Boy Scout Magazine Says Don't Listen To Legally Burned CDs, As They're Too Similar To Piracy
from the apparently,-someone-failed-their-legal-merit-badge dept
Four years ago, the MPAA worked with the local Los Angeles chapter of the Boy Scouts of America to create a special "activity patch" for Boy Scouts to repeat propaganda about how evil file sharing is. For some reason, that story got renewed attention earlier this year, when a few sources came across the 2006 story without checking the date on it. While there's really nothing new on that story, it does appear that the Boy Scouts are making some absolutely ridiculous suggestions to parents about how to talk to your kids about copyright issues.That link is to an article in the latest issue of Scouting Magazine, supposedly about the "ethics" of file sharing, and how parents should talk to their children about it. And, yet, it's entirely one-sided, quoting the RIAA's claims about "losses," but oddly leaving out the stacks upon stacks upon stacks upon stacks of research showing that musicians are making more money these days, via alternative business models. You would think that would be a relevant part of the discussion... but it's totally absent. Someone, apparently, failed their "research the facts" merit badge.
But where the article goes totally off the rails is in telling parents that their children are too stupid to understand the nuances of copyright law, and because of that, they should take an extreme position: one so extreme that they shouldn't even listen to legally burned CDs:
So how can Scouters teach ethical behavior related to music downloading? One way: Set a good example. When you haul around Scouts in your car, for example, only play CDs that you've purchased. If you play CDs that you've burned--even if they're legal--your Scouts may not recognize the difference between those and the pirated CDs friends have given them.The article also tries to blame musicians who embrace alternative business models for making the situation more confusing:
Part of the problem, [Dr. Tony] Aretz says, lies in the Internet's free-for-all nature, where users get all sorts of content free--even information from newspapers that they would have to pay for in the real world. Bands like Radiohead have further complicated the situation by giving their music away or offering it on a "pay what you want" basis.Note to Aretz and Scouting magazine: the internet is the real world too. And bands like Radiohead haven't "further complicated the situation." They've helped make it clear that there are smart business models that can be embraced while not turning your fans into criminals. It would seem like that's a rather important lesson one should teach Boy Scouts.
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Filed Under: boy scouts, ethics, piracy
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Re:
To get around this ethical problem, I attach the actual CD to my iPod with rubber bands whenever I listen to songs from that CD. Yes, it's time consuming and a royal pain in the butt, but it makes me feel good inside.
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Re: Re:
That's exactly the kind of initiative it takes to be an Eagle!
FTFT
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Re: Re:
I was going to say something similar, but it would have been less funny.
Though maybe they shouldn't be advising parents to haul scouts around in their cars either, as it's just a few small steps away from child abduction.
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Re:
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Legal action
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Their words, not mine.
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Ok, so...
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Man, it was so much easier when the RIAA had the monopoly and the consumer had zero choice other than giving the money to them. Now they actually have to innovate and adapt.
Complicated!
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So what they're saying is that your little scouts might *gasp* be smart enough to realize that there is no practical difference between CDs that you've burned and CDs that you've purchased. It's like "legitimate" copies of music are just higher priced arbitrarily...
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Re:
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You want to really piss the scouts off?
That'll do, pig....
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Re: You want to really piss the scouts off?
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Re: Re: You want to really piss the scouts off?
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What about campfire songs?
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Re: What about campfire songs?
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Re: What about campfire songs?
I do find it appalling that the Boy Scouts of America as an organization would even take a stance on this issue. It has nothing to do with scouting or it's principals so they have no business making an opinion on it one way or another. It's very sad.
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Re: Re: What about campfire songs?
However, the Boy Scouts of America as an organization takes a stance on everything; religion, sexuality, even politics. I'm not surprised they took a stance, I'm surprised it took so long.
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Re: Re: Re: What about campfire songs?
"but I strongly agree with a lot of the idiotic opinions"
that's definitely supposed to say disagree.
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Friggin' rediculous
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Re: Friggin' rediculous
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What?
I find this very disappointing, people watering down the Scouts again. Misinformation, I wonder how much they got in donations from RIAA and even the MPAA
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Re: What?
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Re:
It's the adults in the organization that are mindlessly mouthing what's being fed to them, not "the younger ones."
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Dry rot at the top.
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Query
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unfair to the scouts
Yes, Dr. Aretz has a confused outlook on copyright law. And the connection he makes between plagiarism (which is about intellectual honesty) and piracy (theft) is inapt.
Yes, Pavarotti is dead wrong about the music business. But he is a great artist, so I forgive his short-sightedness.
And yes, it is regrettable that the scouts have allied themselves with a business lobby group that is "educating" young people on a very contentious public policy matter.
Nevertheless, the basic point that the article is trying to make is that adult scout leaders should be careful about the messages they are sending to young kids in their care. I agree with that message. Scouting-age kids don't know about space-shifting, or time-shifting, or fair use, or content licensing, or the difference between a performance right and a distribution right, or any of that stuff. They don't know about the stress that copyright law is under right now, they don't know that the artist and the recording company might have very different views on piracy, they don't know about all the stuff that is discussed on your blog every day. Kids definitely should not be taught one industry's position on copyright law as part of boy scouts.
All these kids know is that they like music. I think that when kids see an adult scout leader put a burned CD into a CD player they have a vague sense that the leader might be doing something wrong. This vague sense that the leader has done something wrong is the same as what happens if the leader smokes a cigarette, drinks alcohol, curses, says an unkind thing about another person, burps, farts, whatever. These things are all entirely lawful, but kids have been taught that these things are bad. The idea that burning a CD is "bad" comes from outside scouting -- kids already have a sense (perhaps mistaken in many instances) that it is not right. So, when the scout leader plays that burned CD, he or she loses a little bit of credibility, a little bit of trust, from the kids. And this makes it more difficult for the leader/adult to speak with conviction about all of the other values that scouting stands for.
I've been in scouts for a while. I'm a den leader for my seven-year-old son, the youngest of my six children. We've never talked about file-sharing or piracy or any of that stuff. I doubt we ever will. But we have talked about integrity and honesty, hard work, and respect for public institutions and for each other. A scout leader can't effectively communicate these values if the kids think he or she is cutting corners in his or her personal life. Burning CDs is one of those areas where appearances matter. At least I think so. Kids don't know copyright law, but every kid over the age of five knows the word "hypocrite."
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Re: unfair to the scouts
You're absolutely right. But the solution is not to pretend that burning your iTunes or Amazon songs onto CD is illegal. Nor is the solution to criticize bands such as Radiohead for coming up with alternative business models.
The solution is much more difficult, but needs to be done: Teach the truth. It's perfectly acceptable to burn your legally obtained music on CDs. It's perfectly legal for bands to experiment with different business models.
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Re: unfair to the scouts
Complete bullshit. If, and this is a big if, your kids even notice that your CDs are burned it's only because they're confused about why you aren't using an iPod.
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Re: unfair to the scouts
"Kids don't know copyright law, but every kid over the age of five knows the word "hypocrite."
Yes, and they also know the word fair as well. They also know all their life we scolded them for not sharing, or being selfish. Sending mixed signals is detrimental, and will convince them quicker that Dad or Mom is a hypocrite.
"I think that when kids see an adult scout leader put a burned CD into a CD player they have a vague sense that the leader might be doing something wrong." What? Your kidding right? That is so wrong in itself. SIGH. Then im sorry TOT, its time to teach them that they have a right, at least right now, to be able to make an archival copy of legally purchased music/movie, etc, and doing so is not wrong.
"We've never talked about file-sharing or piracy or any of that stuff." - Its time. (I was in scouts, my Mom was a den mother, I actively participate with my nephews both 7, and my daughter will be a Brownie/girl scout, as her mother, and grand mother were.)
I doubt we ever will. - That is sad. How will they learn, and maybe help to make changes in the right direction?
I believe more than ever parents need to step up and teach their children things like this earlier. Its too late at 20 or 40 to become aware as to what is going on. Your kids mentioned are 7, my baby girl is 2.5, what will life be like for them when they reach our age? Pretty bad unless we get them active younger. Thanks and have a great weekend.
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Re: unfair to the scouts
> time-shifting, or fair use, or content licensing, or the
> difference between a performance right and a distribution
> right, or any of that stuff.
Well then THEY SHOULD BE TAUGHT. Teach them at the same time they are learning how to fold the flag and fire a rifle. Don't water anything down and don't treat them like idiots.
Although I would dispute the idea that Scouting age kids don't understand these sorts of things. They probably understand them better or are at least are better able to.
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Antiquated much?
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Re: Antiquated much?
What other organization out there is as widely recognized for instilling respect, responsibility and life skills in the youth of this country?
Would you suggest 4H? They're a recognizable name. But is an organization dedicated to homemaking and animal husbandry any more relevant in this day and age?
The military, maybe? Sorry; they won't take you until you're old enough to have so thoroughly screwed up your life that they won't want you.
You can walk into any job interview, say "I'm an Eagle Scout" and walk out with your first promotion. What other membership, what other achievement, gets you that?
There isn't one.
Michael Rainey
Assistant Scoutmaster
Troop 444, Catalina Council, BSA
/hardcore 444
/be prepared
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Re: Re: Antiquated much?
Please don't get people wrong when they attack some of the policies of the Organization. From the inside I am sure there are many examples of how this kind of "suggestion" from leadership is quietly ignored or corrected, but from the outside the entire Scouting system looks very monolithic.
If you want to have a future, if you want the Scouts to have a future, you have to fight from within for reform. Escape industry-controlled "advice", embrace inclusiveness, reform the way GBLT Scouts and Scoutmasters are treated.
Every time scout leadership lets things like this mag' article happen, this becomes less true.
Every "morally straight" (You will maintain honest and open relationships with others) wanna-be scout who is turned away for being gay makes this less true.
If you, and your Scoutmaster, and all of your scouts and scout families, do not work to change this "I'm an Eagle Scout" will only be more synonymous with "I am indoctrinated in religious and social bigotry and discrimination"
and for your information, my father is an Eagle Scout and spent several years as a Webelo Scoutmaster. He left when the church who hosted the space started to insist on more religious interference. (the church-scouting connection is also troubling for many)
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Re: Re: Re: Antiquated much?
Personally, I was a Boy Scout for many years.... I got seriously tired of them when I started being harassed because I was honest about being an Atheist and not adhering to religious morality, but only my own 5 "Rules of Morality".
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Illustration by Thomas Fuchs
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How about this message? "Parents: take the time, do some research, think through the issues that are facing your kids. Tell them what you think. Ask them what they think. Be honest and respectful, and expect the same from them."
Oh, sorry, too much like work? Ok, get back to the TV / Computer / Work / Bar...
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Class
You would be surprised how fast the youngins catch on.
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By the time they get around to mp3s, we'll be onto the next format.
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What a crock!
What a crock!
Thieving is thieving, pure and simple.
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Re: What a crock!
No one said anything like that. Please read again.
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I've told everyone I meet to NOT allow their childrren to join the Boy Scouts and instead join the numerous other organizations that do not rely on discrimination and denial of progress, such as the Boy's and Girl's Clubs.
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Completely agree - it is perfidious sites like http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/ and http://scouts.org.uk/magazine that insist on giving away their content for free which are the problem. Something should be done to protect the children!
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not calm
For further reading, click the links in the "free curriculum" section of the article. Both organizations are fronts for RIAA and benefit from extortionate copyright.
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Huh?
Yes, they have further complicated the situation by providing their music as a free download. It may be a smart business model, but it's still confusing to anyone who sees that they can get Band A's music for free at website A and Band B's music for free at website B.
If Band A is Radiohead, that's legal. If Band B is most other bands, it's illegal. That's the definition of complicating the issue.
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too much bCKWARD NEGATIVITY ABOUT NORMAL LIFE WE ARE ALL ANIMALS LAWS WONT OR SHOULD NEVER STOP A SEXUAL BOND SHARE OR NO SHARE TOO MANY SICKMINDES PEOPLE NATURE IS ALWAYS IN FRONT OF US AND ALWAYS WILL ITS STRONGER THAN ANY ADDICTION SO CALLED
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