Colgate Patents Traditional Indian Tooth-cleaning Powder Despite It Being Used For Thousands Of Years

from the locking-up-knowledge dept

Tue, Nov 2nd 2010 11:18am — Mike Masnick

Over the years, we've seen a number of stories of big companies going into various countries, finding "traditional" and "herbal" remedies, and then figuring out ways to patent them. The latest such example, sent in by sinsi, involves Colgate "patenting" (in the US) a tooth-cleaning powder based on a recipe that has been used in India for "thousands" of years according to officials there. The patent itself (7,736,629) is for a "red herbal dentrifice" and, if you read the claims, it seems clear that they're just patenting a "recipe" of sorts, which alone seems ridiculous enough. But when you add in the fact that it's been used so widely in traditional Indian society, it gets even sillier. The whole thing appears to be yet another example of companies trying to use patent laws to lock up widely known knowledge... with the Patent Office assisting.

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Filed Under: india, patents, toothpaste, traditional remedies
Companies: colgate

40 Comments

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RD, 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:22am

The Ultimate
'based on a recipe that has been used in India for "thousands" of years according to officials there'

Uh....The Ultimate in Prior Art anyone? hello??
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martyburns (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:35am

Where is Ron?
Why does ol' Ronald J Riley never pipe up when crap like this is mentioned?
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TtfnJohn (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:35am

Re: The Ultimate
Well, you know it's all the fault of those half billion Indians who never bothered to register it first with the USPTO.

They did have "thousands" of years to do it, you know!
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:36am

Ah, must have been approved because of that patent approval process "speed up" they talked about a few weeks/months ago. Good thing it did not affect the quality of the "patenting": The Patent Office is failing faster than ever.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:36am

Re: Where is Ron?
Now that you named him, he will. :-(
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Dark Helmet (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:41am

Re: Where is Ron?
He's busily crafting his next great addition to society: The Eternal Signature....
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:43am

Re: Re: Where is Ron?
Actually, I would like to know how someone could defend the patent system in light of failures like this one (and others, like patent trolls). It's unacceptable. The system needs deep reforms (my opinion: get rid of it). Anyone that pretends that everything is fine and that this is just an "exception" is either completely retarded of lives off the systems itself. Or has some incredibly awesome justification that I would definitely like to hear (not likely tough).
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The Mighty Buzzard (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 11:47am

Re:
Look on the bright side, they've gotten way more efficient at sucking ass.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:00pm

Simple solution
Eliminate patents.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: Where is Ron?
Does that mean it lasts forever, or that it goes on so long it would take forever to read?

I think Ron's already achieved the latter.
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Anonymoose (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:08pm

Kindof like trademarking the �...
This might be a good time for TechDirt to get a patent for "A Method by which Companies or Individuals who Submit Ideas to a Government Agency Assigned to the Task Are Given Sole Rights to the Idea Submitted for Some Period of Time"

:)
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mastmaker, 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:14pm

Here's the irony: For decades, Colgate ran ads in Indian media crowing how damaging that 'red coarse powder' for you teeth and how much better the 'nice fine white colgate powder' is.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:18pm

If this patent is indeed bogus, then it seems to me it should be a relatively simple matter for anyone here to dissect Claim 1, with all of its limitations, and then point to instances where all the elements required by Claim 1 are contained in any product that has been used...as is asserted...for many centuries.
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Jeltz, 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:21pm

Re: Re: The Ultimate
Apathetic bloody planet. I've no sympathy at all.
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Free Capitalist (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:22pm

Re: Kindof like trademarking the �...
Very good idea (and username/profile pic), but that would probably just result in Homeland Security reviewing all patents submitted by "activist" individuals and corporations. By "activist" I mean everyone without a club card or a market cap less than $20B.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:27pm

Re:
Uh...This site has had several articles noting that:

A) Getting a patent revoked takes years.

B) Patents are used as legal bludgeons until someone with enough cash to fight lawsuits in court shows up.

C) Getting patents revoked during a lawsuit is a crap-shoot, but is unfortunately the most reliable means of doing so.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 12:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Where is Ron?
Thanks to Hawkings revelations concerning the Theory of Relativity, we now know that both are true!

From the standpoint of the one writing the Eternal Signature (which can only occur during a "Stupidity Singularity"), the signature appears to go on forever (technically, it expands in every direction at once).

From the standpoint of one reading the Eternal Signature, assuming one is not standing within a "Stupidity Singularity", or a black hole of dumbness, the signature appears always to have an ending, but one never seems to be able to reach it (this is due to the simple Helmetian Equation: RS = Sig * D^2, or Reading Speed equals Signature Size times Despair squared). An interesting side effect is that, should one reach a level of despair so deep that RS, Reading Speed, stops completely, Despair levels return to zero and, here's the most amazing part, the Signature Size is reduced completely to ZERO!
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 1:10pm

Really?
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 1:11pm

Re: Really?
This stuff has been around for thousands of years?

"11. The composition of claim 1, further comprising one or more nonbotanical ingredients independently selected from fluoride ion sources, stannous ion sources, zinc ion sources, antibacterial agents, anti bacterial enhancing agents, antioxidants, sialagogues, breath freshening agents, antiplaque agents, anticalculus agents, anti-inflammatory agents, desensitizing agents, whitening agents, analgesics and nutrients.

12. The composition of claim 11, comprising a fluoride ion source selected from the group consisting of potassium, sodium and ammonium fluorides and monofluorophosphates, calcium fluoride, barium fluoride, zinc fluoride, stannous fluoride, cuprous fluoride, indium fluoride and combinations thereof.

13. The composition of claim 11, comprising an antibacterial agent selected from the group consisting of triclosan, parabens, cetylpyridinium salts and combinations thereof.

14. The composition of claim 11, comprising an antibacterial enhancing agent selected from the group consisting of polycarboxylate polymers, PVME/MA copolymers, PVPA, silicone polymers and copolymers, chitosan and combinations thereof."
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 1:13pm

Some dumbasses tried to do the same thing with basmati rice. They got the royal smackdown by the entire Indian government. I am sure their government will smack the bitch that is USPTO around a bit to get this revoked.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 1:25pm

Re: Re: Really?
You have read from what are known as "dependent" claims, i.e., claims that include all of the limitation from an "independent" claim and add additional subject matter.

The sole independent claim in this patent is:

1. A tooth powder composition comprising:

(a) calcium carbonate having properties of particle size and angularity effective to provide mild abrasivity to dental enamel, wherein the particle size is selected from the group consisting of about 0.5 to about 30 μm and about 1 to about 15 μm;

(b) an effective amount of a red iron oxide of low abrasivity which imparts a red color to the composition; and

(c) a herbal component comprising at least one botanical agent or extract thereof,

wherein the calcium carbonate and red iron oxide are present in a weight ratio selected from the group consisting of about 5:1 to about 100:1 and about 10:1 to about 50:1.

If the above "tooth powder" has been around for as long as stated in the article, then it should be a relatively easy matter for someone to come forth and identify such a tooth powder.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 1:47pm

Re:
Just what I was thinking of. The "Texmati" patent (as it was called, IIRC) got killed, and this one may be too. Even if it survives, it would be impossible to enforce if traditional herbal recipes are similar enough to be "prior art".

However, reading the patent, it seems to be something else. I am not a chemical engineer, but it seems the crux is using red iron oxide (which is apparently less abrasive than other candidate materials) to color normal toothpaste to look like herbal toothpaste, making it more attractive to Indian customers. I don't know what traditional herbal dentifrices included to get that red color, but I doubt they did it just for the color. On the other hand, red iron oxide is essentially rust, not any exotic chemical, so it's quite possible it was a traditional ingredient.

BTW, you can try to make it sound frivolous by calling it a "recipe", but that's exactly what all chemical, material or drug-related patents essentially are.
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lostalaska (profile), 2 Nov 2010 @ 1:49pm

Re:
I'm pretty sure the patent office's "quality" really hasn't changed any in years. With that said, it has pretty much always sucked. Now there sucktatude is just faster.
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vastrightwing, 2 Nov 2010 @ 2:22pm

Circular reference
I'm going to patent a way to always beat competition by preventing others from being able to use existing methods, ideas and technology. My idea is centered on using the U.S. government and its offices to give someone a unique number which explains that by obtaining this special number, no one else can use this particular idea in any way shape of form, transmitted by any means electronic, mechanical, telepathically or any means not yet discovered. Anyone attempting to use the idea described by the article associated with this special number will be sued by the owner of this special number for as much money, gold or currency the entity using this idea has.
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pr, 2 Nov 2010 @ 2:48pm

biopiracy
This kind of patenting of local knowledge seems to be happening quite often.
http://www1.american.edu/ted/turmeric.htm
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 3:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Really?
"If the above "tooth powder" has been around for as long as stated in the article, then it should be a relatively easy matter for someone to come forth and identify such a tooth powder.'

The fact that it isn't sold in your everyday U.S. grocery store doesn't mean that it hasn't existed before. Apparently many Indians have been using it and Colgate stole the idea and patented it. Nothing really new, pharmaceutical corporations steal chemicals from herbs that are used for medical purposes and patent them.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 3:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Really?
I like this one.

"India is in the process of creating 34 million webpages to document its ancient medicinal techniques to stop them from being claimed by foreign profiteers."

It's about time. FINALLY!!! and I completely agree with this move. This nonsense of U.S. pharmaceutical corporations patenting ingredients and chemicals isolated from medicinal plants used for thousands of years by indigenous people has been going on for far too long. The indigenous people are the ones who figured out that the plant has medicinal properties, not the pharmaceutical corporations, and the pharmaceutical corporations simply piggy back off of the work of others.

Ideally, patents should be abolished or at least substantially diminished. The pharmaceutical industry is arguably one of the least innovative in existence (it used to be more innovative back before patents got such a stronghold over it) and patents are partly responsible.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 4:06pm

Re: Re:
Exactly and therein lives the silliness of the patent system for chemistry.

Want to know what the ingredient is to that fancy whitening activated by sun irradiation(ultraviole light) is?

Bleach

How royalty whitned their teeth in the past?

Using baking soda and strawberries.

Also baking soda was one of the ingredients for homemade toothpaste.

I'm no chemist, but the more I learn about how things were done in the past the more silly I think those IP system is, it is all about controlling the market for the benefit of a few people who wouldn't think twice to leave the rest hanging out in the cold.

That got to be a better way to do things.
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hmm, 2 Nov 2010 @ 4:06pm

i wonder
what happens if someone patents "a method by which ideas/concepts [yes, I know but bear with me] can be owned as a monopoly by one person, creating revenue via lawsuits and 'licensing agreements'.

Now heres the rub....The patent would be on patents, therefore the patent office would be an 'interested party' meaning the patent office couldn't object to the patent as it would be promoting its own interests above those of the applicant.....would they have to:

a) just approve the patent and pay a fee everytime someone applies for a patent
b) refuse the patent and possibly face the most bizarre lawsuit ever
c) collapse in the corner crying like a small child with its fingers in its ears, hoping it will all go away!
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 4:32pm

Homemade recepies for toothpaste.

http://www.pioneerthinking.com/teeth1.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en& q=toothpaste+home+recipes

The downside is that there is not fluorine in it and that is the only thing that commercial toothpaste have that homemade recepies don't have.

To whiten teeth just use hydrogen peroxide with baking soda(to make a paste) and brush your teeth with it.

That is how people take control again of their destiny, learning to do the things other do for ya and not falling prey to ridiculous demands, but that also is why IP laws exist to stop you from being able to work for yourself, improve yourself and be capable of saying no.
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abc gum, 2 Nov 2010 @ 4:49pm

I thought you were not allowed a patent upon a recipe.
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vastrightwing, 2 Nov 2010 @ 5:19pm

Re: i wonder
Sir, you are infringing on one or more of my patents here. I described this exact same thing in my idea, second (only after another poster on this forum), so not only are you attempting to patent an idea I came up with, but also a very similar idea I read about before I came up with it. The prior poster will not only sue me, I will sue you. Now if we can get others to come with another similar idea, we can all sue the next person. As more and more people come up with the same idea, we'll all go after the infringers creating a large pyramid like structure so we'll all get rich.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 6:32pm

Re: Re:
except, even if the judge declares the patent obvious and refuses to prosecute it, the patent is *not* "revoked" in fact most will turn around and take the same patent that was just declared obvious and start making no fee, or reverse fee deals (where patent troll pays the leaseholder rather than the other way around, in order to make it appear legit). Only the USPTO or an act of congress can revoke a patent.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 7:59pm

Re:
Even if true, the problem is that thinking is beyond the scope of government.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2010 @ 8:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Really?
So they have been measuring in microns for thousands of years?
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bikey, 3 Nov 2010 @ 3:50am

Re: The Ultimate
Prior art in merca doesn't include use abroad. Handy, what?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2010 @ 8:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Really?
LOL, if I file a patent on a formula for an MRP, and just translated mg. to oz. would that make it an invention?
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staff, 3 Nov 2010 @ 9:18am

chemistry
"they're just patenting a "recipe" of sorts"

Have you ever heard of...chemistry? Do you ever actually read these patents? Can you understand what you're reading? Ughhh!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2010 @ 10:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Really?
My point is not that this is a good patent. My point is that the headline is BS, there are differences that are not 'thousands of years' old. Most td readers seem to take the headline at face value. This kind of exaggeration brings td down to the same level as whatever td is commenting about. I have less respect for td when I see this kind of crap.
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wvhillbilly, 3 Nov 2010 @ 1:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Where is Ron?
You know they'll never get rid of patents. Lawyers make too much money off of them, suing people. Or, defending them.
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