Reminder: You Don't Own Your Ebooks; Amazon Locks Customer Out And Doesn't Respond To Help Requests
from the you-don't-own-what-you-bought dept
We've pointed out in the past that if you're "buying" ebooks on devices like the Kindle or the iPad, it's important to remember that you're not really "buying" the books, and you don't really own them. We're seeing that once again with a story on Consumerist about a woman who was locked out of the ebooks on her Kindle for a month:A month ago I bought a kindle and was really excited to use it on vacation. I bought a few books and when I was done, I bought another. Then they froze my account, so I called in and logged a case.This apparently has gone on for four weeks, involving approximately 20 phone calls and emails... and still no solution from Amazon. Anyone know of any case where the same thing happened with a physical book?
Within 48 hours I got a call back, saying it was an error on their side and they'd unfreeze it for me, but I'd just need to re-order the book. I thought no problem, thanks for the help. So I bought the book a second time and it automatically freezes me out again. I call in and log another case, but get no phone call back as promised from an account specialist.
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Yes...
Yes, but it's not EXACTLY the same. My case involved a paperback novel, a teething dog, and a tech support muzzle....
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Yeah, I recognize the problem...
Had to return to the bookstore where I had to buy a second copy, this time checking if the last 20 pages were indeed in it.
So, I was locked out of the last 20 pages of a real book I've purchased... ;-)
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Re: Yeah, I recognize the problem...
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Unique to Software
On the other hand, if you install a game on your PC, you always have a non-zero chance of breaking something else on your system (though increasingly unlikely with better operating systems...).
In this case, what you have is a "feature" where a vendor (Amazon) can punish the customer for bad behavior, but the "feature" has a bug that punishes a customer because they purchased a badly configured product.
The customer must beware that many of the digital products we buy require a network connection to call home in order to enable this "feature" of allowing a vendor to police their behavior. I have moved my household to open source to the maximum extent possible because of this and other policies becoming common in commercial software. It isn't really about the money. I can afford to buy software.
I am increasingly avoiding commercial software (like Windows, Office, OS-X, iTunes, Kindle, etc.) because open source software delivers the same functions WITHOUT the loss of privacy/freedom and WITHOUT the higher risk of error and and WITHOUT having to pay out money and over fist for the same products over and over.
I am still buying paperback books because there isn't any reasonable product that gives me the same freedom and security of a bound set of pages.
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Re:
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New Business model?
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Re: Unique to Software
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Re: Yeah, I recognize the problem...
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eBooks
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Re: Yeah, I recognize the problem...
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Re: New Business model?
Unfortunately when the Internet took off, most of corporate America was run by tech ignorant executives. Their knee jerk reaction was to invent the AyC part of the model. It was only supposed to apply to Internet customers, but they didn't realize that the Internhet customers were also their regular customers who were looking a different outlet. Since the traditional businesses were not meeting a market need they got RtP out of the deal.
Corporate America will continue to follow the AYC+RtP model as long as executives need to blame someone for their failures in other areas.
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Not for the iPad
Also: the books purchased via the iBook store are non-drmed! So I don't see how you could include the iPad in that claim.
I would edit it to say Nook instead since barnes and noble ever so sneakily slipped the DRM back into their ebooks.
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Your question there de-railed this from Amazon...
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Re: New Business model?
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Re: Not for the iPad
Want to bet Apple fanboi?
Apple has a kill switch on EVERYTHING. Don't fool yourself. They've already used it on apps and don't deceive yourself into believing that the next time you connect your iPad to iTunes to sync that Apple can't have that removed from your iPad.
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Easy solution
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Re: Re: Not for the iPad
If the part about DRM free books are true, I may actually buy ebooks from Apple one day. Okay, maybe not, but I *considered* it. Which is more than Amazon or B&N got from me. :)
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Re: Re: Not for the iPad
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The defference between a defective bound book...
Publishing/studio/recording industry wonks keep whining loudly about theft. But what about the theft THEY commit when, via DRM, they effectively steal a book/movie/song which a customer has legitimately and legally purchased? I guess that doesn't count as theft...
If people would just stop buying DRM-damaged content, (yes, I know the student in this case had no choice), then the damaged content would disappear from the market. It's long past time that we, as consumers, put our collective foot down and let these presumptuous dictators know who REALLY holds their purse strings.
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If it wasn't tied to iTunes I would take a look at iBooks to see if they are actually DRM free.
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Re: The defference between a defective bound book...
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No problem here
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Re: Easy solution
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I have a kindle3 on order so I can do some reading until either new Sony reader is out or Nook 2 is out.
But I am just going to side-load whatever Project Gutenburg books I want with Calibre. Amazon can take their proprietary format and their stinking account management to hell with it.
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My physical books glue themselves shut when I violate the EULA..
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Think Android
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just like videos...
just like music...
Apparently we live in a world where the only things you really own are the things you steal.
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thanks for the idea, just tried it, didn't work
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I had a problem
With all the stories about people not being able to read books that they paid for, why would anyone want a Kindle.
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Physical Book + a Scanner is probably cheaper.
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Re: Re: Yeah, I recognize the problem...
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Re: Re: Re: Not for the iPad
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We dont own digital copies anymore?? WTF.
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Re: Not for the iPad
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Re: Re: Re: Not for the iPad
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Re:
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I wonder
"I won't ever use paper! I like my solid stone chiseled book! Only certain people can make paper, and I can get stone all over the place. Crazy paper people! Why would anyone want to change from stone?"
I buy lifelong books in paper format. I buy novels and books I'll never again read in electronic format.
;-)
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Re: Re: Re: Not for the iPad
No, you're wrong, and the other poster was right. Apple can remotely disable applications you've purchased for your iPhone/iTouch/iPad. This is built in functionality. Now, I'm not sure they can kill DATA, but they certainly can kill apps... but I expect if it's data you've purchased, they can kill it.
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Re: Re:
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kafka
I love that book.
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Re: New Business model?
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Re: Re: Re:
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Re: e-books vs physical books
If I drop a paperback in the tub, I'm not out hundreds of dollars.
I'm sure at some point I'll get an e-book reader of some sort for specific uses, kind of like how I buy both physical & digital music & video media, but right now the ratio of pros & cons is firmly on the book side!
-J
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I don't buy book - I use the library
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Corporations clearly don't understan..
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Re: Re: Yeah, I recognize the problem...
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Re: Re: Re: Yeah, I recognize the problem...
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Meanwhile....
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http://consumerist.com/2010/07/this-modern-claddagh-ring-looks-strangely-familiar.html
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Re: Re: Re: Not for the iPad
> devices. Apple can't delete files from your computer!
Actually we have seen apps mysteriously disappear from our iDevices. So this stuff does happen.
If you don't have root on your device then you are at the mercy of whomever does. Anything you can't copy freely is just a glorified rental. The seller can revoke permission any time they like or simply go out of business.
If you can't copy it or resell it, then you don't really own it.
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Re: Re: Unique to Software
I'm looking forward to some Meego tablet action myself. Maemo on the N900 has whetted my appetite (and I intend to try Meego on that too as soon as it's released).
It would be great if someone did a low end Meego device aimed at the nook/kindle market (or installed it on an existing device).
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Re:
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Re: We dont own digital copies anymore?? WTF.
the child crys till it gets what it want
and lies it way out of any trouble
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Same thing with me
Followed the directions to make new account but No response to e-mails set to the link they sent to get items transferred to new account.
No response to e-mails to customer service.
Hit the link for phone calls got a call (Indian off-shore person) that said sorry a lot and promised a follow up e-mail and correction of problem - no follow up - no items restored on new account.
3 weeks for me so far.
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Re: I wonder
Regardless, only a very limited amount of people debated stone vs. paper.
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Re:
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Re: Yeah, I recognize the problem...
Amazon shipped me replacements and pre-paid boxes to return the bad ones.
The brick and mortar chain kept insisting that I must have bought the defective book someplace else and wouldn't exchange it so I left the defective book there, had my bank reverse charges and never shopped there again even though it's right by where I work.
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Re: Re: Re: Not for the iPad
All the new Apple computing devices have hardware TCM built in. So do Intel based HPs, Dells and AMDs with on board ethernet chips.
I know for a fact it's possible to power on, read the drive and even flash the BIOS on those machines over the net. Even when it's turned off. I've seen it done in person.
Google TPM, MAC, ISO/IEC 11889 and if you have access read the extended PATRIOT and PATRIOT II acts. Read the part that expands the secret executive orders from Reagan that put serial numbers in everything from fax machines to children's walky-talkies in the 80s.
By the way, copy machines keep a copy of everything you copy on them and printers put secret yellow dots that look like mistakes but really show the serial number. Even your cameras put fingerprints in your pictures and have for years.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Not for the iPad
I've come back 8 years later to say I was the one who was WRONGO. You were right. About EVERYTHING. I have to go now. By contacting you again they may already have found me.
Good luck and God bless.
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