Is It Time To Form A 'Rogue' Party Instead Of A 'Pirate' Party?

from the what's-rogue? dept

Tue, Apr 12th 2011 10:51am — Mike Masnick

We've discussed a few times how important language choices are in the debate over copyright -- something that entire books have been written about. For years, the key term was always around "piracy." It was all about stopping pirates and dealing with piracy. But, some have noticed a gradual shift in the language, away from piracy. In fact, much of the debate around COICA has focused on "rogue" sites rather than "pirate" sites. Copycense and Glyn Moody recently had an interesting Twitter discussion on the topic, as seen below: Part of the discussion centers around whether or not this allows for greater conflation of copyright infringement with other types of infringement, such as patents and trademark/counterfeiting. That certainly sounds reasonable to me, though, I also wonder if part of it is the realization that condemning people as "pirates" just isn't effective any more. Part of it is that people have realized how ridiculous it is to compare non-commercial, personal file sharing to "piracy," and part of it may be the overall embrace by some of the term (e.g., "The Pirate Party"). Perhaps, for all the attempts to use the negative word "piracy" as part of the failed education campaign aspect, the industry is realizing it's time to move on.

Of course "rogue sites" seems like an odd choice as well. Is it really accurate or appropriate? The definition of "rogue sites," seems to depend very much on who's talking. I guess that's part of the beauty of it. It allows folks in the entertainment industry, for example, to label any site they don't like, or which represents a challenge to them, business model-wise, as being "rogue." It's "rogue" as in that it doesn't fit with the way the industry wants to do business.

And, yet, historically, if we look at some of the most innovative businesses in the world, they started off as being "rogue," as in going in a different direction and going "off-the-farm" with some crazy ideas. For example, a little industry known as "the movie industry," started out in very much this manner, running out to Hollywood where it could grow without having to deal with Edison and his aggressive patent enforcement attempts. Perhaps "rogue" isn't such a bad thing.. and maybe we should be embracing rogue sites and services, in that they seem to be driving innovation forward in useful ways.

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Filed Under: coica, language, piracy, rogue sites

37 Comments

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weneedhelp (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 10:58am

interesting Twitter discussion on the topic, as seen below:
Indexing... never loads.

earlier today:
read resources.youknowbest.com - locked firefox, had to kill process.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 10:58am

For Example
I'm fairly certain "going rogue" in British idiom means "without underwear."

This could be fun.

Also, "Bent" mean "gay" in British idiom, which is why Futurama never got a fair shot at general broadcast. ;-P
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The eejit (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:05am

Re: For Example
Hmm...also "Going Commando" for without underwear.
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Kevin (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:06am

How about the "Angry Nerds" Party. What could be threatening about a bunch of angry nerds?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:06am

going rogue
I would imagine Sarah Palin has a trademark or some crap on her book title. The underware reference makes that title a lot funnier.
At the poltucal convention for the rogue party your "ticket" to get in is not wearing underwater FTW.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:07am

Re: going rogue
Flippin' autocorrect. Underware not underwater.
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The eejit (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:11am

Re: Re: going rogue
Underware? That soem new tech that allows you to game under your game?
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Anonymous Poster, 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:13am

Re:
Have you ever been around a group of angry nerds?

The body odor alone would be enough to get the RIAA to give in to their demands.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:14am

Re: Re: For Example
The Commando Party would be an excellent name.
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lavi d (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:23am

My Contribution
Rogue Pirates in Rouge Party, the RPRP.
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MrWilson, 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:35am

Maybe a Rogue Party could get confused votes from Tea Party Voters who think that it's a Maverick Party.

"Pirates? I thought I was voting for Sarah Palin! That woman is a true Amercun!"
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Jay (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:36am

Re: Re:
Angry Geeks. They're more sociable. :)
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Zangetsu (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:56am

Perhaps this name?
Why not a "Common Sense Party"? Their platform could be:
- a political party for the people, not the corporations
- a political party that would shift the cost of copyright enforcement from the government to the copyright holders
- a political party that understand that just because there is a patent on a drug does not mean that it should cost a lot
- a political party that understands that Patent reform is about patenting *new* things, not items found in nature (genes) or digital versions of physical items
- a political party that understands transparency in government means you need to share more information and not penalize whistle blowers for doing what you asked them to do
- a political party that understands the word "secular" and how it should be applied
- a political party that understands that the federal budget would be a lot closer to being balanced if the special interest projects were removed
- a political party that understands if the government is shut down then they shouldn't be paid either.
But, then again, I'm not sure the public is ready for such a radical choice.
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el_segfaulto (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Re: For Example
Sign me up!
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el_segfaulto (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 11:58am

Re:
"Pirates? I thought I was voting for Sarah Palin! That woman is a true Amercun!"

You forgot a letter there...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:00pm

Re:
Lawyers are already soliciting Rovio to see who gets paid for the inevitable Angry Nerds trademark infringement suit...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:02pm

Question:

Rogue, as in, sneaking, backstabbing RPG character or rogue, as in, has nuclear weapons and is willing to use them?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:08pm

Re: Perhaps this name?
I thought that was the Libertarian Party, Ron Paul style...
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Pixelation, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:21pm

Anything but rogue...
Please. McCain and Palin pretty much ruined the term for me. I was embarrassed for them with the whole "going rogue" thing. A geezer and a soccer mom do not = rogues. They just don't. Epic fail, try again.
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suchenwi, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:22pm

What's in a name?
Of course, the choice of a name is important - especially when running for office. And of course again, that choice is free.

But also consider that "Pirate Party" is by now a little more than a funny idea for a name. After the first, Piratpartiet, was founded in Sweden on Jan. 1 2006, sister parties have been created in over 40 countries, mostly in Europe, but reaching as far as Canada, USA, Mexico, Argentina on one side and Australia and NZ on the other.

The Swedish Pirates won one seat (should be two now..) in the European Parliament in 2009. European Pirates have run in many elections since then, and won seats in local parliaments in Germany, Switzerland, and Czech Republic.

The Pirate Parties International (PPI) is an association of many national or regional Pirate Parties, and requires members to have the word "Pirate" in their name. At their last conference in Friedrichshafen some weeks ago, the pirates of Canada, Maroc, Slovenia, and New Zealand were voted upon and welcomed as new members.

So, even as Pirates are critical on various "intellectual property" issues, the name "Pirate Party" has become a kind of international brand.
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Harrison Bean, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:27pm

How about the Cheapskate or freeloader party?
Or if you want to make it marginally nicer, call it the "free rider" party. After wading through all of the smoke and fog, it's clear that not paying is the main point of it all.
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crade (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:28pm

Maybe if we get enough experience at being rogues we can upgrade to the Ninja party.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:43pm

Re: My Contribution
....and they'd have healthy red cheeks, too....
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:46pm

If you're thinking of a single-issue party, perhaps the 'Freedom to Innovate party' would be the way to go - although I'd wager that simply participating in one of the "established" parties and adding this to their list of things they care about would be a better way to go.
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Fickelbra (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 12:57pm

Re: How about the Cheapskate or freeloader party?
Judging by the tone of this message, I assume you subscribe to the Troll party.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 1:05pm

Re: How about the Cheapskate or freeloader party?
Or if you want to make it marginally nicer, call it the "free rider" party. After wading through all of the smoke and fog, it's clear that not paying is the main point of it all.

Weird. While I'm sure some people do make that argument, we've rarely seen that to be the point of the issues raised here by anyone at all. In fact, we keep seeing that people are more than happy to pay when they realize they're supporting artists they like directly.

It seems like your claim is pure FUD.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 1:07pm

The problem with rebranding
One thing that the politicians and MAFIAA miss completely is that it doesn't matter what term they use. Over time that term will be used lightly and not in a bad way. They will continue to use it in an attempt to be derogatory, but it will fail to be so. Why? Because very few people see file sharing as a bad thing. Well over half of our own country here either view it as fine, or not a bad thing (even if they don't participate). As long as the public opinion is against what these special interests want, they can call it whatever they want but they can't change the people's opinion.

Youtube alone has helped call plenty of attention to how stupid copyright laws are. In plenty a video where either the audio was removed or the entire video, you can see people commenting how copyright just ruins things. Public opinion is against them, and anything they want to call file sharing is already on the path to the same fate as "pirating". It just isn't a bad thing.
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suchenwi, 12 Apr 2011 @ 1:30pm

Re: The problem with rebranding
File sharing is just a fact of life. Or, better: sharing of information. People talk, communicate. They lend books to each other. (Interestingly, no longer possible with e-books.) Sharing is caring.

I think, the bottom question in the "Pirates" affair is: how does an older world (including much of the media industry) deal with the fact that information sharing is easier than ever, and doesn't need intermediaries like MAFIAA and associates? Or: how do we deal with them?
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TPBer (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 1:39pm

Re: Re: Re: For Example
Very good Mr Tucker maybe you should run for party leader, I want to be part of this :)
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Prashanth (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 2:50pm

Truthfully, I'd rather not be associated with Sarah Palin. On the other hand, I would like to get my pirate's license in college. :)
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 3:24pm

Why "rogue"? Just get on with it and rename them "magnificent bastards".

"You counterfeited our goods, you magnificent bastard sites!". That'll definitely make them stop infringing on copypatentrightcounterfeitpiratedgoods.
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Niall (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 4:15pm

Re: How about the Cheapskate or freeloader party?
Or not wanting to pay over-priced, over-long monopoly rent party?
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Gwiz (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 5:50pm

Oh great.....now I'm going to have to listen to people call Mike a "rogue apologist" for the next year.
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MrWilson, 12 Apr 2011 @ 7:32pm

Re:
Rogue as in a flying, super strong, power-stealing Southern belle mutant with a weird white streak in her hair.
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Chargone (profile), 12 Apr 2011 @ 8:40pm

Re: Re:
*ponders*
can we be the first, run the second, and date the third? :P
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The eejit (profile), 13 Apr 2011 @ 2:09am

Re: Re: How about the Cheapskate or freeloader party?
Hmm...how about the Monopoly party? Where we do the exact opposite fo what's in the name.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 13 Apr 2011 @ 7:10am

Re: Re: The problem with rebranding
Very good questions. My best path to dealing with them so far is write my congress critters to not pass their stupid legislation while at the same time buy nothing they control. If they won't adapt then I will do all I can to ensure that they are removed from any position that can affect any new tech.
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