Judge Says No Anonymity For Anyone Who Visited GeoHot's PS3 Hacking Website Or Watched YouTube Video
from the dangerous-ruling dept
In what seems like a very dangerous ruling, antithetical to basic anonymity rights, a magistrate judge has ruled that Sony can unmask anyone who visited GeoHot's website where he had posted the jailbreak data or who viewed the YouTube video that demonstrated the jailbreak for the PS3 that allowed PS3 owners to bring back a feature that Sony had killed off. This seems pretty extreme. Why is it okay to identify people just because they visited a website or watched a video? As the EFF noted, these subpoenas seem extremely broad, and it's disappointing that the judge signed off on them.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: anonymity, first amendment, jailbreak, privacy, ps3, visits
Companies: sony
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Re:
Let's make whistleblowers have to reveal their names, too, while we're at it!
You are an ass.
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Which law, exactly?
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Let me know when someone alleges that in a competent court. M'kay?
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"Sony has been sued for removing Linux support from the PS3. Norway’s Consumer Ombudsmen has recently found (Norwegian) that Sony’s removal of “Other OS” support from the PS3 violates Norway’s Marketing Act"
They broke the law in several countries. Just because you are ignorant of that doesn't make in not so.
Douche.
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Which law, exactly, removes the right of the consumer to do whatever the fuck they want with something they bought fair and square?
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Which law, exactly, removes the right of the consumer to do whatever the fuck they want with something they bought fair and square?
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Yeah - that's how they think.
I was at the SIGGRAPH panel discussion in 2006 which raised the issue of the Sony rootkit.
When a questioner mentioned Sony's GPL violation the Sony spokesman pooh-poohed it - saying "oh it was only a little be of code" hypocrisy much!
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Re:
Fear my bridge for it is tall and I live under it with my mother.
Fear my breath for I now live in my mothers basement after my job at the label has gone away.
I am eternal
I am ever present
I am troll
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Re:
well you might like to know that I am one of the people whom Sony in their infinite stupidity will find out viewed this video, as well as downloading all of the code et.al
In fact I dislike the action by SCEA so much I am submitting to the Federal Court of Australia an application for an injunction to stop Youtube, SCEA and others from accessing the information if it pertains to persons outside the continental USA.
And if you have just insinuated that I am a criminal, maybe I should also join you as a party to the other actions that are being initiated against SCEA due to all this.
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Says the anonymous coward.
Also when did it become against the law to simply view a video on Youtube??
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There I fixed it for the anonymous hypocrite.
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Incredible
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Only one thing to say
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Re: Only one thing to say
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Re: Only one thing to say
Join us!
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Re: Only one thing to say
Although Apple does not condone jailbreaking, it is possible on iDevices and look how much more sales this generates.
Sony, you made me cry. I will not longer give you my money.
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That doesn't concern you. You don't pay the magistrate's salary. Sony pays for the magistrate. So it's none of your business.
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Sony Boycott
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None.
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Re: Re: 4 boxes
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty
"There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: What chance for justice?
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Good corporate citizens deserve rights
Only good corporate citizens —like Sony— deserve their rights.
Judges don't need to stop to consider employee's rights. Employees are taken of by their corporations. And as for you unemployed criminals.... you'll get what's coming to you.
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scary
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Re: scary
You can be sued at any time, for anything, by anyone.
Unless you're a government official—in which case you have qualified immunity. Or if you're a judge, and have absolute immunity.
Or if you're really, really rich, and can hire goons to take out anyone who bothers you.
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Re: scary
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They had it coming.
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They had it coming.
They stripped a feature out of their product.
So the Hackers put it back.
Unfortunately, that opened Pandora's box. All of the stuff that you are now whining about would have happened if Sony just honored it's obligations and treated the customer fairly to begin with.
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Re: They had it coming.
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Re: Re: They had it coming.
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Re: Re: Re: They had it coming.
Sorry, but this is one of those areas where we should stand up and applaud Sony for having the balls to stand up to the punk idiots who would ruin things for everyone else by their own personal greed.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: They had it coming.
I don't think most people have a problem with Sony banning modded consoles from the PSN (I know I don't; it's their network, after all), but I draw the line at suing people for modding the physical property they own.
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Sony (and other AC's) need to realize that there are completely legitimate purposes for modifying the PS3 software. It is rather unfortunate that the conversation typically steers in the direction of "well people are pirating software." OK, can you show me those figures? Seems an awful lot of foot-stamping is being had w/o any notion of actual damages.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: They had it coming.
Because Sony said so. Because the politicians listen to Sony's lobbyists. Not to you. And because the politicians appoint the judges. So it's because Sony said so. And because Sony has the power to make its say-so stick.
Never mistake this fact: Political power flows from the barrel of a gun.
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That copyright law allows it to pull off things like this simply shows how much copyright is at odds with the speech, privacy and property rights of the public. #DMCASNAFU
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Re: Re: Re: scary
Now hackers can unban themselves and ban others
Not the fault of Geohot. He just unlocked Pandora.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: scary
LoL
I was watching Hack5 and they had this hack challenge one of the competitors was using Metasploit to hack the others and delete the files needed to complete the test LoL
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Re: Re: scary
Technical laziness by Sony is the root cause of the problem.
There are perfectly viable online games that run on open platforms.
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Re: Re: scary
As for the stat resets, that's all Infinity Ward's fault and, apparently, MW1 is vulnerable as well. For reasons unknown to anyone who has even the slightest grasp of security, IW decided to solely trust the server software to award experience for kills and match wins (servers with the exploit do nothing fancier than sending large, negative amounts of experience to the client). I don't think I need to explain why doing it like that was a terrible idea.
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Re: scary
How can the a hole at the top (you know who Im referring to) applaud the decision to unmask someone for watching a yutube video. Only in America can people root against their own interest and stand up for corporations over citizen rights.
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Anon will not be pleased
As they say... "It's all for the Lulz"
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Re: Anon will not be pleased
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Hotspots
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Re: Hotspots
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Ooh!
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Re: Ooh!
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Re: Ooh!
I've never visited the page or watched his particular video, but I've seen those codes in nearly every comment section of every article at several different sites where I've read about this case, and I'd wager I could find alternative places where the same information and instructional video are available with little effort.
With the fractal way of information dissemination on the web, I imagine the entire internet will need to be supoena'd.
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Re: Ooh!
Except it's probably too late for that now. I bet they were planning on using the logs as an intimidation tactic to stop the info from spreading -- so whatever they do now, there's no chance of containment and intimidation is pointless.
Will they really try to sue half the internet as a show of revenge? I'd like to see them try!
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Those who read the sacred but forever forbidden texts shall be excommunicated and banned for all eternity from SOE.com
The sooner we have more men of fortitude such as Magistrate Joseph Spero who will issue potent Writs of Inquisition... er... subpoenas, the sooner we will have the fuel we need to scorch and burn the likes of GeoHot at the ..... suit.
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See, America?
The American Way is now, "Bomb the shit out of somebody, build them back up, then wait for them to shit on us and let them wipe all our collective asses with our own constitution."
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It just boggles
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Re: It just boggles
Yes.
Boycotts don't work unless you have a lot of people. And face it, most of your neighbors don't know and don't care. Heck, most of them don't want to know.
Most of your neighbors understand that reading the wrong blogs, watching the wrong videos, thinking the wrong thoughts—all those things can get you into trouble.
Better to stay out of trouble.
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Re: Re: It just boggles
I have been boycotting Sony for 10 years now LoL
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Re: Re: Re: It just boggles
Your boycott has obviously been very effective. Super effective. Ultra effective.
In fact, your boycott has been even more effective than the boycott over Sony's rootkit.
Longer-lasting is more effective.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It just boggles
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Re: It just boggles
I live in a small city, which means a very large segment of society works for one of the two big employers here. I've seen a number of small businesses go under rather quickly when bad word of mouth spread about them. That is what happens when so many people have a common connection with each other. For example, one was a restaurant owner who had friends in high places. This allowed the owner to avoid paying taxes. It amazed me how fast his business went under when word about his activities began to spread (too bad too, I liked the food there). Another was the owner of a popular car repair franchise, whose mechanics were under suspicion of creating problems for car owners in order to ensure repeat business. So your idea isn't far fetched at all and can definitely succeed in locations where the conditions are just right.
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Nintendo 3DS took 24 hours to be hacked.
That is what you get when you tell people your system is unhackable.
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No right violated and whys it a big deal
So why's it a big deal at all getting a list of IP addresses. An IP Address has no rights, an IP Address is nothing important remember????????
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Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
IF it's illegal, make it illegal across the board; if not, don't. Just don't have this shitty system where jailbreaking your Wii or Xbox is fine, but the PS3 jailbreak isn't.
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Re: Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
It's little mikee's cake that he wants to look at and eat at the same time, not mine.
But like with most of little mikee's crap, his controdictions in stance are probably more to gain fools to click on banners and sell ads than to really try to make a difference.
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Re: Re: Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
Can I ask why you resort to name calling and what appears to be condescending speech when trying to make your points? It seems counter-productive.
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Re: Re: Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
Michial, of course I have never said that. What I have said is that it does not accurately identify who was sitting at a computer doing stuff. I have not said that revealing it does not identify someone. The question is whether or not that's really the person who did the activity. That is the problem as I have clearly explained.
It's little mikee's cake that he wants to look at and eat at the same time, not mine.
Um. No. Try again, and next time, try it without the baseless insults.
But like with most of little mikee's crap, his controdictions in stance are probably more to gain fools to click on banners and sell ads than to really try to make a difference
What "contradiction"? It's already been explained to you there is none. Will you admit you were wrong? Doubtful.
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Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
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Re: Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
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Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
All the more reason not to allow the invasion of privacy, if the information isn't useful anyway.
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Re: Re: No right violated and whys it a big deal
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Grow up, kid. Nothing new about it.
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Sony has Deep Pockets!
Disappointing or predictable? When "paid off" judges will "sign off"!
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had a boycott on Sony for long time. ever sense they installed viruses on music cds that killed everybody's dvd drive. its ok for them to hack my pc? but not allowed to watch a video or read something?
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We all should go there
I wonder how many subpoenas are too many?
Could the court issue 1 million?
What effect would the fact that a visitor doesn't even own a
Play Station have on the process?
Is it simply illegal to visit a website with illegal content, or does there have to be intent on the part of the visitor?
Just questions... Big Brother is coming back into to your lives!
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PS3 Hack
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My My...
When it comes to anything the Entertainment industry thinks is wrong, the government tends to agree since they get enough money in "election campaign contributions" and they need to pay back with votes and court decisions.
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Also means..
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sony already has my name and address
Free from SONY since July 2001.
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I would be very interested in knowing if you would have the same opinion if it were something you were involved in. It's people like you that make this world what it is. I guess you also agree with Yahoo when they gave the Chinese Government info that landed an activist in jail.
Senior citizens should keep their opinions to themselves if they are misinformed on the situation. When you agree that a private company should be able to find the identities of someone just for watching a video, and then probably try to get them to settle for a ridiculously high amount, then you obviously have your head in your ass, or work for the **AA.
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Why it's ok
Fwiw, I honestly can't recall whether I'm personally affected by this or not. I might have visited the website after the news of the suit first broke. I just can't remember.
Anyhow, this just goes to show that we're all idiots. Or we don't really care about letting third parties poke their noses into our reading habits. One of the two—or both.
If we wanted privacy more than speed and convenience, then we'd be browsing with Tor. That's all there is to it. 'Cause we sure can't count on the court system to watch out for the public interest. The courts have no regard for citizens. We've seen that over and over again.
Right now, people don't have the political power to get new magistrates appointed. The lobbyists run Capitol Hill and the judges come with (D) and (R) after their names. And both the (D)'s and the (R)'s are in hock to the banksters—pawns for the multi-nationals.
I'm guilty of not using Tor myself right now. Shame on me. I should know better. I do know better.
Bottom line: It's time to either browse with Tor—or to just shut up about any “right” to read in peace.
Ok?
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Sony subpoenas YouTube and Geohot...
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this is pointless
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Stay classy sony, i am sure there is a bright future shitting on your customers.
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So if..
I think they must have slipped a fat envelope to the judge.
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Re: So if..
However it all means a whole lotta nothing in scenarios like the one you suggested, and IPs are not indicative of intent anyway. It's a waste of time.
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Removal of Other OS = No More Sony Product Purchases
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Something that would be cooler, is if someone used the PS3's as a botnet to attack Sony, with a message that says We baught the PS3 from you we OWN them now, and will do as we wish with them.
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Modding Illegal?
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Modding Illegal?
To find kids being punished for exploring and being creative seems deplorable. Hasn't Sony made enough from the sale?
Seems Sony insists on its LONG HISTORICAL bad bay corporate ways. Though to be fair, they're not the only ones. However, many of todays corporates have followed their lead in strategies they devised and perfected.
Watching a video or visiting a site cannot be illegal, and you'd have to download the said instructions, then intent would have to be proved. The ruling only referred to those sites. So, no doubt when it goes global and they distribute it via internet forums his ruling will mean ZERO ...
In my books you can mod all you like, but should you try to sell it or profit from it, then then the law should apply. Any serious business person would reinvent and innovate a better product.
Most engineers have prospered from reverse engineering and many new innovations have occurred through this practice. In fact, so has Sony as a company, how ironic.
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I Really see this better phrased as...
Thinking thoughts about Murder is not illegal. Committing it is.
Now if Yoda (name used withouth license to describe the small green wizened Jedi (also used without license to describe a master of the Force (also also used without license to describe the power generated by mitochlor.... oh fluck it.))) was to mangle those sentances Sony may just have a point.
I was really tempted to see just how far I could nest those references but I was too lazy to lookup the spelling for the... um... mitocloridian-thingies.
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PS3 Product or Service
Sounds to me like their not selling a console product, but a license to a service. I think companies are misleading customers into believing they've bought a product. When legally they seem to view it as a license & service.
So, if I buy a car and mod it, or PC and upgrade it with generic parts and code, or use my old fridge and mod it out as a beer cooler, I'm in contravention of the law. Gee better come and get me then.
Seems to me the laws are terribly inept and out of date. Sony inc are trying to redefine the laws in their favor.
If they do this for Sony, then they should apply this stupid logic to all products. In which case I'd imagine the greedy corporates would receive a consumer backlash and laws applying to products would need be revised.
Consumers should vote with their pockets, you'd soon see their attitudes change. Sony by selling this product and reserving ALL RIGHTS to modify it after the fact and NOT DISCLOSING IN FULL their INTENT is a contravention of the law.
So in effect, the PS3 might as well be one BIG SOFTWARE DONGLE. Which is fine if they had of told customers that in the first place.
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Re: PS3 Product or Service
The better point would be to say that if your software dongle stops working.... gets to scratched....ever - they have to replace it at their cost as you still have a valid license to access their service :)
Either you *own* it or they do - personally either way works just a little consitency would be nice.
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PS3 Product or Service
If it were JUST a software dongle, then Sony should not venture to make it a hub for entertainment.
Is it a PC, as in computing and computer games?
Or is it a Console Game, come glorified dongle?
As soon as it does more than just play SONY copyrighted games,it gets ugly.
Let's not forget, Sony heavily subsidized PS3 with Blu-Ray to the tune of billions, simply to sink the better Toshiba HD-DVD disc product. Why? ... To corner the Entertainment Market. This strategy was a complete reversal of their Betamax debacle.
If Sony feels out of pocket and desperate, this is what you get for HIGH RISK destructive strategy. They succeeded in decimating Toshiba's HD-DVD, and in China ... China Blu will destroy Sony's dreams of Global domination.
For the record, I couldn't careless for PS3, never touched it. Come to think of it, I haven't bought any Sony products now for more than 10 years, with the unfortunate exception of having a Sony Ericsson phone.
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erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
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PS3 Dongle
So, hardware analogy doesn't wash and they are within their rights to ban a user from a network service. Though I don't agree any company has the right to modify a product after the fact without fully informing or a full disclosure. When Microsoft offers a security patch, it needs to disclose the details and I can refuse to apply it should I so wish to. If they force it and break features or functionality, they have a responsibility.
I think Sony's ruling elite have made a bad call on this. Given that they broke a feature that was a point of sale to LINUX users. Last I checked, the count for ALL versions of LINUX accounted for no more than 2% of the global user base.
How many of those were Sony PS3 users? NOT MANY!
Not only has this killed the second hand PS3 market dead. Because buyers don't know if they're banned consoles or not. Traders won't touch them with a 10ft barge pole now.
This has started to affect sales and is set to cost them far more than it was worth.
What was a storm in a tea cup, has now become a Tsunami of bad PR and REAL LOSS in SALES, not virtual. Revoking a Linux user feature was dumb, though I don't agree with what some users did on their network. Two wrongs don't make it right.
Personally,if I was in the legal hot seat over this. My question would be, "Where is the proof I agreed to this so called LICENSE agreement? Do they force you to register your PS3 serial & MAC ID, then force you to agree to those terms and conditions?" If not, I'd like to see you waste time & money in court over that one.
Where is Sony's return program for users affected by its decision to revoke this feature that was a point of sale.
I believe the law stipulates a refund is in order. So to if I refuse to accept some idiotic invasive attempt to erode consumer rights via an agreement that wasn't made clear enough prior to sale.
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"Sony can unmask anyone who visited GeoHot's website"
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Important Information
It has come to my attention that a certain Nigerian Prince would like to offer you a rather wealthy sum in exchange for some favors that we ask of you. All we need is for you to look over a few items of interest...
erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
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n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
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