A Rose Is A Rose Is A Rose... Until Police See It On CCTV, Say It's A Knife & Throw You In Jail For 3 Months

from the what-happened-to-the-rose? dept

Tue, Aug 31st 2010 8:06am — Mike Masnick

The UK has really been quite aggressive in installing CCTV surveillance cameras all over, trying to spot trouble before it escalates, but apparently they're not very good at it sometimes. Glyn Moody points us to the story of the police spotting a man, who had been previously convicted of assault, walking along with his fiancee. Via the CCTV footage, police determined that the guy, Stephen McAleer, was carrying a knife, and a few weeks later, the police showed up at his house in order to arrest him, tossing him in jail for three months. The only problem? It turns out that the "knife" was really a rose that he had bought for his fiancee. Apparently, it took three months and then a trial to get this all sorted out. Don't you feel safer now?

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Filed Under: cctv, knife, rose, uk

73 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:18am

what do i have to do to get this surveillance system in my city?
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:18am

how sad, 3 months of his life gone cause of typical UK policework
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:18am

three months a trial

does not compute

three months of a trial, perhaps?
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:21am

he was in jail for 3 months, trial was 2 days
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:21am

Good thing he didn't have a backpack with him... That could've been an atom bomb. Or God forbid he was wearing a jock strap under his clothes. That could be used as a garrot to strangle someone. And what about his jeans... Easily a deadly weapon he could've used to rob stores with. Good thing he didn't point his loaded shoes at any cops, or they would've just shot him right there on the spot.
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DH's Love Child (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:24am

I thought that...
If you weren't doing anything wrong you didn't have anything to worry about.... Well, shit, there goes that arguement.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:27am

Re:
Can you imagine what would happen if he had a freaking pen?

"AAAAHHHHH!!! That raporist has a PEN! I hear it's mightier than the sword! Shoot to kill! Shoot to kill!"
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:29am

Would the opposite hold true?
"Awww, look guys. That nice man is running a rose along his girlfriends throat! How sweet...."
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:41am

Couldn't the police just tase him and place a gun in his hand?
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IronM@sk, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:43am

Re:
three months and a trial?
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IronM@sk, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:45am

Re:
It's the UK. Don't they still use truncheons over there?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:47am

Re: Re:
I thought they just through tea and strumpets at everyone....
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Robert Ring (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:49am

Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
Something else confuses me about this. Is it illegal to carry a knife around in the UK?
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ComputerAddict (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:50am

Re:
When you said "place a gun in his hand" this is family guy was the first thing that came to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81S5sm1U2RU
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:52am

Re: Re: Re:
Crumpets... The only time Strumpets are thrown at you is Mardi Gras, or perhaps Spring Break if you're still in college.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Dumb & Dumber reference....
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Liam (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:55am

Re: Re: Re:
*threw

I'm English and I have no idea what the hell a strumpet is..
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Liam (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 8:56am

Re: Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
yep, unless you have a good reason for it (part of job etc)
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:01am

Re:
Absolutely nothing. Do nothing, and it will arrive in no time.
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cc (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:03am

"Is this a rose by any other name which I see before me?"

Shakespeare remix of the day.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Think Lindsay Lohan. But not necessarily drunk.
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JEDIDIAH, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:09am

Re: Re: Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
Wandering around with fighting knives is generally considered a no-no in most places.

The real question is how any git could confuse a flower for a knife.
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Berenerd (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:14am

Re: Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
it is illegal in the US as well if you are on parole or its over a certain size. (really depends on the state however)
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PrometheeFeu (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:14am

Let's make cops personnaly penaly responsible for such blatant fuck-ups.
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Mike, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:16am

CCTV
Either someone is blind or the system doesn't have the great of resolution to see it. What a bunch of idiots.
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R. Miles (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:20am

Re:
what do i have to do to get this surveillance system in my city?
You assume it's not there already? How curious.
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R. Miles (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:22am

With all this ridiculous news coming out of the UK in 2010 alone, I wonder if the government is keeping a close watch on unused subway tunnels.

:|
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Sean T Henry (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:29am

Re:
From the article linked "He was arrested and sent to Barlinnie Jail on remand. And 28-year-old Stephen's three month prison ordeal only ended when he was cleared at a two-day trial this week."
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Tom The Toe, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:34am

Re: Re: Dark Helmet
"I thought they just through tea and strumpets at everyone...." Need to learn the difference between a strumpet and a crumpet.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:38am

Need to learn the difference between a strumpet and a crumpet They're both good to eat, so what is the difference...?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:38am

Re: Re: Re: Dark Helmet
Jesus, people, have NONE of you seen Dumb & Dumber!!!????
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jjmsan (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:41am

Re: Re: Re: Dark Helmet
I am up for that can I start with strumpets?
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jjmsan (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:42am

Re:
You put the jelly in different areas.
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Chosen Reject, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:43am

Re: Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
There are all sorts of things wrong with this situation. Three months in jail for carrying a flower is stupid. But they also took three weeks before arresting the guy. I thought the CCTV cameras were supposed to reduce crime. If it takes 3 weeks to arrest someone, then they aren't doing a very good job at reducing the crime. What if they guy really did have a knife? What if he was stabbing someone in full view of the camera? Would it still have taken three weeks to do anything?

If they had responded quickly, they would have seen it was a rose right then and this whole thing could have been avoided. Ridiculous.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:44am

Re: Re:
Shoot to kill! Shoot to kill!

DH, what you and the OP don't seem to realize is that Bobbies don't carry guns. I think only their version of a S.W.A.T. team gets to use them and only under extraordinary circumstances. I'm not sure a pen qualifies.
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interval (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
They don't have movies in England. Just CCTV.
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interval (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
A tart. Which here is a cake.
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interval (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:49am

Re:
"Y'call that a knoife? Now 'ere's a knoife."

Paul Hogan quote of the day.
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interval (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Dark Helmet
No, Dark. There's a reason for that; it was pretty lame. Glad you liked it though.
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Michael, 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:53am

Did the rose have thorns?
It could have been dangerous if it had a thorn.

Do the police in the UK have nothing better to do that watch CCTV looking for people carrying weapons? i feel much safer that they spend their time on this kind of thing...

Luckily, the saved this poor sap from giving his girlfriend a rose. The next thing could have been a ring, and that often causes someone their life.
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Robert Ring (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:54am

Re: Re: Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
Yeah, but that would have to be a pretty big freakin' rose!
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Christopher (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 9:54am

Re:
This is a wide-open case for a lawsuit on harassment by the police and a few other things.

This guy should SUE the police and send them a message that carrying a knife is NOT illegal in the slightest.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:03am

"Via the CCTV footage, police determined that the guy, Stephen McAleer, was carrying a knife, and a few weeks later, the police showed up at his house in order to arrest him, tossing him in jail for three months"

OMG, good thing it only took them "a few weeks" to stop that knife waving maniac. Who knows what kind of havoc he could cause if it took them "several" weeks instead.

/s
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re:
I guess he meant that they should have chased him with their police batons in fast-motion, with the Benny Hill theme song playing in the background.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:11am

Re:
"I wonder if the government is keeping a close watch on unused subway tunnels."

V for Vendetta time.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:15am

Re:
Typo. Fixed. Thanks.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:17am

Re: Re: Re:
"I'm not sure a pen qualifies."

Really? A guy just spent weeks in jail for carrying a rose. You SURE it doesn't qualify?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dark Helmet
Pure and utter blasphomey....
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Christopher (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:26am

Re: I thought that...
That argument was bullcrap from the beginning. Everyone KNOWS that someone out there will ABUSE the law to harass someone else that they dislike.

It was done with the homosexuals. It is being done with some other groups such as the polygamists.

We simply need to say that unless someone is ACTIVELY harming someone else, stealing from someone else, or forcing someone else to do something they do not wish to do?

NO LAWS ON THE BOOKS! Regulations are okay, they are not usually punishable in a CRIMINAL court. But no more laws on the books.
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Kingster (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Re: Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
"That's not a rose... Now that's a rose!"
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Christopher (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:32am

Re:
I agree. If the cops were automatically made to give up say.... half their paycheck to the person who they accused beyond a shadow of a doubt illegitimately? These things would stop!
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Kingster (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:34am

Re:
"OMG, good thing it only took them "a few weeks" to stop that knife waving maniac. Who knows what kind of havoc he could cause if it took them "several" weeks instead."
This. A thousand times, this.
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Greg G, 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:38am

Re: Re:
It is illegal if: 1. you're on probation or 2. on parole.

Otherwise, I agree with suing the PD for everything you can get in an attempt to teach them a lesson about civil liberties.
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Shawn (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:39am

Re: Re:
EXACTLY why they need to mount guns to the cameras. The could have shot the bastard on the spot!
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kris, 31 Aug 2010 @ 10:54am

@ gidgets
some gidget was sitting around fluffing his strumpet while watching 3 week old CCTV footage when his boss comes in and tells him he's under quota for sightings of malicious acts. after creaming the strumpet crumpet and spewing on screen, the rose looked like a knife. it wasn't his fault.

agree with all of the above, sue, sue sue (and i dispise suers (and sewers))
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Overcast (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 11:12am

Big Brother is watching you.

Problem is - he either needs glasses or he's a moron....

Or maybe both.
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JTO (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 11:26am

Okay, let's say it WAS a knife. How is that illegal? When I was a chef, I had a large assortment of scary-looking knives with me whenever I took the train or bus to/from work.

And really, when is the last time you went for a long romantic walk with your girlfriend while carrying a giant knife?
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Some Other Guy, 31 Aug 2010 @ 11:50am

Enhance (with optional Zoom?)
The linked article quotes from and links to a Daily Record article which uses the word 'enhance' in relation to the CCTV footage three times - which leaps out at me as iffy.
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Danny, 31 Aug 2010 @ 12:21pm

Its simple...
The police f'd up and they knew. But instead of just admitting it from get go they held him for 3 months in some effort to come up with something to charge him with.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Remember when Judge Dredd was satire, and not an instruction manual? Good times...
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Toby, 31 Aug 2010 @ 1:27pm

Re: Enhance (with optional Zoom?)
Let's enhance that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk CSI is especially amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uoM5kfZIQ0
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 2:04pm

I can see how they could have been confused if the rose was wrapped in mylar(BoPET), depending on how it was wrapped it could look like a machete, still 3 months to clear all up seems excessive and add to that no knife was ever found there is something wrong with that picture, I think laws against terrorism where used there how else you explain such a thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 2:18pm

Re: Re:
In most places in the world a felon carrion any kind of weapon including a baseball bat in the batters box at a baseball game is sufficient to return him to prison.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Aug 2010 @ 3:24pm

And that boys and girls, is what happens when the citizenry of a nation allows itself to be emasculated, namely by outlawing the ownership of firearms. It's the final recourse in opposing a tyrannical government, which the English no longer have and the results speak for itself.
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ChrisB (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 3:48pm

Re: Re: Thrown in jail for carrying a knife?
> If it takes 3 weeks to arrest someone, then they aren't
> doing a very good job at reducing the crime.

Deterrence. All crime reduction is deterrence. Therefore response time is not as critical as conviction rate.

Ask your local cop how many "crimes in progress" they've stopped (besides moving violations).
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Chargone (profile), 31 Aug 2010 @ 7:22pm

Alternatively, someone could have been watching too many Sailor Moon reruns or something...

Maybe they thought he was Tuxedo Mask...
(the guy does, after all, throw armour piercing roses...)

Though him they'd probably arrest for more interesting things than possession of a knife.

all joking aside though, yeah, this is moronic.

When modern 'democracy' eventually reaches sufficient level of tyranny (and it's certainly trying :S), it will most likely go the same way as absolute monarchy. what then shall replace it, i wonder?
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BearGriz72 (profile), 1 Sep 2010 @ 3:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Dark Helmet
Nobody has heard of Google either...
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thornintheside, 1 Sep 2010 @ 4:04am

UK is a joke
How the UK was ever a world power is beyond me. V for Vendetta and 1984 are alive and well in the UK. The UK is the biggest joke of a country, even France looks like a better place to live.
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Danny, 1 Sep 2010 @ 6:33am

Re:
A Sailor Moon reference. Nice.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 1 Sep 2010 @ 10:56am

Re: UK is a joke
...even France looks like a better place to live.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Let's not get carried away now.
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FoolsGold, 2 Sep 2010 @ 3:14pm

CCTV trial Knife Coming Up Roses
One wonders how many men walk along the street with a knife while in the presence of their fiance and her mother. Perhaps the cops felt this was a new kind of courtship ritual. Why did it take so long for the cops to enhance the image?
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Jakon, 3 Sep 2010 @ 8:56am

There could have been a bomb in that rose. He should have got a life sentence.
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Atari, 22 Sep 2010 @ 9:16am

In My Mind's Eye...
...I see Graham Chapman as the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police with John Cleese as his over-zealous chief detective.

"Well, of COURSE it's a weapon! You see? It has thorns! Thorns are sharp, and pointy, and....NOOOOO ONEEEEE EXPECTS A ROSE AS A WEAPON!!!!!"
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