Police Chief Tells Parents To Hack Kids' Facebook Accounts
from the trust-is-so-last-century dept
Chrys Matyszcyk points us to a report about how a police chief in New Jersey is running seminars for parents on how to hack their kids' Facebook accounts and install spyware and keyloggers to spy on everything they do. There's so much wrong with the claims by Mahwah Police Chief James Batelli, it's difficult to know where to start."Trust sounds good. It's a good cliche," says Batelli. "[But] to stick your head in the sand and think that, in 9th, 10th, 8th grade, your child is not going to be exposed to alcohol, is not going to be exposed to drugs is kind of a naïve way to go about it."First of all, what's "cliche" about trust? Does he even know what the word means? But, really, the following sentence suggests he doesn't understand what trust means. It doesn't mean kids won't be exposed to such things, but that you trust them to know how to deal with it when they are. And the best way to do that is not to set up a relationship built on distrust, spying and lies, but to treat them with a modicum of respect, admitting that they'll almost certainly come across these kinds of situations, and helping them understand what it means, and how to deal with it on their own.
"If you sugar-coat it, parents just don't get it. Read the paper any day of the week and you'll see an abduction [or] a sexual assault that's the result of an Internet interaction or a Facebook comment."Really? Prove it. I read an awful lot of news about things happening on social networks, and I can't recall any such story, let alone "any day of the week." That doesn't mean it hasn't happened -- I'm sure there are some cases here or there, but the fear mongering about kids being abducted over Facebook are blown way out of proportion. And, again, this is something that can be dealt with by education, teaching kids to be aware of what they're doing online and teaching them about self-respect -- which is a bit more difficult to do when their parents are spying on them.
Amusingly, the article also quotes a parent, Carolyn Blake, who secretly installed a keylogger and spies on her kids. Later in the article, she mentions that she thinks her teenager figured out there's a keylogger there. Well, if he hasn't yet, I would imagine that having her tell the story, with her real name, in a major media publication probably is going to get back to him.
The real issue here is that so many people seem to think that there are two and only two options when it comes to parenting in such situations: let kids be free to wander into dangerous predator-filled waters totally unprepared, or to spy on them. Of course, that's not true. There are a range of ways to deal with these issues, and it all starts with actually educating kids about what sorts of things and challenges they're likely to come across as they grow up (both online and offline) and preparing them for when they inevitably face those scenarios. The kids won't always respond as the parent wants (what kids do?), but it's a part of growing up. Spying on their every move doesn't prepare them for anything.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: children, hacking, social networks, trust
Companies: facebook
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Here's yours! :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
My dad was suspicious of me and my brothers too (long before the internet). But we have a great relationship because he cared. So don't let it ruin what might otherwise be a good relationship.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
I am being responsible for my things, setting the example.
If giving leeway may mean a $1.92 million lawsuit, you aren't getting any leeway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
"NO! Are you kidding?" was my answer, and nothing to do with any copyrighty kind of issues either (I was oblivious at the time to those).
It was the inevitable virii - that she was ALREADY regularly infecting the machine with via IM spam - that made me put the boot down. I was the only one in the house that could 'fix' that stuff and I wasn't looking for another headache.
She's never been anything like tech savvy, despite efforts to teach her (she found it all very dull and eyerollish, had neither the aptitude nor the inclination).
Now she's off with a kid of her own. I wonder what she'll do when he's old enough to go surfing around when she's not looking. ;)
...guh, she'll probably call me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Your access to the internet is not restricted, HOWEVER... you will not go to porn sites. You will not go to places you know damned well you shouldn't be. You will not tell people where you live.
All communication is logged, and I will be checking the logs. First offense is loss of internet for a day. Second is a week. Third is a month.
You're smart kids, and I will be fair. I can tell the difference between you getting a pop-up for Hoppy's House of Porn and spending an hour checking the pictures out.
It only took twice of losing internet access to get the message.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Puppy Linux
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
and who really has time to evaluate keylogger files
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: and who really has time to evaluate keylogger files
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: and who really has time to evaluate keylogger files
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: and who really has time to evaluate keylogger files
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: and who really has time to evaluate keylogger files
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Parental Control
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Are you really surprised ?
I think the big thing to teach kids about these situations is that if they do decide to rebel and not take the parents advice, they are ultimately the ones that will have to live with the consequences.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sigh, I remember when I was a kid...
I laughed and said, "No, you won't."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Promoting crime?
US looking to use computer-hacking law against assange
Thanks To The Lori Drew Case, I Can Make Each Of You A Criminal
By the way, I'm certainly sick of seeing the once noble word 'hacking' used to essentially mean 'guess a password'.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Promoting crime?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Promoting crime?
Statistically its the most used "random" number between 1 and 10 by a large margin. Kinda like guessing^H^H^H^H^Hhacking someone's password is 'password'.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Promoting crime?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Parental Control
We had a friend of my son who was busted for looking at adult content by his parents. They called us up to "alert" us that it may have happened while he was at our house as well.
It had not. We keep the kids computers in a common area where people pass frequently. No filters. They have stumbled on sites occasionally and have what we as parents consider normal curiosity and then they move on. We show them trust and they respect it and honor it. I feel sorry for Patrick that his parents failed to show trust in him.
Related subject: As the neighborhood IT guy for many grandparents I don't have to worry about fixing limewire or facebook viruses, I get to deal with 3 or more parental control applications fighting with each other and shutting off the internet connection. They seem to think that if one is good then more is better.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Parental Control
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Parental Control
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Prove it? Does this count?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1221077/Katie-Piper-Acid-attack-victim-bravely-sh ows-face-disfigured-boyfriend-Daniel-Lynch.html
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
Having said that...she decided to link up with a stranger who sent her, a model, a random facebook message...and you think the problem was Facebook? She acted naive. The problem wasn't Facebook any more than it would have been the telephone if the jackass had found out how to get her number from the phone company. The problem was his extraordinary evil and her naivete....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Prove it? Does this count?
That story although tragic just illustrates what could happen, but not what happens every time.
There are bad people out there for sure we all know that but some people never encounter them and they start to think it is a unicorn or something, but what do we do when we encounter bad people or bad situations? What prepare us for those moments?
In the case of children should be the parents that would have had a long conversation with them explaining the dangers and how to deal with potentially dangerous situations, and that tragic story could help illustrate that to others but not to create an environment of over protection and distrust, that is not helpful and the reason for that is because overprotective or over controlling behavior breads distrust on others and they found themselves having to experiment to learn things the hard way.
With all that said, pointing out to her naivete is not correct and could be used to confirm the dangers naive kids face on the internet, when what truly matters is having the trust of your kids so they believe you when you say to them "this is dangerous, because of this, this and this and this could happen or this also could happen". Others had pointed out correctly that we can't control kids and that is true we can't control kids and we can't control others, what we can do is express a point and see them confirm that point and know how to react to things that happen good or bad.
Hope that makes sense.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
I'm pretty sure that Facebook didn't hold a gun to her head while this was going on. She could have just as easily met him at a bar, or a singles mixer, or through a co-worker, or any of the other myriad ways people meet for th first time.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
Sure this won't be a problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Doesn't prepare them for anything?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
"...says inappropriate photos on Facebook are threatening to ruin young people’s college and career resumes..."
And messages in general.
Which is why I had recently recommended a friend delete his sons' facebook account. After a home visit from a police officer...
Hunting in the future may not be possible when your child is posting "I wanna kill him" on facebook and police come and confiscate all your registered guns.
Yes, the son is monitored at home on the computer(physical presence, not keylogger or such), but apparently not at school or friends houses.
"You will not use Facebook if you are under 13."
http://www.facebook.com/terms.php
The son will not be allowed an account for a couple of years yet.
When a parent is held accountable for the child, I figure the parent has a right to know what is going on.
Sometimes the parent is protecting themselves, not being overprotective of the child. Blame the laws, not the parent.
When you are held responsible for your pets, you keep them on a tight leash. Or risk everything.
Think of the parents!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oh, nevermind. I forgot that parents aren't allowed to have any control over their children anymore.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 18th, 2011 @ 9:11am
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
But, really, the following sentence suggests he doesn't understand what trust means.
"running seminars for parents on how to hack their kids' Facebook accounts and install spyware and keyloggers to spy on everything they do. "
Scary that this is totally acceptable. Way to push your kids further away, and give them more excuses to hide everything they do.
"and it all starts with actually educating kids..."
Too much work. That actually requires parenting. Geez, hasn't someone invented software to do that for me yet?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
There is a time and a place...
That said, I agree with Mike that routinely monitoring your kids is not the way to build a trusting relationship, or indeed to teach them how to handle the Internet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: There is a time and a place...
I've tried everything except talking to him. Help me, TV show!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hogwash
Secondly, it's pointless. Children in many cases are going to know a lot more about computer then the parents are (in fact I know a teen who turned the his father's spyware against him and then presented his mother with proof his dad was having an affair).
Thirdly, if you haven't taught your kids good decision making skills, and how to think about the consequences of one's actions before they act, by the time they are in HS, you've mostly lost the fight already.
As with most other efforts by government these days, I don't see this doing much to really protect children. It simply gets people accustomed to being spied on (if kids get used to their parents doing it, they won't think anything of their government doing it when they get older. And if parents get used to telling their kids "if you're not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to hide" then they are likely to be more accepting when others to it to them).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Teach your children well...
Actually, this was the point I was going to bring up on this "advice" from this, uh, police officer.
By encouraging use of these keyloggers/spyware, there's a potential that the kids find out and start learning...their takeaway might be that they think it's okay to spy...
I prefer not to encourage the use of this type software.
I'll second the decision making skills and consequence part. I hope I can teach that first before they run across keyloggers/spyware.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Parenting is about teaching your kids to be capable and to be able to handle the world. If you have failed at this, your job, monitoring them and trying to control their world to make sure they are never tested is hardly likely to save them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Quite simply put...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Highlighted for "review"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Highlighted for "review"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Highlighted for "review"
Chrys is spelled Chris, I think.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I think this describes the situation niceley..
Is that it? Do I get the prize?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I think this describes the situation niceley..
Sounds like a clear abuse of power.
"Lawful Intercept (LI) to hack his family's facebook accounts,"
So LI is being used so this douche can check up on his family? See cops even treat their own families like criminals.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sadly
The fact that a government employee is advocating breach of ToS is not surprising either. The government regularly and consistantly ignores their own laws - but god forbid YOU break one.
As for the parents keylogging a computer. This IS preparing you for the real world. If you work in business, nothing you do on a work machine is private. Not only may they have a keylogger, but they will have copies of emails, logs of your web activities and more.
Sadly, this is all about control - and not about caring. Instead of doing the right thing, and teaching responsibility and educating in the consequences of our actions - and inactions, they want to rule with an iron fist and have all of us goose-stepping to their copyrighted tune.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
In any case, trust is important and you can't build trust by spying on your kids completely unwarranted. Then again, you can't be naive either and expect that your "little angel" would never do anything wrong. There's a happy medium without becoming as bad as big brother. Good parenting helps too!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Another reason why Internet anonymity is good. i
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Trust but verify
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
"Friend on Facebook"? Cripes, how many times have we heard horror stories start out with a line like that for the last 10 to 15 years? Let this be a lesson to folks that keep confusing the 'virtual world' with real life. If this was 20 years ago, the chances of these two meeting would have been quite less - because there would not have been this very false sense of 'computer security'.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish/home/Websites-Put-New-Face-on-Business-of-See king-American-Husbands-116113059.html - Friday, 18 February 2011
http://womansday.ninemsn.com.au/trueconfessions/trueconfessions/997508/my-online-girlfriend- turned-out-to-be-a-man - Wednesday, June 17, 2009
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700007664/Internet-rape-case-jolts-Wyoming-city.html - Saturday, Feb. 6, 2010
http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2010/11/12/when-do-simple-craigslist-pranks-turn-into-cases-of -harassment/ - November 12, 2010
Shall I even mention Stone Phillips at this point?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11131562/ns/dateline_nbc/ - February 1, 2006
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Prove it? Does this count?
The Friday is about people wanting to marry and finding relationships on websites where are the abduction [or] a sexual assault? Mail brides are now an internet only thing?
The Wednesday is about a odd friendship relationship, no abduction or sexual assault.
The other Friday about Craiglist is not about online interactions leading to harassment is about people using Craiglist to harass others whetter that happened online or offline it is targeting people they don't like.
So you got a Wednesday with the Stone Phillips that could count and a Saturday with the rape case.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Prove it? Does this count?
The boyfriend posed as the victim convincing a guy that the victims fantasy was to be raped and did everything without the victims knowledge, no amount of spying on her internet would have prevented that.
Seriously, if that is all you got to justify spying on other family members things are not looking good for that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
also, anything that teaches kids to circumvent malware at a young age is good imho, when we have our own protests, itll keep more of em safe from the "government"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Prove it? Does this count?
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/man-arrested-over-facebook-relationship-status/220
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Prove it? Does this count?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Its quite simple
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Its quite simple
My kids are not allowed to make their own decisions and fail and without that knowledge they will be less prepared to deal with relationships that depends on trust in the future.
Only my needs are important and should be respected and no one is allowed to contest that.
Parenting is not about friendship or learning is about getting it right in the first try with serious consequences if you don't, in the end WE believe we can control them and will ultimately fail to do that and they will hide things from us because the consequences are so severe if they don't.
Now teaching responsibility is something that takes time and patience to achieve and above all it takes an example, kids look at their parents and they assimilate those quirks their parents have.
When I see those things written I know why the U.S. government and authorities do the things they do it is because those things are hardwired on the culture of the land.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
common sense..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
P.S. to common sense..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The culture of control and punishment is what makes the basis of what is thought to people inside American society, the government just reflects that culture that is so ingrained in the American family today.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Trusting your kids
True example; when my "kids" were young (in conservative Texas), we treated them as equals (with the power of the veto, but only in extreme cases, which fortunately never came up). Our relatives were HORRIFIED! "Children need to be closely monitored and controlled, etc." They even tried to "teach" the kids "properly" while babysitting.
I finally told them "you want followers, raise followers, I want leaders, I am raising leaders".
Now our kids are all highly respected leaders (though there were some problems, for a decade, with the youngest, which SHE fixed!). Their kids are followers.
Nuff said.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
LOL
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Keyloggers Are Extremely Effective - Keep Children Safe
We never condone anyone using this type of software other than for their own security. Its a powerful piece of software, safe, reiliable, and most importantly of all, will help thousands of parents to keep an eye on their children, knowing they are safe when on social networking sites.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Micro keyloggr parental control
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Kids
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Child monitoring
The problem with children today is that they think that they have the "right" to do whatever they want and whenever they want. Children feel a tremendous sense of entitlement.
My teen is no different. She feels that since I own a computer and have Internet access, that she is entitled to the use of it in any way she wishes. She thinks it is okay to arrange to meet up with a guy for a roll in the hay and that I have no right to know about it, much less do anything about it.
As a parent, it is my responsibility to supervise my kids and what they are doing. I am not under any obligation to provide the tools to them and then blindly allow them to misuse those tools in a manner that could be damaging to themselves or others.
Do I trust my kids? Yes, but I trust with verification. Do I let my teen roam the streets at 3am because I trust her? No! Computers and technology are no different. The Internet is a virtual world of 3am street trouble that is actively trolling for victims. Kids are so gullible because they think that they know everything - From the very first day of kindergarten when they learn how to tie their shoes, they begin to regard themselves as all-knowing supreme beings.
Kids think that parents came into the world as adults and that we have no knowledge of what teenagers do. If you are a parent and you can't set up your own computer, it is your DUTY to learn before you bring one into the house, but you had better learn and get one. Just because you don't have one in the house does not mean that they will not use one somewhere else.
And as for key loggers, they are absolutely not useless with billions of bits of random data. I receive a daily email outlining the complete details of everything that computer has been used for, separated by user log in name and sorted in order - including all Internet activity, usernames and passwords. I also have a full compliment of screen shots that are saved every 10 seconds that automatically get saved onto my local server.
Do I obsessively go through all of that information? No. In fact, I rarely even look at any of it. When there is a problem, however, I do sort through it and am usually able to find a problem very quickly.
Nothing kills the mood for a thug boyfriend more than Dad showing up in the abandoned house across the way with a shotgun just as they were "working into the mood". Incidentally, I have since learned that said thug boyfriend has a child with another 15 year old girl that my teen is friends with on Facebook. Glad I choose to monitor things so that MY teen's future isn't compromised by "Knowing it all".
And yes, my teen regularly tries to bypass my monitoring tools and sneak around, but "Daddy ain't no dummy". I make it my business to know more about technology than my kids and their friends.
I monitor her iPod goings on as well, and no, I don't need the iPod in my hand to monitor it.
By the way, I also have all of my teen's friends facebook usernames, passwords and email information since they log on to their accounts from my computer when they are here. I make it a point to share that information with their parents and even help them to set their computers up to monitor their teens and friends.
It is my responsibility and my obligation. I am not infringing on anyone's privacy, because they are all fully aware that I am watching. Every move they make on my computer can be seen and they know it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
why
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Unblocked: The Blocked Side of Facebook
Promo Code: UTGYQQHB
[ link to this | view in chronology ]