Mainstream Press Seems To Think Fighting For Civil Liberties Is Childish
from the oh-grow-up dept
We've already pointed out how many mainstream newspapers and magazines have been mocking the concerns of people who are upset by the TSA's new search procedures. And, of course, the latest is that the press has decided this story is over because not enough people (in their estimation) opted out of the naked scans last week. NYU professor Jay Rosen notes a related, but disturbing, trend in the mainstream press coverage, with multiple publications suggesting that it was somehow childish to suggest these machines invade privacy with little actual security benefit. The common theme in all of these reports? "Grow up."I find this incredibly disturbing. No, perhaps, being scanned or felt up in this manner isn't a huge deal to some people, but is it really so crazy that some people are actually concerned about their civil rights? That some people are actually concerned about the efficacy of these scanners? That some people are actually concerned about where this leads to next? That doesn't strike me as being childish or immature. It strikes me as exactly the opposite: it's about adults recognizing that rights are being eroded and that it's happening with little evidence that the reasons given make much sense. Simply giving in and submitting to authority because of some bogeyman claims certainly seems a lot more childish than asking "why"?
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Filed Under: civil liberties, grow up, maturity, press, rights
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The problem doesn't begin with the press...
As long as they can see their favorite show and take a week vacation every year and drive a new car they could careless.
I have worked to get my wife whom I love to see the crap that is going on and she is now more aware. She is a liberal and voted for Obama, but even she was up-in-arms after hearing about the crazy level they are going to in the airports. She said "Isn't that unlawful search and seizure? They are treating us as guilty first!"
The stupid Homeland Security Act was passed by Bush during a time of great anger and fear, but I had hoped that Obama quietly, in the background would soften the implementation of it. He only made it worse.
I am sad because we are going to become a police state and no one with notice.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
In fairness to the American Sheeple, many of these things are under reported and are rather subtle on the face of it.
I mean, how many people thought that the Happy Meal debacle in S.F. sounded like a good idea at first?
Some times I feel like a crazy voice in the wind. People just don't seem to understand the importance of what's happening to them, one degree at a time.
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A motion
A. It came from loonies. The primary use of "sheeple" comes from conspiracy theorist types, like Birthers, and 9/11 Truthers. I regard them as the sort of folks I don't think any of us want to be associated with, and only provides ammunition to those who oppose our opinion.
B. It is insulting. If we truly seek to share with peoplet the slow, but unrelenting erosion of our civil liberties for the sake of the illusion of security, it makes sense not to treat them like morons. Most of the people we wish to influence are, at the worst, people who haven't heard about what is going on, or need a different point of view to better understand the situation.
C. It's arrogant. Every time I hear or read the word, I have to stifle the urge to mark the source as a jerk out of hand. See point B.
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Re: A motion
I don't like the term either. It's dismissive and far too generalizing. Team Point B.
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Re: A motion
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Re: A motion
I use the term to describe the "not wanting to be enlightened people with blinders on that think everything is hunky dory" not the "people who haven't heard about what is going on, or need a different point of view to better understand the situation.
What term should I use?
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Re: Re: A motion
I think it sums it up well. It may not be seen a very complementary, but it is to the point without seeming so smug.
*Interestingly, sometimes I see apathy as a positive thing, some things just aren't worth getting upset about. Then again I see what's going on now as worthy of everyone's concern. However,like I'm thinking you're saying, some folks just don't care, and nothing is going to make them care.
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Re: Re: Re: A motion
I feel people do not like to fit descriptions of people into one word, mainly because we are taught from birth those type of words are very bad, but sometimes it just works so well.
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Re: A motion (a movement? of the bowel variety?)
What you think about what any of "us" want to be associated with has nothing to do with "us", necessarily...wouldn't you agree?
Similarly to your idea of "our opinion"...which opinion is that I wonder.... could it be "your opinion" perhaps?
I think you should rely more on your apathy and not get excited about one word, as it makes you come off as insulting and arrogant. Not that it's necessarily bad to be insulting or arrogant... hell, I do it all the time...
It's just douchey to criticize something and then in the same breath, do it.
Just sayin'
CBMHB
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Re: A motion
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Re: A motion
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Re: Re: A motion
I can just hear you chanting 'sticks and stones will break my bones..'. I can't possibly imagine any reason why we shouldn't let people go around insulting others without challenge. I guess that's the best way to fight vocal racism, homophobia and sexism, by ignoring them.
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Re: Re: Re: A motion
Simplistic thinking leads to poor decisions.
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Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
If you read the hundreds of public comments after these opinion articles, you will see that the Comments and their associated Like/Dislike responses run very heavily in favor of preserving our civil liberties. The authors of these articles are severely criticized.
The editors of the LA Times didn't have the courage to sign their name(s) to their article. Perhaps this was wise after seeing how public opinion treated Ruth Marcus at the Washington Post when she suggested that concern about the TSA was "immature".
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Re: Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
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Re: Re: Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
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Re: Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
To be fair, that's standard practice.
Doesn't excuse their douchebag stance, but it's not like they've invented something new to hide behind.
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Re: The problem doesn't begin with the press...
Now, the MSM is the one attacking citizens if they complain about a policy that clearly unconstitutional.
It is amazing that so many Americans think that Fox News is the only biased new source.
Wow! What a difference a Democrat administration makes.
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So you have a minority of people who jet-set around the world complaining about the process, and to the rest of Americans, they're coming off as whinny babies.
I'm not saying they are whinny babies. I think standing up for our rights is important. I'm just saying that most people don't see this as an issue because for them, it is not an issue.
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Re:
Actually, what you are trying to say is that most people do not understand that it is an issue. This whole thing does not exist in a vacuum and is part of the long slippery slope that effects everyone, but since people are too short sighted to understand, they THINK it's not an issue.
It's like saying that CO in your house is not an issue because you can't smell it.
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Re: Re:
No, it's simply not an issue for most people. They don't fly, they don't get scanned, they don't get grouped, so it's not an issue to them.
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Re: Re: Re:
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Deferring to authority
Some of us believe:
1. People's ranks do not necessarily represent their decision-making abilities.
2. People in authority do not necessarily share the same goals and interests as the rest of us.
3. Power corrupts.
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Re: Deferring to authority
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We are like frogs in a pot of water
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Re: We are like frogs in a pot of water
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Re: We are like frogs in a pot of water
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Re: We are like frogs in a pot of water
America will not turn to Communism over night, but one day will wake up and realize they are Communists.
This man... was a very smart man.
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Re: Re: We are like frogs in a pot of water
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The Clueless Press
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Re: The Clueless Press
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naive or obtuse? neither reflects well on you
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Re: naive or obtuse? neither reflects well on you
(You know which party I'm talking about. The one that doesn't care about people, the one that has a history of offending their rights.)
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Re: Re: naive or obtuse? neither reflects well on you
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Re: Re: naive or obtuse? neither reflects well on you
I find it funny that George Washington said never have Political parties. He warned against it, and what was the first thing that happened after he died... yup Political parties.
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I couldnt agree more!
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Re: I couldnt agree more!
Propaganda spreading through the media, intentional lack of coverage of important issues by the media, inordinately expensive election campaigns that overshadow real choice, disillusionment and apathy because people's political representatives always ignore their concerns, the economy going down the drain... these are things that turn people into "I don't care" sheep.
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Not physical goods
We keep hearing the analogy of seizing drugs or counterfeit items. Those items can be moved or physically destroyed, so they have to be seized by the government to preserve the evidence. If after the seizure tests show that the items were seized improperly then the items can be returned. The company may have had some lost opportunities while the items were held, but if proven innocent the items are returned and the business continues in most cases.
The domains that were seized were not physical goods. They were domain names. They could not be destroyed or moved or hidden. The evidence of crimes would have been on servers and could have been gathered while the domains were working. In fact, that is exactly how the evidence was gathered in the RIAA file sharing cases as well as the infamous Hurt Locker lawsuits. If a case was to be made, it could have been made just as well if the domains were operational. Shutting down the servers effectively put the owners out of business, and that business can never be fully returned to them by restoring the domain names.
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Re: Not physical goods
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...all I could think was, "Apparently, there's a golf game this afternoon with the channel owner and representative whatshisname.... ." How sad is that?
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That's because half the population is below average intelligence. You add in people who don't care about the inconvenience of security and you get "most" people.
Some of us see a very more dangerous issue at hand. That if you don't draw a line in the sand, TSA will keep taking more and more rights away for little to no benefit. TSA is playing a no-win game and I feel bad for them. But it's not my fault and I don't feel like touching my crotch is something they should be able to do for me to get to Boston.
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Re:
You vastly overestimate the value of intelligence. Intelligent people can consistently make bad decisions and dumb people can make consistently good decisions. It doesn't matter how fast or efficiently you can run if you're facing the wrong direction.
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You'll see...
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Re: You'll see...
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And it's also obvious that our overall security isn't being accounted for: at the very least, they're herding us, like sheep, into unprotected and opportunistic target areas: TSA screening lines.
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Re:
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Re: Re:
Terrorist!
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Who is the "mainstream" press these days?
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Re: Who is the "mainstream" press these days?
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We notice, we just have other issues
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Is it that new?
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The US Press abandoned its responsibility...
Murrow has been turning over in his grave ever since the press started giving government a free pass on eroding our civil rights.
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Complaining is fine, but how about a solution?
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Re: Complaining is fine, but how about a solution?
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Re: Re: Complaining is fine, but how about a solution?
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Re: Re: Re: Complaining is fine, but how about a solution?
Training their personnel would be a good start.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Complaining is fine, but how about a solution?
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Re: Complaining is fine, but how about a solution?
It's not clear that would cause TSA to ease the "security" at the airports, though. The 9/11-style hijacking was solved when all of the cockpit doors were locked and hardened. (It was really solved on 9/11 when passengers realized they could not allow terrorists to control flight 97.) Nevertheless, I still cannot take my swiss army knife onboard. Sad.
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The larger issue... Apathy
The Bush administration was party to overt criminal activity unlike any other administration. Coercing data from the telcos in violation of the 4th Amendment and treason in outing an active CIA director in the field. No one cares that Dick Cheney and Karl Rove were involved in treason but Scooter Libby takes the fall; and Congress has already retroactively granted amnesty for the telco debacle.
The worst part is that all of these things were reported in the news and still no one cared.
Now we have the TSA and ICE. It's all staring us in the face and still the masses do not care.
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TSA
If the George Wills and other TSA critics of this world have an alternative, why don't they share it?
If the current security measures are relaxed or lifted, and there is a highjacking or other "incident" on an airplane, will the critics be the first to step up and defend the TSA, or the first in line with a noose?
Again, give me an alternative that also defers "terrorists," and I'll consider supporting it. Until then, criticisms seem misplaced.
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Re: TSA
as has been noted in the past, there is no such thing as perfect security. even with intrusive methods like this, there will still be attacks, and some of them will eventually be successful. the correct response is not to try and implement perfect security (an impossibility), but rather to refuse to be terrorized in the first place.
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Re: Re: TSA
When the US has trained personnel ready to implement an "Israeli-style" security protocol, I'll support the implementation. Until then, what do you suggest?
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Re: Re: Re: TSA
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It is childish to state something does not work when it does, just because you dont like that thing.
Its often funny to see how you put a spin on things, this one is a classic.
I think you either have read it wrong or you dont understand the full statement made. Or you do understand the full statement made and this is your spin on it..
Mainstream Press Seems To Think Fighting For Civil Liberties Is Childish
You see how you got your headline from selectively quoting, or misquoting from that statement.
No mainstream media is not saying any such thing as you indicate.
If anything they are saying its childish to state that
1. they invade privacy (it is true they do)
But that is not what the issue is about, as you know mike..
That is childish about that statement is the part about "invade privacy with little actual security benefit."
Fact is, it is childish to claim something does not work if you have no proof it does not work, and clearly it does work.
It is childish to say that something does not work, when it does, when you are only saying it because you dont like it, or it does not work in a way you would like it to work.
Most people do not take social and personal safety as childish.
and most people like it or not, know that the airlines have a duty of care for their customers, and they have every right to demand conditions to be met before they will do business with you.. No one is forcing them to accept you as a customer.
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Re: It is childish to state something does not work when it does, just because you dont like that thing.
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Re: It is childish to state something does not work when it does, just because you dont like that thing.
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Re: It is childish to state something does not work when it does, just because you dont like that thing.
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What's really fuckign scary is that all it will take is the FBI setting something in motion they can't stop, and all hell will break loose. Watergate will look like a tap turning on.
Security? No-one is safe under the auspices of government.
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We've turned into a nation of sheeple!
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Repeat
Constitution + Original Intent = Liberty
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