Scribd Puts User Docs Behind A Paywall Without Them Realizing It

from the totally-not-cool dept

Last year, I wrote about some issues I had with the way Scribd tried to avoid liability by suggesting that public domain documents couldn't be hosted on the site or that fair use was not allowed. To the company's credit, it responded quickly and fixed the situation, but soon after that I switched to (mostly) using Docstoc to host documents. Doctstoc has its own problems as well, but for the most part has worked well for me. Still, in my experience Scribd is still quite popular among folks -- especially for uploading and hosting legal documents. Apparently, the company recently made some quiet changes and it's seriously pissed off law professor Eric Goldman, who has relied on the site for quite some time.

The key problem? Without clear notification, it took "older" (and older is left undefined) documents and put them behind a paywall. As Goldman notes, the whole reason he used Scribd was to make the documents available, and it was quite a shock to suddenly find them behind a paywall:
Scribd's paywall stunt instantly put Scribd on my shitlist because it vitiates the reason I chose to use Scribd in the first place. I don't know that they ever promised me perpetual free access to the documents I post, but their value proposition always has been open access to the documents--freely shared with everyone and indexed in the search engines. The paywall destroys that value proposition. They've taken the documents that I wanted to freely share with the public (many of them public documents like court rulings and filings) and made them inaccessible. If my readers can't freely get the documents I wanted to share with them, then what's the point of using Scribd in the first place???

I also feel like Scribd used me. With their implicit promise of open access, they got me to share a lot of high-interest documents and generate lots of link love, then they flipped the default (from free to paywall) as part of a cash grab. I could check out of Scribd, but then I would break a lot of links and it would take a lot of time. So now I feel trapped. It's a terrible feeling.
Goldman is looking at other options, including Docstoc and Rapidshare. Another one worth checking out could be Slideshare, or even potentially Google Docs. However, all this has me thinking again about the wisdom of relying on third parties for such things (even though I do it myself). I do like the ability to display PDF documents, such as legal filings, embedded within a post, but I'm wondering if there are any simple solutions for setting up that sort of thing on your own server. Anyone know of any?
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Filed Under: eric goldman, paywall, user notification
Companies: scribd


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  • identicon
    J.D., 20 Sep 2010 @ 6:48pm

    Scribd - Seems Obvious

    There are a lot of seemingly smart people doing dumb things. Do people really believe that they own their own information when they willingly and freely give it to somebody else that they have no control over? Does this really make sense to anybody?

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    John Schmidt, 20 Sep 2010 @ 6:54pm

    Eric Schmidt is on Colbert tomorrow night.

    Here's the debate, Mike:

    Either you PAY for the privilege for it to be private or you make it freely available under what they call "ad-supported" but, it's actually paid for with tax dollars.

    It's what's called the Tax-funded "CIA-interwebs-gotta-get-em-terrerests-by-selling-snooping/tracking-technology" business model.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    David (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:09pm

    A suggestion.

    I don't know of any simple solution myself, but I suspect that the folks at Super User likely would, if you ask them.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Jon Renaut (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:10pm

    A lot of room in that space

    I'm not sure why the Wordpress model isn't more widely used. You essentially have three options - free and limited hosted at wordpress.com, paid and supported hosted at wordpress.com, or free and whatever you want hosted yourself.

    Document hosting or nearly any sort of web application could function the same way. With the cost of cloud storage dropping daily, it seems like someone should be able to make this model work for tons of useful things, like embeddable PDF hosting.

    I'm currently accepting venture capital to get right on this.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Yogi, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:15pm

      Re: A lot of room in that space

      I agree - what's the big deal in setting up a site? hosting costs are very low, set up is easy, Google crawls everything what else do you need? Wordpress is a good solution.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Karl (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:16pm

    Know of any?

    If you don't mind using Flash, then one option is to go with FlexPaper. It's exactly what you want, but though it claims to be "GPL v3," it's really not (you have to display their logo even on modified versions, and you can't use it for free on a commercial site). Might be worth the $70, though.

    There's also SWFTools, which includes PDF2SWF, and is completely open source. However, this generates a distinct .swf file for each PDF, so I don't know if it's the right solution.

    If you don't want Flash and your site is uses PHP, you might be able to hack something together using Samuraj Data's online coverter and embedding the HTML in an iframe.

    There's also CynergyPDF, but it's only for Joomla-powered websites.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mat, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:22pm

    Have you thought of the idea of PAYING people to host your documents so you can make them available for free?

    You put your documents in the cloud for free then they have no value and you can't really get upset if the people you gave them to choose to do things with them that you don't like.

    You don't get stuff for free - and if you're dumb enough to think that you do then you deserve everything you get. Apparently our "law professor" shouldn't really be trusted to make adult decisions.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    SUNWARD (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:36pm

    web hosting is now cheap. Host the files yourself and you also get to keep control of it. No more problems with suppliers. And it adds to the search ranking of your own site.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    testcore (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:36pm

    Off-topic a bit, but...

    Anyone else notice the quiet disappearance of their TechDirt Crystal Ball? Mine disappeared after the weekend, TD CS hasn't responded to my inquery, seems a bit ironic...

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    abc gum, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:43pm

    So, the cloud has lost its silver lining

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:51pm

    FTP meets my needs.

    I use something called FTP. It's reliable.

    Steps to replicate:
    1.) Buy used computer on craigslist.
    2.) Install TFTP server.
    3.) Connect to interwebs via wired cable (So the Google Car and their legal team that's driving by can't steal your info!)
    4.) Sign up for GoToMyPC and give all your students the login and ability to remotely read the documents.
    5.) Proceed to Cheezburger.
    6.) PROFIT.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:48pm

      Re: FTP meets my needs.

      7) Your ISP deems this 'providing a service' and shuts you down.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Sean T Henry (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 6:52am

      Re: FTP meets my needs.

      If its a university they provide hosting for you so:
      1.) Post doc
      2.) students go to the address and DL it

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    MPAA Shill, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:13pm

    Here's the answer... You can thank me later.

    Eric,

    I have a breakthrough idea for you. You're really going to like this one. Have you considered producing them on DVDs and mailing them to your customers?

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Dan, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:13pm

    Re: Karl

    I would recommend FlexPaper too, sure you have to pay to get rid of the logo if you're using it for commercial purposes but thats fair enough, gotta give them some cred for building a good viewer

    http://flexpaper.devaldi.com

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Karl (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:00pm

      Re: Re: Karl

      My issue with FlexPaper isn't with the product, which actually looks very good (and worth the $70 that Mike would have to pay).

      The issue is that it's supposedly GPL, even though it's not. If you look at the FSF's Categories of free and nonfree software page, it would actually be what used to be called "semifree software," and is now just called "proprietary software."

      Still, that's an issue for the FSF to deal with, not us.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Dan, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:08pm

        Re: Re: Re: Karl

        I don't think they're violating the GPL3 license, I have seen others do the same thing, like FlowPlayer for example:

        http://flowplayer.org/download/index.html

        The GPLv3 allows this and the FSF actually does too;
        http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#HeardOtherLicense

        link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:10am

          Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

          Yes, but unlike FlexPaper, Flowplayer allows commercial use, which is a requirement of the GPL. From their FAQ:
          I'd like to license my code under the GPL, but I'd also like to make it clear that it can't be used for military and/or commercial uses. Can I do this?

          No, because those two goals contradict each other. The GNU GPL is designed specifically to prevent the addition of further restrictions. GPLv3 allows a very limited set of them, in section 7, but any other added restriction can be removed by the user.

          (Emphasis mine.)

          But I guess you're right about the requirement that the logo stay in place. You learn something new every day, I guess.

          We're probably just picking nits at this point. FlexPaper seems like a good program, so even if it was proprietary, it would be worth using IMHO.

          link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:45am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

            No, it allows commercial use. Read what the site says.

            "This is the appropriate option if you are creating a commercial website and you are not prepared to distribute and share the source code of your application under the GPL."

            http://flexpaper.devaldi.com/license.htm

            You can use it for commercial use but you must then release it under the GPL-V3. If you want a different license that allows you to use it for commercial use and keep what you made a secret then you must buy that different license.

            Same thing if you want a license that allows you to bundle it with proprietary software.

            "This is the appropriate license to use if you intend to bundle or ship FlexPaper as part of a product."

            It's released under the GPl-V3, you can do whatever yo want with that provided you maintain the license because the license requires that you do so. If you want a different license, if you want a license that allows you to do something without maintaining the Gpl-V3 license, then you must pay.

            link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 8:05am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

              Aha. So the commercial license is only required, if:

              1. You are using it on a commercial site;
              2. You modify the program; and
              3. You do not release these modifications under the GPL.

              Correct?

              It seems someone like Mike wouldn't have to pay for a commercial license, then?

              link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 8:20am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

                You are right.

                link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 8:38am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

                  Ah, I must've misread the license terms the first time round.

                  It sounds like we have a winner, then. Hop to it, Masnick!

                  link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:42am

          Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

          The logo can always be freely removed and redistributed under the GPL license (but then you must give it a different name so that people know it's a mod). I see no good reason to do it but a copy under that license can be.

          link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:28pm

    Maybe the infringement (both patent and copyright) legal expenses makes it not plausible to do something like this for free?

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    sd, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:12pm

    embed

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:27pm

    Maybe there is a way to put it on Google Books?


    "Can Authors and Publishers distribute their works under the settlement for free, under a Creative Commons license or otherwise?
    Yes. Rightsholders are free to set any price for their work including the ability to distribute their work free of charge. If you are interested in distributing your work for free, including under a Creative Commons license, then you should claim your Book on the Claim Form and, on the “Manage Your Books” page, fill in the box asking you to specify your sale price for the book at “zero.” In the future, the Claim Form will also provide an option for you to offer your Book under a Creative Commons license, and you should check the Claim Form periodically for that option to appear. The Registry will inform Google of your request, and Google will include information on its web site so that end users are aware of the licensing terms chosen by you. Rightsholders are also free to authorize Google directly to distribute their book through a Creative Commons license."

    http://www.googlebooksettlement.com/help/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=118704#q43f

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Chunky Vomit, 21 Sep 2010 @ 2:59am

    I guess there is something of a Catch 22 here. After all, he did put the documents on servers that don't belong to him.

    I wonder: is there a reason why Google Docs isn't an option here? I realize that the service has its limitations, but I have had great luck with sharing documents on that service.

    I wonder if they index documents open to the entire web?

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Spam scribd, 21 Sep 2010 @ 5:27am

    not really paywall

    it's not really a 100% paywall, you get free access if you upload a document back.

    any document works, really...
    including any pdf that says only "scribd sucks" :D


    try it, scribd just opened the flood gates for a whoop-ass of document spam :p

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Rick Powell, 21 Sep 2010 @ 5:52am

    Embedding Google Docs in WordPress

    If you're using WordPress, there's at least one plugin that allows embedding of both public and private documents: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/inline-google-docs/ It works pretty well. Of course, then you'd have to trust Google.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Coises (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:51am

    OBJECT tag?

    I do like the ability to display PDF documents, such as legal filings, embedded within a post, but I'm wondering if there are any simple solutions for setting up that sort of thing on your own server. Anyone know of any?

    Does anything prevent you from storing the files on your own server and using an OBJECT tag in your posts?

    This page has instructions for using the OBJECT tag to embed a PDF.

    The link on that page to the explanation of PDF Open Parameters is stale, but here is a PDF that explains PDF Open Parameters.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 8:20am

      Re: OBJECT tag?

      Does anything prevent you from storing the files on your own server and using an OBJECT tag in your posts?

      The fact that users must have the Acrobat plugin installed. Naturally, this causes browser incompatibility issues. See the "Compatibility" section of the PDFObject guide.

      Incidentally, PDFObject seems like it would be useful if you want to go this route, as it gets around most browser limitations using JavaScript.

      But I should note that I have Acrobat installed, and I can't view the PDF in my browser (Chrome), even using PDFObject.

      There's also one other, possibly major, drawback: No search engine will index anything in an OBJECT tag. Of course, that applies to Flash as well. If that's a worry, you'd have to convert the PDF into HTML before displaying it.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        mariush (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 11:01am

        Re: Re: OBJECT tag?

        Lots of people disable Adobe Acrobat from automatically opening documents in the page because of all the vulnerabilities and critical bugs it has.

        Plus, it loads very slow and would annoy users if you embed 10 pdf files on a single page.

        Flash is more reasonable as I can just use the Flashblock extension for Firefox to block all flash on the page and, if I'm interested in seeing the PDF file, I can just click on the flash icon for that object and unblock it without reloading the page, and I can then see it loading in the Flash object on the page.

        link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    weneedhelp (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:56am

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 10:33am

    I am quite disappointed that Mr. Goldman cast aside professional decorum and engaged in a public rant that ill serves his position as a member of academia.

    Now that he has put emotion before reason, perhaps he will realize that reversing the two and dealing directly with the site will yield the results he wants.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:46pm

      Re:

      Yes, he should just be vaguely arrogant and elitist, like a certain anonymous lawyer.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 12:47pm

    You can host the documents yourself, but use an external viewer application in an iframe to embed them. Google provides a viewer and so does Zoho.

    Google viewer: https://docs.google.com/viewer
    Zoho viewer: http://viewer.zoho.com/home.do

    It might be worthwhile to include a direct dl link to the document if possible as a backup.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 1:22pm

    Yes just host the documents yourself, then you have control over them.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Rod, 3 Oct 2010 @ 11:51pm

    Scribd Alternative

    Use http://www.notelog.com/ if you're looking to post and share your docs. If your used to using scribd this is the best alternative because your technically still using scbrid on this site. The site is academic based, but anyone can create an account outside of academics by creating an expert account. It's absolutely free...

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Eric, 16 Apr 2013 @ 6:59pm

    idea

    p2p filesharing programs. There are a couple of scribd alternatives out there.

    link to this | view in chronology ]


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