United States, the Pirate Bay is not so the DMCA does not apply. Moron.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:20pm
  
  Re:
  Because maps and search engines aren't, tammy. Try harder next time.
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- masquisieras, 25 Jun 2010 @ 3:12am
  
  Re:
  Because the job of the site is to point you to thing, some would be with the right holder authorization, some without the right holder authorization but used in a legal way and other used illegally and there is no way to know a priory which is which or how is going to be used.
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Nick Coghlan (profile), 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:10pm

The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
You don't seem to have any issues with banks that have been robbed suing the makers of any weapons used, or the makers of the getaway vehicles. You also don't impose any expectations for those manufacturers to do much of anything about the potential for misuse.

Where the US falls down is that the plastic disc industries have had a fair bit of success in claiming that internet services should be held to a higher standard.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:16pm
  
  Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
  Internet services do have access to the magic buttons.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:20pm
    
    Re: Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
    You're completely wrong.
    
    They have magic wands.
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    - harbingerofdoom (profile), 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:42pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
      youre both completely wrong...
      
      its a lever guarded by bears with lasers for eyes wearing canadian flag capes.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:21pm
  
  Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
  "You don't seem to have any issues with banks that have been robbed suing the makers of any weapons used, or the makers of the getaway vehicles. You also don't impose any expectations for those manufacturers to do much of anything about the potential for misuse." - that is a very poor analogy. the makers of those things are not specifically entering into a conspiracy to commit a crime. they are selling a legal product.
  
  however, when you start a site called "the pirate movie shop" and link almost exclusively pirated material, you have entered into a conspiracy to provide stolen content. it is a very different situation. the makers of the servers used to run the site arent liable, but those who misuse their products may be.
  
  your logic is one of the many smoke and mirror tricks used by piracy advocates to attempt to mislead people by creating false or misleading analogies.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:28pm
    
    Re: Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
    Like the "smoke and mirror trick" of pretending that copyright infringement is theft because your arguments are so weak that you cannot rely on their merits?
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  - harbingerofdoom (profile), 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:46pm
    
    Re: Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
    using twisted logic and calling things what they are not does not give you a win in your column.
    
    it makes you look like an idiot.
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  - Urza9814, 24 Jun 2010 @ 9:49pm
    
    Re: Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
    I get your point about the name and content of the site, but by that logic there are a lot of pawn shops in shady neighborhoods, sketchy bars, dance clubs, and law firms that should be shut down because of their clients? I mean what's the difference between saying that people who set up a site that hosts mostly copyrighted material should be arrested and saying that criminal defense attorneys who lose a lot of cases (i.e. they cater mostly to criminals) should be arrested? Or saying that business owners that unwittingly purchase large amounts of stolen goods should be arrested?
    
    Hell, those responses would be more rational than arresting, say, the owners of The Pirate Bay. After all, they don't upload the torrents, the users do. That's like arresting Mike because of the link the AC above posted to a bunch of torrents on Google.
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  - masquisieras, 25 Jun 2010 @ 3:29am
    
    Re: Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
    No in Spain at most you has enter a conspiracy to provide access to unauthorized material, as all user pay a levi in several electronic equipment (CD,DVD,HardDisk,Fotocopiers,CD/DVDWriter....) to compensate for several no authorized uses of materials depending on who and how is used, access to unauthorized material could be perfectly legal. So the conspiracy theory can't hold water here.
    
    So is easy if they want to have a chance in hell to prosecute by that line of thought the right holders should first of all stop collecting the about 0.75 Billion € a year from the spanish citizens they get with this levies.
    
    Yeah sure stop getting a lot of money for a chance (not a sure thing) to close a link page, I don't think so.
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  - BJ, 4 Jul 2010 @ 5:07am
    
    Re: Re: The US is actually pretty inconsistent on this issue
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4
    
    Copying is not theft. It's fun. It's how we learn.
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jun 2010 @ 7:01am

Something to think about
If ACTA get signed. I do believe it is will be a combination of the pirate party and the Spainish courts that will bring it down in the EU, by using EU law.

It also seems that 3 strikes or graduated response in france will be found to be against EU law, long before ACTA gets signed.

In Britain I see the Digital Economy Bill (Act) being removed before ACTA get signed. Making it all but impossible for ACTA to be implemented in britain.

In Ireland I see the agreements to implement 3 strikes being ruled unlawful after it is challenged in the EU court system. For the same reason as France.

Basically its a good start for us. Horrible for the content owners. Personally I would have approached implementing this in a totally different way. They got the timing so fraking off, and were in such a rush to force these laws through, that they didnt plan or time things correctly.

All in all, I give it a Fail.
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minijedimaster (profile), 25 Jun 2010 @ 8:37am

So how long until all of the torrent search engine sites move their operations to Spain?
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- TtfnJohn (profile), 25 Jun 2010 @ 9:02am
  
  Re:
  Not to sound too dense, hard to do when I'm feeding TAM trolls but what the hell.....
  
  Why would they want to move to Spain? While you're busy having your fit of irrationality (again) there are legitimate, legal torrents out there. So even at your extremes such search engines have a right to exist.
  
  OK, maybe not. Some bit torrents are used to perform copyright infringement (not a criminal act, by the way therefore all bit torrents are used to perform copyright infringement even when used for legitimate purposes such as downloading Linux and BSD distros and THEREFORE all bit torrents must be eliminated from the intertubes and furthermore even if used legitimately for a clearly non criminal act anyone caught seeding or leaching a bit torrent should be jailed for life or subject to summary execution.
  
  Have I got it right now?
  
  Just wondering about the twisted logic here. Actually complete and total lack of logic, not to mention civil and criminal law.
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