Warner Bros. Claims That Annoying Customers With 28-Day Rental Delay Is Working
from the correlation? dept
Warner Bros. studio was among the more adamant about getting Netflix, Redbox and others to delay rentals of movies until 28-days after the DVD release, in the hopes that it would drive more people to buy. We suggested that was pissing off customers, just at a time when they're discovering they have (perhaps not very legal) alternatives, and it probably isn't a great business strategy. However, Khyle points us to the news that Warner Bros. CFO is claiming success with the program, claiming that DVD sales are up 15% following this strategy.Of course, that leaves out all sorts of important details. Beyond the simple correlation ≠ causation issue, there are so many other variables here, I'd be hesitant to believe that the higher sales were due mostly to this delay. Perhaps there was just a popular movie that people really wanted to own when it came out. Or perhaps there were other promotions. Or, maybe, it's just a dead cat bounce. Either way, let's wait and see before declaring that pissing off your customers so much is a good idea.
The best part, though, might be the confident quote from the guy:
"You make money in the film business by putting your content in appropriate windows that matches up with the way consumers like to use it."Thing is, he's got it wrong. It's not the "windows," but the different convenience and values that people consider. You can offer "the way consumers like to use it," all at the same time, if you want. The studios aren't doing this because they're so in love with the "windowing" system as a way to price differentiate, that they keep wanting to introduce more and more windows. At some point they'll realize that this is really dangerous short-term thinking. Pissing off people eventually comes back to bite you.
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Filed Under: delays, movies, windows
Companies: netflix, redbox, warner bros.
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it may be working for Netflix
This is a win for Netflix and a win for the consumer in that the expanded streaming is what the consumer wants (or at least what I and my friends want). Seriously, who actually uses the DVDs from Netflix anymore?
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/10/06/netflix.agrees.28.day.sony.delay.for.more.streams/
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Re: it may be working for Netflix
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Re: it may be working for Netflix
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oH I don't know
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Re: oH I don't know
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They need to get over themselves.
Not a big deal really.
The studios have an overinflated sense of their importance and the value of their product.
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Re: They need to get over themselves.
If I've already seen the movie, loved it, and want to own it so I can watch it again and again, I'll wait until it's in the stores and not bother renting it. There are very few movies in this category. I don't own many movies for this reason.
Such release windows don't influence my buying behavior because I don't usually buy DVDs.
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Re: oH I don't know
I still love her though :)
On the other hand I love how the amount of streaming options has boomed for Netflix.
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Why are you complaining?
I know it's hard to imagine, but Mike, for a moment, imagine having a Pizza delivered and as a "most valuable customer" you get a coupon for a "Still In The Theater" rental deal that can be streamed to your TV. With this new window, this is very much possible!
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Re: Why are you complaining?
thats what the customer says.
I'm the customer. thats what I just said.
you want to know why? cuase you just made my experience worse, and it cost me by adding in extra overhead.
so fuck you.
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Re: Why are you complaining?
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Re: Why are you complaining?
First, you're in marketing so its easy to just dismiss everything you say as spin and conjecture. And you don't understand your audience so your idea is flawed; usually marketers what to get their product in the hands of as many people as they can. Windows limit consumption. Period. They are counter intuitive to what marketing wants.
But beyond that, you're actually saying that increasing your costs (by hiring people) just to "educate" them on the movie being available for purchase is the way to a profitable business. Why would you increase your costs like that? You just hired over a million dollars in resources on top of your normal production costs (figure $80 to $125k base salary & double that for benefits). And its only going to net you a few sales, if that, because people will know it will be out on Netflix for rental or stream for free in a month.
Those that want to buy the physical copy (or digital if they want) are going to do so with or without the window. Those who would never buy the DVD download illegally if they want it right away or wait for Netflix - 28 days in a queue of 100s of movies isn't going to phase ANYONE.
So you just increased your costs and got nothing for it. Good job!
Also, your promotion example ignores the fact the movie is already available for free on the internet. And streaming to a TV will happen with or without a coupon.
Your job as a marketer is to get that movie to as many eyeballs as possible. Don't limit it by DRM, windows, targeted release partners, or whatever the heck they are.
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Re: Why are you complaining?
You see, it is all about giving the customer choice.
As to the first half of your comment, did not understand what you were talking about. Can you rewrite into some semblance of loigic, or even English.
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Re: Why are you complaining?
You see, it is all about giving the customer choice.
As to the first half of your comment, did not understand what you were talking about. Can you rewrite into some semblance of loigic, or even English.
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Re: Why are you complaining?
Of course you don't - that's why you're the problem.
"The extra 28 days mean I will have to add people under me to find ways to educate customers that they can get the movie earlier"
It's been said already, but f*ck you. I don't need "educating", I just need the product I wish to see. If I on't already wish to buy it at full price, I will either rent it or wait 6 months for the price to drop. YOU need educating as to why withholding your product is a great incentive for people to "pirate".
"Along with creating special content, co-op marketing and T-Shirt deals, I should be able to hire ten to twenty people to take advantage of the new release window. "
Why, exactly, does forcing people to wait for a rental make this possible? Be specific - I know you're in marketing so it might be hard to not bullshit, but try to respond without pretending that withholding product from me is somehow beneficial to me.
"I know it's hard to imagine, but Mike, for a moment, imagine having a Pizza delivered and as a "most valuable customer" you get a coupon for a "Still In The Theater" rental deal that can be streamed to your TV. With this new window, this is very much possible!"
Again, why is this not possible without the window?
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Re: Why are you complaining?
That's why release windows don't make any sense! Because it hampers with what many consumers want.
And P2P networks are more than happy to satisfy that demand.
BTW, I must congratulate the people behind Inception.
It apparently took about 3 weeks before that movie turned up on p2p networks in a decent enough quality. (and before anyone condemns me, I was merely curious how long it would take, I had already watched the movie twice in the cinema)
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Re: Re: Why are you complaining?
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The Power of You
What seems to missing from this 28 rental delay discussion is the concept of restraint of trade, or something similar. With the free-market companies are not supposed to collude to restrict consumer actions. This type of collusion along with ever more onerous so-called intellectual property is reducing the consumer to a "managed" revenue unit.
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Re: The Power of You
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Do Stop Being Such Sheeple
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Re: Do Stop Being Such Sheeple
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Re: Re: Do Stop Being Such Sheeple
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Re: Do Stop Being Such Sheeple
Then, after a year or so, I might consider getting the game. I mean, if the game survived that long being supported by developers and the community, then it must be really worth it.
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Re: Re: Do Stop Being Such Sheeple
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Rule No. 1 in business
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sound
Netflix *says* 5.1 streaming is coming. We'll see how it compressed it is, or if Comcast mangles it.
Then again, maybe that's just what the business-types want: a choice between great sound and watching at home. If so, that will be the day movies die for me.
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28 what days for what?
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Really? Netflix doesn't have Dolby Digital?
You can get 5.1 audio over streaming with DirecTV On Demand in 1080p and it works fine on a non-throttled 5MB DSL line. Just need to let it stream at the beginning of the movie or show for 30 seconds, and you're good to go.
I rented the original "WallStreet" from 1984 about a month ago to determine if I wanted to see the newly released "Wallstreet" in the theater. Over DSL it worked fine.
But then we changed to Comcast for their High Speed 16MB internet special and it had to buffer several times during the movie.
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You misunderstand, WB Suit:
You took your movie out of an appropriate window (Netflix first 30 days) and probably also took out the next most viable one (Netflix instant streaming).
You then act all shocked when I bypass an inappropriate window (overpriced silver coasters that my kids eat) and go directly to the best remaining option (Usenet + SabNzbd!).
You fail, sir. You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!
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28 days of waiting? That's fine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
Sorry WB, but you lose. Get off the stage.
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You misunderstand, WB Suit:
You took your movie out of an appropriate window (Netflix first 30 days) and probably also took out the next most viable one (Netflix instant streaming).
You then act all shocked when I bypass an inappropriate window (overpriced silver coasters that my kids eat) and go directly to the best remaining option (Usenet + SabNzbd!).
You fail, sir. You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!
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You think that people doing this as a hobby or for the lulz would do a worst job than professionals, nope is the other way around and until that changes piracy will be big and scary for a lot of folks.
What will those people say when someone do a comparison of the pirated product and the original and find out that the pirates are doing a better job at delivering the content in higher quality?
Will they call the spin doctor's to smooze things?
Because right now everyone can see how they are being duped, they just need to compare it with the competition and does not look good for the monopolists.
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It's terribly amusing though watching distribution models crumble before our eyes. I haven't been in a theater in years, and likely never will visit one again. I haven't owned a TV in 11 years, and the idea of putting a large display in my home is as foreign to me as buying a typewriter.
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Next time check your facts, not your pre-concieved notions
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Re: Next time check your facts, not your pre-concieved notions
And that is different from the other years how?
http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/annual/2009.php
Don't tell me a 10 points is statiscally relevant
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Re: Next time check your facts, not your pre-concieved notions
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Re: Next time check your facts, not your pre-concieved notions
Correlation != causation.
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Re: Next time check your facts, not your pre-concieved notions
Your stupidity speaks for itself, I suppose.
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Re: Next time check your facts, not your pre-concieved notions
...and?
What were the movies before it went into effect? Several of the films mentioned were surprisingly high box office successes at the theatrical releases - how does this compare with the previous movies?
Withholding product from customers does NOT make them want to buy. pirate, maybe, but not buy. It's as equally likely that the movies in question were just popular and more importantly GOOD films that people wanted to buy.
"I think the evidence speaks for itself."
When you come up with some actual evidence rather than random correlation, we'll see. You people have yet to present any actual evidence.
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Re: Re: Why are you complaining?
We work on an "As Is" basis. And that's what you get for free. My company's normal rate is currently $350 an hour.
However, you may benefit from our $800 an hour package which includes a "interpreter" and also a "comprehension assistant".
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28 day rental delay
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These aren't Netflix customers, who are happy at home streaming really good movies from the last 100 years of filmmaking, not just that latest garbage from Hollywood. They really don't care about a 28 day window.
It's nice not having shelf fulls of discs anymore.
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Idiots all...
IF... (and that's a BIG IF)... it's a movie you really want. And even if it was available on Netflix, I'd STILL buy it for the skipped scenes, alternate endings, uncut versions, etc.
That's the key. OFFER value. I like value.
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I like the above poster...
Heres how it works...
As a consumer, I see a company BLATANTLY make a money grab that costs me more, and causes inconvienence to me. What do I do?
I torrent every movie from Warner Bros from now on, and I will never give them my money again.
I like the idea of waiting until its on sale or looking to a garage sale, in this economy, there are a lot of other people who could use your money OTHER THAN WB CEOs. Nuff said.
Back to my torrenting, you should all do it, in silent yet effective protest against the machine. I will fin with a nice quote...
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, 1964.
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piss off the customers
it is sad tha you the customers who have the money have give up your power to the greed of these corporation
you the buying people dont have no power any more you bend and give your money freely to these greedy corporation that have no respect for you as a buy public
you are wrong when you say we who wait for netflix are cheap you are oh so wrong we have the power and refuse to give the greedy corporation we have the patience and we lose less than you who are bain wash on you toss the dvd in your target basket and you see it what else are you going to do with it you cannot sell it and regain your money it stays there and gather dust SO WHO IS THE FOOL my friends not us cheap and waiting the 28 days!!!!!!!!!
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piss off the customers
it is sad tha you the customers who have the money have give up your power to the greed of these corporation
you the buying people dont have no power any more you bend and give your money freely to these greedy corporation that have no respect for you as a buy public
you are wrong when you say we who wait for netflix are cheap you are oh so wrong we have the power and refuse to give the greedy corporation we have the patience and we lose less than you who are bain wash on you toss the dvd in your target basket and you see it what else are you going to do with it you cannot sell it and regain your money it stays there and gather dust SO WHO IS THE FOOL my friends not us cheap and waiting the 28 days!!!!!!!!!
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But it may work, even if it is annoying.
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1) Delay Pisses off consumers and drives them download movie illegally.
2) As has been said over and over and over again on techdirt that piracy tends to lead to more sales.
The more you piss people off and make them resort to downloading the better your sales do. While they cant just outright admit it cause people like the mpaa would be all over them. They are actually making a wise business decision.
Annoying Practices -> Piracy -> Profit
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Re:
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i still think the consumer wins
Obviously it's because Netflix is looking forward. More and more entertainment is moving to streaming, so increasing their access to movie catalogs for streaming (at a lower price to them as well) definitely benefits the consumer and Netflix.
So for as dumb as it seems for Hollywood add another window, it seems like a smart move by Netflix to leverage this window to their advantage for streams.
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Re:
The second is accessibility. DRM screws you royally, and so far nobody's offering legal, DRM free, non-public domain downloaded movies to my knowledge. The streams work on a greater number of systems. Netflix also offers access through a range of devices - anything from a Wii to certain models of TV. Try doing that with downloaded media.
The third is convenience. When you download, you have to wait for the download to finish. So, pick your movie, maybe wait an hour or 2 depending on your connection speed then watch. With streaming, you wait a few seconds for buffering, then you're watching it.
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Re: Re:
No, you are not. Depending on the connection speed.
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I was wondering why the selection @netfix sux
Other then that the movie stram was unrerliable so I suspect my cable company was messing up the transfer.
Too bad. It would have kept a lot of people off torrents.
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28 Day delay on rentals
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