Guy Finds FBI Tracking Device On Car, Posts Pics Online... FBI Shows Up Demanding It Back
from the well-that-confirms-it... dept
Just a couple weeks ago, we had written about a federal lawsuit concerning whether or not the Justice Department needs a warrant to put a tracking device on cars. In a very prescient manner, a bunch of our commenters started discussing what would happen if they found such a device on their car, and whether or not it would be legal to remove it. Well, now we have a case of exactly that happening.Apparently a guy named Yasir Afifi, who lives in Silicon Valley, discovered a strange device on his car, when he took it in for an oil change. The friend he was with took some photos and posted them to Reddit, asking if it meant the FBI was after them... or if it was a bomb:
Afifi considered selling the device on Craigslist before the FBI showed up. He was in his apartment Tuesday afternoon when a roommate told him "two sneaky-looking people" were near his car. Afifi, already heading out for an appointment, encountered a man and woman looking his vehicle outside. The man asked if Afifi knew his registration tag was expired. When Afifi asked if it bothered him, the man just smiled. Afifi got into his car and headed for the parking lot exit when two SUVs pulled up with flashing lights carrying four police officers in bullet-proof vests.The full story is a lot longer, and a fascinating read, so head over to that link to check it out. It also suggests some of the reasons why the FBI might be watching Afifi -- who says he already knows he's on the federal watchlist -- as well as concerns from the ACLU over the whole thing. Wired also spoke to an ex-FBI agent who thought that the FBI almost certainly would have gotten a warrant to install the device (though, given all the lawsuits, it seems they don't always do so...) and who also pointed out that this particular device is really old. The newer devices, apparently, are much harder to find. They don't come with their own battery pack, but run off the car's battery, and are much more well hidden.
The agent who initially spoke with Afifi identified himself then as Vincent and told Afifi, "We're here to recover the device you found on your vehicle. It's federal property. It's an expensive piece, and we need it right now."
Afifi asked, "Are you the guys that put it there?" and the agent replied, "Yeah, I put it there." He told Afifi, "We're going to make this much more difficult for you if you don't cooperate."
Either way, apparently this gives the FBI's answer to what happens if you find the device. The friend on Reddit claimed they had thought about throwing it in a lake, or even just putting it on another car, "but when you come home to 2 stoned off their asses people who are hearing things in the device and convinced its a bomb you just gotta be sure."
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Question...
Any chance that his runs afoul of laws, constitutional or otherwise, of law enforcement misappropriating lawfully owned property?
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Re: Question...
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"I found it on my car, it's mine. If you'd like I'll sell you my unidentified device at a very reasonable rate."
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Re: Question...
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Re: Re: Question...
It is NOT a violation of someone's rights to put a camera in a place, even a BATHROOM, where you own the building and are just RENTING IT to a tenant.
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Re: Re: Re: Question...
> even a BATHROOM, where you own the building and are just RENTING
> IT to a tenant.
Actually, in many places it is a crime. Haven't you been paying attention to the news lately-- the Rutgers student who webcammed him dorm roommate having a gay romance?
The two kids have been charged under New Jerseys privacy laws with criminal violations. The same laws would apply to a landlord clandestinely spying on the tenants.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Question...
Yeah go ahead and say it... "A hate crime because the guy was gay" [roll eyes here]
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camera in shower?
But an honest attorney, if he can prove it, she'd own that home and more!
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f.b.i. tracker
Then an honest agent might do something as a means to.protect the guy given anti arab sentiments.
Which some may not know this, but there's groups as neighbors, others who're into things that'll do the same thing in an area. May simply use a cell phone so they can listen in too. Employers, coworkers trying to find what they can,.landlords,.snoopy neighbors, the list is endless. Which all qualify as stalking if a person experiences bad situations and things. But there's the issue of proving it in court. Where the Constitution calls it the burden of proof.
Like one said if I found such on my.vehicle or hidden within the structure, I'd most likely simply take it off and throw it in a river. Where it's my vehicle and anything I don't want on it or in it, I have justification to remove and dispose of. As a person has the right to be secure in their person,.paper and effects. The effect is my.vehicle or my home. Find something I don't know what it is, I'd suspect others with nose problems or desiring to do something wrong.
Better yet, attatch it to a hibernating bear. Or anything of similiar nature.
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Re: Question...
It was a lot of "it's technically legal but...".
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Re: Question...
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Embarrassing
Gotta be so embarrassing.
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Re:
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Re:
Show it to some geek friends and let them make a nearly identical dummy, then put it next to the real one on the car.
You vs FBI, 1-0 :D
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If they wanted the device so badly, they should have just approached him (with the appropriate precautions, of course) and demanded the device. Even if they had to bring in the SWAT or the army for the job, it would be a lot better than hiding and lying.
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Re:
That is asking for a severe problem.
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The spooks..
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Re: The spooks..
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Oct 8th, 2010 @ 11:17am
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Tag pullover
Having a car with expired tags is perfectly legal.
It's the driving that's an infraction.
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Re: Tag pullover
Failure to pay and report your registration status can result in a suspended license.
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Re: Tag pullover
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I would have had fun with it
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This is vandalism
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Re: This is vandalism
I hope people actually know the difference.
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It's an older model.
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Re: It's an older model.
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Re:
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Too bad
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Re: Too bad
Note: Not recommended if the found device is a bomb.
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Re: Re: Too bad
From the comments in that post.
Actually, that's probably a good idea. Better than smashing it, give the FBI bad publicity. I'm sure they would much rather I smash the device than to give them bad publicity over it. If I smash it they may try to make me pay for it and even if they don't make me pay for it I'm sure the lack of bad publicity is worth more to them then the device. If I give them bad publicity what can they do? I'll tell a judge I didn't know it wasn't a bomb, I don't know the difference between a tracking device and a bomb. I wanted to be safe and so I called the bomb squad. Call them from your cell phone and when they show up stay like 300 feet away from the building and explain to them where the device is. Let the news media broadcast the whole thing.
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Re: Re: Re: Too bad
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Oops
Serves me right for not noticing dates.
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Re: Oops
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Why not have a little fun
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Re: Why not have a little fun
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The Line Between Rights and Laws Fades....
Imagine if they filed against him for tampering with police evidence or obstructing an investigation... He would never win.
Therein lies the problem.
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Re: The Line Between Rights and Laws Fades....
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Re: The Line Between Rights and Laws Fades....
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Re: The Line Between Rights and Laws Fades....
If you think the FBI controls the courts, you're nuts.
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Re: The Line Between Rights and Laws Fades....
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Re: The Line Between Rights and Laws Fades....
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If a warrant was granted I think an important question is was there a good reason for the warrant to be granted. If not then the law should require a warrant.
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" One of the agents produced a printout of a blog post that Afifi’s friend Khaled allegedly wrote a couple of months ago. It had “something to do with a mall or a bomb,†Afifi said. He hadn’t seen it before and doesn’t know the details of what it said."
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ciiag/so_if_my_deodorant_could_be_a_bomb_why_ar e_you/c0sve5q
The post in question, which is apparently enough to start an FBI investigation (if you're a brown person).
"bombing a mall seems so easy to do. i mean all you really need is a bomb, a regular outfit so you arent the crazy guy in a trench coat trying to blow up a mall and a shopping bag. i mean if terrorism were actually a legitimate threat, think about how many fucking malls would have blown up already.. you can put a bag in a million different places, there would be no way to foresee the next target, and really no way to prevent it unless CTU gets some intel at the last minute in which case every city but LA is fucked...so...yea...now i'm surely bugged : /"
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Much of what the kid said didn't make much since. This thing could have been a joke by the kid to make the FBI look dumb or something? Seems unlikely though but the kids story also seems a bit off.
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Re: Re:
How do you know you weren't?
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Proves how utterly ignorant and evil the feds are.
Common sense is completely lacking in the rogue treason for profit industry, whether it's making landmines, armed drones to murder children with, militarizing the private armies or giving diplomatic immunity to mercenaries, no oversight never any justice. Just look at blackwater.
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Not going there
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better idea
The real fun would happen when you start to understand what is there. That device is essentially a GPS receiver, and a data radio. Unless the manufacturer has been rolling their own receivers, dollars to doughnuts, the receiver chip talks to the data radio via a serial protocol. My recommendation would be to cut the serial line from the GPS chip and take a little computer or even an arduino and an SD card and playback the GPS output of a car going in a loop up and down the the PCH or something similar into the data radio. Then take that whole thing and put it on another car. Hilarity ensues...
Sheldon
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Re: better idea
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GPS satellites are in a much lower orbit!
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They did right: always go as public as possible.
As think I quoted here before, from Rex Stout: "You cannot answer a policeman by yourself. It takes a whole nation to answer a policeman."
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Legalities
Not really. All it does is show what happens when you find it and publicize the fact that you found it. If you find it and do what those guys planned on doing, and put it on another car or something, the question is still open-- what will they try and do to you? Obstruction? Destruction of government property?
Are you under some legal obligation to leave strange shit alone that you find on your car?
I'm a cop myself and I have no idea what the actual answers to these questions are.
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Re: Legalities
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Re: Legalities
Wow, I don't think I've EVER heard a cop admit before that they don't know it all.
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Re: Re: Legalities
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Re: Legalities
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We are taged.
Cell phones. You carry 'em and they are always broadcasting.
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Re: We are taged.
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Re: We are taged.
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Go to https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0
Watch where you've been, every single day.
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What are you doing that you believe that the police (FBI, DEA, NEA, PETA or anyone else) would want to follow you or tap your phone or read your emails? Most of mine even I don't want to listen to or read. As for the following, I guess I must be missing out because where I go wouldn't interest anyone. What is your life about?
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That's the nice thing about being a cop, they have to PROVE that you did something wrong before they can punish you for it (which is probably why the chief went to the extremes that he did). Whereas in the regular world it's pretty much up to whatever your boss happens to think (they don't have to "prove" anything).
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snaek up to a cab and attach
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Re: snaek up to a cab and attach
And put an annoyatron (Thinkgeek has them) next to it that's activated by a string when they pull it off
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send hte fbi a power use bill
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its not illegal if
e.g.
section 2: Landlord reserves the right to poke a hole in the toilet stall, insert a camera lens and masturbate furiously in the neighbouring flat whilst you strain to release an enormous poo.........
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OMG, I found one too!
Well, there is MY week on the FBI’s GPS tracking data. More power to them…
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wow
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What about Obama
My question is, why doesn't the FBI track and harass the powerful thieves in government first, and then go after the miscreants in the public arena?
Crap. I can answer my own question: the FBI reports to Holder - the second biggest lawbreaker in the central government.
Sorry, America, you will never see justice or freedom under communist dictatorships like ours.
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Re: What about Obama
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Re: Re: What about Obama
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Re: What about Obama
What? You guys only had this for a short period from 2008-2010 then the FUD Tea Party Obama is a Muslim-Terrorist-Nigger-not-born-in-the-US thing was in full swing and it tossed out the Democratic majority in 2010 by-elections.
While Obama isn't as awesome as previously advertised, that gridlock congress you got going on where they will say no to anything good (certainly not privacy policy, but other things)proposed by Obama/Democrats was to be blocked. It's a proven policy of the Republican Congress ffs! Boehner agreed with Obama for barely 24 hours for immigration reform, and his party took a shit on him and he had to go against his own thoughts to please the bunch of inbred doofuses in there.
Democrats control the Senate and from what I hear the tea partiers are into, they better stay in control of it.
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A random largish magnet appeared on my car
Any chance there could be a chip in the magnet? It was just on the side of my front hood but what a really non obvious way. At first I saw
it and thought it was funny so I kept it there...what are y'all thoughts?
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A random largish magnet appeared on my car
Any chance there could be a chip in the magnet? It was just on the side of my front hood but what a really non obvious way. At first I saw
it and thought it was funny so I kept it there...what are y'all thoughts?
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Re: A random largish magnet appeared on my car
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tarcjer
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good bye bye
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East Germany
They yearned to be free, I guess the FBI is now being a bit nostalgic and bringing East Germany to us.
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omg
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Michael Hastings
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Re: Michael Hastings
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FBI connected to planting bombs and other criminal operations too....
THE US Governement is just an ORGANIZED CRIME SYNDICATE NOW!!!!
..... WITH LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT RUNNING PROTECTION FOR THESE HOMELAND SECURITY CRIMINAL AGENTS.
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Re: FBI connected to planting bombs and other criminal operations too....
Personally speaking? I'd figure out which senator (or other government figure) is dead set against this sort of thing and go put it on their car. After a few days pass, I'd send this senator an anonymous warning on FBI stationary (easily faked) stating they are currently being watched without a warrant to do so. And it would be true, too, if the FBI didn't realize they were now watching someone other than their intended target.
Glad this story got resurrected. Never read it until today. :)
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It would lead them to an actual criminal! ;)
I don't think they would be nearly as mad after you helped do their job for them... better than they are doing it.
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The New Holocaust
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GPS tracking
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Re:
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fbi device found in my car
Looked it up with serial number. It is a FBI tracking device! I'm completely dumbfounded. I don't know how it got there but it was not there days ago. Also my car won't start, and stranage things have happened that if I tolled anybody they would think I'm crazy.things like this morning I woke up and found my car door key on the floor inside next to my front door. Went to get my keychain and it was not there were I lefst it. It was on the floor next to my bed. Other shit has happened that is not a cowinsident.
But I have proof now. Now I'm not sure what to do? But I feel very violated.
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