Why Are Entertainment Industry Spokespeople So Scared To Debate Critics?
from the so-odd dept
A few weeks back, we noted how strange it was that ASCAP boss Paul Williams directly refused to debate Larry Lessig, after Williams falsely described Creative Commons and other groups as being anti-copyright, and referred to attempts to discuss this as an attempt to "silence" him. Over in Europe there's a similar situation, as the head of the Austrian film and music industry trade association has dropped out of a planned panel discussion after learning that former spokesperson of The Pirate Bay, Peter Sunde, would be on the panel as well."On Friday, I was informed of the requested list of panelists and only then I learned that Peter Sunde, a convicted co-founder of the BitTorrent download portal The Pirate Bay, will participate in this discussion. For this reason, I would like to hereby withdraw my participation."Not much of a "debate" is it, when you refuse to sit at the same table as those who disagree with you. None of this makes much sense to me. If these folks have the evidence to support their position, why not take part in these debates and support their position in a way that wins over those watching? Intentionally avoiding such discussions seems like a blatant admission that they know their arguments don't stand up to much scrutiny.
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Filed Under: copyright, debates, entertainment industry, peter sunde
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Wow...
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Simple
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Rhetoric vs. Knowledge
When an actual expert comes along with facts and information they want to silence them even if it means denying that opportunity for themselves. After all, they represent big media companies - they can always make more soapboxes, whereas their opponents suffer mostly from obscurity.
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Why Are Entertainment Industry Spokespeople So Scared To Debate Critics?
Hey DH, is this your sister on German TV? :-P
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=YR28oWPJ8vA
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Re: Why Are Entertainment Industry Spokespeople So Scared To Debate Critics?
You found her! Gasp! So that's where my Star Wars Legos went....
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I think you answered your own question, Mike.
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We all know the answer...
Since they've never been proven wrong, they can then go on to say such fun statements like:
- It is in undisputed fact that file sharing is causing our losses.
Since they've never actually debated the assertion, they believe the information to be true and they've explicitly refrained from viewing studies to the contrary, they can say "we didn't lie".
Granted, those of us with a smattering of common sense see this for the lawyer-speak that it is and promptly ignore it... :-)
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Re: We all know the answer...
They avoid anything that can prove them wrong. Its one of the great things about situations like this, they deny anything is wrong, following the party line blindly, and eventually crash and burn. Its a good thing.
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Re: We all know the answer...
The MAFIAA is in denial about their failing business model (diabetes). At some point one of the MAFIAAs "toes" is going to get infected. I wonder if the MAFIAAs dog will eat their toe.
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Re: Re: We all know the answer...
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why?
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Creative Commons Good
Four Legs Bad
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Just because people don't want something to happen doesn't mean you can stop it from happening. You don't like file sharing? Get off of this blog and get back to stopping it. Let me know how that turns out for you.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: why?
Just because you want something to happen doesn't mean it will happen. I want free pizza and hookers on Tuesdays, but there will never be a law enacted that gives me that right. You don't like comments from people on this blog that don't agree with yours? Come here and take my computer away. Let me know how that turns out for you.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why?
Your types always fall back on sarcasm at times like this. I'm guessing genuine wit is beyond you.
"Just because you want something to happen doesn't mean it will happen."
This isn't a matter of "want" or "do not want." This is a matter of "is" and "will be."
Since you industry shills can't tell the difference between between all the people who oppose you, let me help you out with this one: Most of the people who post on here are not really into file sharing, but simply recognize the reality of it. About a billion people worldwide engage in it. And you expect any logical person to the almighty entertainment industry can go against the will of the world?
"You don't like comments from people on this blog that don't agree with yours? Come here and take my computer away."
Or we could just keep responding to you, verbally raping you while you get crazier and more desperate with each passing day.
You're like a drowning man, clutching at everything he can with increasing desperation as he goes under. Glug, glug. Bye now.
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Correction....
That should say "...any logical person to BELIEVE the almighty entertainment..."
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why?
Nah. I'm a troll and you're stupid for replying. Thanks for wasting your time. I just do this to get through boring workdays.
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No dumber than the person who wastes his time trolling to start with. Sorry, but you don't get to look down your nose at anyone else.
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man it's a slow one
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why?
You want to people to pay you for streaming something inside their houses?
You want people to pay you for making backups of what they bought with their own money?
You want to charge people for singing in public?
You want people to get a permit to play radio on the park?
Thanks but no thanks, you know when I'm going to respect those type of laws?
NEVER!
SEND ME TO SING-SING.
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You people should just grow up and get over it. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why?
If we're going to just post meaningless one-liners instead of actually debating, I can do that too. For example:
Tell your mom I said thanks.
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If I am a troll, they lost and so did you. If I'm not and all I get is retarded one liners to answer me, then they still lose.
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Who lost? You lost your mind a loooong time ago. Just so this doesn't turn into another one of your hated "one-liners" I will point out no-one here has advocated selling T-shirts as the sole viable business model for the future.
While your point about only a few mainstream artists embracing new models of business may be true it isn't for independent artists who have to come up with new models in order to get their art noticed.
We would all appreciate you trying to add to the conversation. Stuffing the strawman and repeating the same old tired fallacies does nothing to further the discussion and instead makes you look rather stupid.
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You didn't say anything, so they are just going with that precedent that you set :)
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pathetic
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why?
Economically speaking, the issue comes down to two competitors -- the one who gives away his music for free and uses the increased exposure to sell other things, and the one who hangs on to legacy models and tries to keep people from listening to his music without paying. there are shades on both sides, but this is the core of it. The first artist will dominate the market because he'll be accessible, because his music will reach a wider audience. The second artist might make some money, but his model generally relies on people paying for something sight-unseen, or paying for the same thing several times. The second artist restricts his greatest asset, and will eventually become a non-player as too few people know of or care about him.
Yeah, it might be "the only way to make money soon," but complaining that "everyone will have to do it that way" is kind of silly. At best it's like complaining that you can't sell $75 pizzas and at worst it's like complaining that you need a plane to fly.
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For example, Peter Sunde who will stand up and offer "the other sides" point of view, no doubt with supporting information. whereas this person has dropped out because he (more than likely) knows he wont stand up to the information contesting his standpoint.
its irrelevant what WE think, we have our opinions. just like its irrelevant what YOU think because your just a shill.
However, WE are all willing to stand up and back up our side of the argument with opinions, facts, figures, research, industry statistics etc etc. it is in fact your money grabbing industry knob-head overlords who are refusing to accept the truth! and by dropping out of an obviously 2-SIDED debate, he has just displayed the definitive art of putting fingers in ears and denying others the chance to DEBATE (operative word here!).
maybe you missed most of the articles on here anyway. as Mike FREQUENTLY points out, no-one here (especially Mike) suggests artists should give work(s) away, condones piracy/illegal file-sharing or make money "on selling t-shirts". just to be a bit more intelligent in the approach to business and explore the multitude of avenues for gaining revenue and exposure without screwing over YOUR FANS for a quick buck!!
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Re: why?
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Debate
Wash, rinse, repeat.
If that does not work, just state your case LOUDER
and more often.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
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It's akin to the Semmelweis reflex, where alternative or oppositional positions are rejected instantly, without thought for whether such notions have any merit. Therefore, without sufficient precedent to justify that knee-jerk dismissal, you are engaging in a fairly common cognitive bias.
And I think it's safe to say that when it comes to the questions posed by copyright across the world, there is definitely insufficient precedent. :p
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The truth of the matter is that you're a bunch of gadflies. You irritate, you loudly shout at anyone who disagrees with you (because you hate 'the man'), and you are mostly uninformed rubes with no statistical proof of what you're talking about.
I think it's even safer to say that copyright was around before you and has become what it is because of planning and carefully considering risk. I also think it's pretty safe to say that most of the people here on this blog only look at one side of the issue.
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There are plenty of sources and studies posted on this blog if you really care to read them (hint: you don't).
The real truth of the matter is your a really bitter troll who has a major hard-on for Techdirt.
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So you come on someone's blog, do not read and then want the entire content of the blog spoon fed to you. Cute. This blog has a search function, feel free to use it.
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I've seen studies about many things on this blog. None that show that phenomenon.
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too much spare time
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It all started when you stopped logging into an account ...
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The comments
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The real truth of the matter? I think the industry just joined the 'debate' because they thought it would make a good press release with no work. I'm surprised they don't hire professional straw men.
Protip for those that replied in an emotional context or a one liner that was off of the original post's topic: Stop. You fed me, I enjoyed the hell out of it (work was REALLY slow today), and you all look like just as much of a jackass as I did with your comments. For those that tried to keep on topic and had well reasoned responses (Eugene, I'm looking at you): Good job.
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Go pass the time somewhere else. We don't care for your inability to form cohesive thoughts or your try-to-be devil's advocate performances (hint: you suck at it).
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Truth
When an actual expert comes along with facts and information they want to silence them even if it means denying that opportunity for themselves. After all, they represent big media companies - they can always make more soapboxes, whereas their opponents suffer mostly from obscurity.
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The Real Truth
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Re: The Real Truth
The Real Truth is that CC licenses are copyrights, and they are there for artists to use, or not use, as they see fit. In fact, the people at CC found out about it because some of their license users are also ASCAP members. CC is an organization who is just as much pro-artist as ASCAP is.
Perhaps even more, since PRO's such as ASCAP benefit already-popular artists the most, and up-and-coming artists the least. For example, royalty rates are calculated based on radio play, which (due in no small part to payola) is pretty much the exclusive domain of major label artists.
There's also the fact that excessive, extortion-like practices of getting licenses from tiny businesses (some of which don't even play PRO music) has forced many of those businesses to stop playing music altogether. A situation that, I'm sure you'll agree, does not help any artist one iota.
For one example (of many), see the lawsuit ASCAP brought against Connolly's Pub in Bruce Springsteen's name - which Springsteen didn't approve of, or even know about:
http://www.spinner.com/2010/02/04/bruce-springsteen-lawsuit-bar/
The Real Truth is that if a debate ever happened, the people at CC (who are more pro-artist than ASCAP) would air out all that dirty laundry in public, and that's something no PRO would ever approve of.
Media organizations already make more than enough of the backs of working artists, songwriters & composers. Thank god ASCAP is out there fighting for us.....
Major labels are the media organizations that make money off the backs of working artists. ASCAP does nothing to challenge them.
They do, however, go after auto shops that allow their employees to play their iPods. That's hardly a situation that I believe qualifies as "make more than enough off the backs of working artists, songwriters & composers."
When ASCAP actually did its job right - correctly distributing radio royalties, collecting from music venues - then very few people would have much of a problem with them.
That includes CC, the EFF, and Public Knowledge, all of which ASCAP called "thieves."
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Re: Re: The Real Truth
http://www.artsjournal.com/gap/2010/06/the-right-balance-on-copying.html
Pay special attention to the comments, the majority of which are by ASCAP members who find this stance to be the final straw, and are quitting.
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