European Politicians Look To Ban WiFi In School... For The Children

from the not-this-again dept

Fri, May 20th 2011 8:37am — Mike Masnick

Every so often we hear from some random city where a bunch of folks who don't understand technology or radiation claim that WiFi is making people sick and it should be stopped. However, would all of Europe go that way? Apparently there's a proposal in the EU to ban all WiFi and cellular technology in schools to "protect" the children, of course. Notably, the proposal fails to provide any actual evidence, but uses the cop-out of "well, it could be harmful." The report says that since there is still research going on, we should wait until that research is done -- as if that kind of research is ever done. Even more ridiculous are things like:

pay particular attention to "electrosensitive" persons suffering from a syndrome of intolerance to electromagnetic fields and introduce special measures to protect them, including the creation of wave-free areas not covered by the wireless network;

How many times does this claim of "electrosensitive" persons need to be debunked? There is a ton of evidence that no such thing as electrosensitivity exists. There are studies that suggest the symptoms are real -- but they are not caused by exposure to electromagnetic fields (they may be caused by the person's own brain, or they may be some third factor). But there has been no serious study that has shown, in a controlled setting, that anyone can successfully and repeatedly "sense" when there's an electromagnetic field around. And we're talking dozens of studies on this, with pretty much all turning up the same result. So why should anyone create "wave free areas" since the evidence shows it won't actually do anything.

The proposal also suggests limits on wireless technology use even in your own home, saying that "preventative thresholds" should be established.

The proposal fails to cite any significant evidence to support most of its claims, instead choosing to use circumstantial claims -- such as noting that since there's an "ongoing public debate" about this, we should block it until that's all been worked out.

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Filed Under: eu, wifi, wireless

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johnjac (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 8:06am

Turnabout is fairplay
We should have law free zones for people to inhabit, until we can determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that laws have no harmful affect on people. For the children.
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Pickle Monger (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 8:18am

There are studies that suggest the symptoms are real -- but they are not caused by exposure to electromagnetic fields (they may be caused by the person's own brain, or they may be some third factor).

About, oh..., couple of hundred years ago Jerome K. Jerome wrote:
"And they didn�t give me pills; they gave me clumps on the side of the head. And, strange as it may appear, those clumps on the head often cured me � for the time being. I have known one clump on the head have more effect upon my liver, and make me feel more anxious to go straight away then and there, and do what was wanted to be done, without further loss of time, than a whole box of pills does now."
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chris (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 8:56am

don
the vast expanse between denver and kansas city is pretty much civilizaton
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chris (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 8:58am

don't we have these zones in the US already?
oops, hit enter too soon.

i was going to say that the expanse between denver and kansas city was pretty much civilization free, and therefore signal free as well.
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freak (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 9:06am

Man, we should totally ban radio to create electromagnetic free zones around schools.
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Mr. Smarta**, 20 May 2011 @ 9:06am

What about politicians?
You know, there really isn't any substantial evidence to prove politicians actually *help* the people... so perhaps they should be banned also.

Oh sure, there may have been a few helpful outcomes here and there, but who's to say those weren't merely coincidence.
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Adam Bell, 20 May 2011 @ 9:06am

"(they may be caused by the person's own brain, or they may be some third factor)"

I'd argue that the most likely is "some third factor": the child's nervous nellie luddite mother.
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Mr. Smarta**, 20 May 2011 @ 9:09am

Re:
The actual problem is that everything electric produces an electromagnetic field around it. Electrical wiring with any current running through it produces an electromagnetic field. If they want to ban electromagnetic signals, they would have to ban electricity entirely. That includes using candles for light.
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DogBreath, 20 May 2011 @ 9:12am

Glad to see the EU finally getting wise to the real problem,
as everyone should know by now, electricity and any thing to do with frequencies bad, because it is the devil's ether.

Just look at what they knew for certain back in the yesteryear of computer viruses:

SUBJ: Really Nasty Virus
AREA: GENERAL (1)

I've just discovered probably the world's worst computer virus yet. I had just finished a late night session of BBS'ing and file treading when I exited Telix 3 and attempted to run pkxarc to unarc the software I had downloaded. Next thing I knew my hard disk was seeking all over and it was apparently writing random sectors. Thank god for strong coffee and a recent backup.

Everything was back to normal, so I called the BBS again and downloaded a file. When I went to use ddir to list the directory, my hard disk was getting trashed again. I tried Procomm Plus TD and also PC Talk 3. Same results every time. Something was up so I hooked up to my test equipment and different modems (I do research and development for a local computer telecommunications company and have an in-house lab at my disposal).

After another hour of corrupted hard drives I found what I think is the world's worst computer virus yet. The virus distributes itself on the modem sub-carrier present in all 2400 baud and up modems. The sub-carrier is used for ROM and register debugging purposes only, and otherwise serves no othr (sp) purpose. The virus sets a bit pattern in one of the internal modem registers, but it seemed to screw up the other registers on my USR. A modem that has been "infected" with this virus will then transmit the virus to other modems that use a subcarrier (I suppose those who use 300 and 1200 baud modems should be immune). The virus then attaches itself to all binary incoming data and infects the host computer's hard disk. The only way to get rid of this virus is to completely reset all the modem registers by hand, but I haven't found a way to vaccinate a modem against the virus, but there is the possibility of building a subcarrier filter.

I am calling on a 1200 baud modem to enter this message, and have advised the sysops of the two other boards (names withheld). I don't know how this virus originated, but I'm sure it is the work of someone in the computer telecommunications field such as myself. Probably the best thing to do now is to stick to 1200 baud until we figure this thing out.

Mike RoChenle

And luckily someone came up with a fix for this just in the nick of time to prevent this disaster from destroying the planet:

Date: 11-31-88 (24:60) Number: 32769
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: ROBERT MORRIS III Read: (N/A)
Subj: VIRUS ALERT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Warning: There's a new virus on the loose that's worse than anything I've seen before! It gets in through the power line, riding on the powerline 60 Hz subcarrier. It works by changing the serial port pinouts, and by reversing the direction one's disks spin. Over 300,000 systems have been hit by it here in Murphy, West Dakota alone! And that's just in the last 12 minutes.

It attacks DOS, Unix, TOPS-20, Apple-II, VMS, MVS, Multics, Mac, RSX-11, ITS, TRS-80, and VHS systems.

To prevent the spread of the worm:

1) Don't use the powerline.
2) Don't use batteries either, since there are rumors that this
virus has invaded most major battery plants and is infecting the positive poles of the batteries. (You might try hooking up just the negative pole.)
3) Don't upload or download files.
4) Don't store files on floppy disks or hard disks.
5) Don't read messages. Not even this one!
6) Don't use serial ports, modems, or phone lines.
7) Don't use keyboards, screens, or printers.
8) Don't use switches, CPUs, memories, microprocessors, or mainframes.
9) Don't use electric lights, electric or gas heat or
airconditioning, running water, writing, fire, clothing or the wheel.

I'm sure if we are all careful to follow these 9 easy steps, this virus can be eradicated, and the precious electronic fluids of our computers can be kept pure.

---RTM III

Thank the powers that be that someone was on the ball and had the knowledge and foresight to prevent the world from ending, or we might not be here to read this "EU kernel of ultimate wisdom making decision" today.

I think that if we and the EU all follow the 9 steps listed above, we can prevent our certain demise...
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DannyB (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 9:14am

Re: Re:
The earth has a powerful magnetic field.

We need to ban the laws of nature. That way kooks can get the laws they want despite going against the very nature of reality. A physical laws free zone.

(I specifically include DRM supporters here since trying to make sequences of 1's and 0's not copyable is like trying to make water not wet.)
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 9:22am

I propose to protect the children we dress them in full armor of their choice, plate or chain mail. There are many benefits including but not limited to protection for : shark bites, butchers, sharp objects, dull objects, and politicians. While properly connected a full suit of armor will create a faraday cage to protect against a large range of electromagnetic frequencies for the "electrosensitive." This allows for modern technologies to continue to be used such as wireless communications, perfectly blending modern and ancient technologies.
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FuzzyDuck, 20 May 2011 @ 9:23am

It's from the council of Europe
It's from the Council of Europe (CoE), you know that totally irrelevant organization. It's supposed to supervise human rights in Europe but has no power to enforce anything, it can only advise.

The CoE has nothing to do with the European Union.
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indingoh, 20 May 2011 @ 9:25am

electromagnetic fields
Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire Earth surrounded by an electromagnetic field? You know... the thing that makes compasses work and prevents every living cell on the planet from lethal doses of solar radiation?
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Hephaestus (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 9:27am

Re: Re: Re:
The laws of physics trump the laws of man every time.

oh and ... "is like trying to make water not wet" ... its called ice.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 9:28am

High EMPs? You got entities!
I blame Ghosthunters.
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B's Opinion Only (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 9:32am

They would have to build their schools inside huge faraday cages with no electricity. Either that or ban: TV, radio, cel phones, police radios, microwave ovens, etc.
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Irving, 20 May 2011 @ 9:38am

For the children?
Isn't this more likely being pushed in order to reduce communication ability among the great unwashed?
WiFi and cell phones have been of great use in recent protests.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 9:44am

Re: electromagnetic fields
Yeah, but it's changeing just a tad slower than 1 hertz or once a second. Otherwise you'd see that compass change the direction it is pointing. I think they have a problem with certain frequencies of electromagnetic radiation, most ususally any new frequencies that are used in technology and can make news. Common classes of electromagnetic radiation that people know of are light, radio, x-rays,infrared, microwave. I think electrosensitivity is common, I know lots of people that can get headaches because of light, especially after large doses of alchohol
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PRMan, 20 May 2011 @ 9:48am

Sensing electromagnetic fields
"that anyone can successfully and repeatedly "sense" when there's an electromagnetic field around"

Well, sure you can. When I go to a park near my house, everyone's hair stands on end because of the massive electrical towers that the park is built under. So people absolutely can sense electromagnetic fields. You can feel static cling on a windy day or know that you are about to shock someone when you touch them.

But in the amounts of power that we are talking about with cellphones, it's true that it would be nearly impossible to sense anything.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 9:52am

Tedious debate
"...there's an "ongoing public debate" about this, we should block it until that's all been worked out."

There's an ongoing public debate about religion. Maybe we should ban that too until it's been worked out.
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DogBreath, 20 May 2011 @ 9:54am

Re: It's from the council of Europe
Council of Europe may be the ones saying it now, but it will be only a matter of time before it makes its way into the European Union lawmaking structure. They'll make it a "Human Rights" issue and by saying "Think of the Children", and shame the EU into enforcing the ban on electromagnetism.
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DogBreath, 20 May 2011 @ 9:57am

Re:
Old Movie: "The Boy in the Plastic Bubble" (TV 1976)

New Movie: "Boy in the Metal Faraday Cage" (2011?)
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Bengie, 20 May 2011 @ 9:57am

Cage
They'll need a Faraday cage, otherwise much stronger EM signals are coming in from many other sources.
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vastrightwing, 20 May 2011 @ 10:01am

Radiation
Wifi only? how about banning all RF transmitters? Yes, this includes TV, AM/FM radio, ham radio, satellite navigation systems, etc. Then we need to make sure we block UV, IR light and how about gamma rays, X-rays, etc. Then certain sound waves coming from certain music groups must also be harmful and the sound waves coming from all politicians is obviously harmful. As others have already pointed out, the 50 cycle EMI spewing out of power cords must also be harmful. The EU needs to block all of it now before more damage has occurred... for the children, of course.
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DogBreath, 20 May 2011 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: electromagnetic fields
I think electrosensitivity is common, I know lots of people that can get headaches because of light, especially after large doses of alchohol

Sounds can cause them too, also after consuming mass quantities of alcoholic beverages. Damn, another pile of frequencies that need to be banned.
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One_of_the_Norm (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 10:07am

Re:
Full armor? Excellent idea.

I further propose that while the child size full heavy metal body armor is in the manufacturing process that all families immediately encase their children in tin foil.

A tin foil hat has worked wonders on keeping the government spy satellites and EM radiation out of my brain.

Heh
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 10:09am

I heard california just moved all their electrosensitive people to the mountains if they refused to wear a tinfoil hat.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 10:09am

Re: Re:
You *know* light is an electromagnetic phenomenon, right? So even using candles is no good, since they also emit electromagnetic waves.
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DogBreath, 20 May 2011 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Until someone pulls out a hair dryer, then it's wet again.

Wouldn't that make a hair dryer a "circumvention device" and illegal to own under the DMCA?
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 10:14am

I don't mean to imply that mountains are without electromagnetic radiation, that idea must have gotten zapped into their head before they put on the tinfoil hat. It is just that there are creatures such as bears and mountain lions that will voice their belief in natural selection.
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Lewc_Stackwalker, 20 May 2011 @ 10:16am

WOW! And it's not even to protect them from...
...Porn. Or illegal downloads, or ???

Who saw that one not coming? I figured, for sure, that the rationale would be to prevent "the children" from unauthorized access to the innertube. I never figured it was an attempt to rewrite the laws of nature.

Just saw this joke posted in the office, the irony in how apropo it is to this story is amazing:

Man asks Genie to let him live forever.
Genie says "I can't grant wishes like that".
Man then asks to live until politicians get their heads out of their arses.
Genie says "You crafty bastard!".
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Doug B (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 10:18am

The Sun
The sun does far more damage to kids than any radio waves ever will. And that's a proven fact. Maybe we should ban it or ban going outside. Europe could build a great big sun shield and protect everyone from the evil sun!
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 10:50am

Re:
Why not just instead build a room full of faraday cubicles? Sure its more like a jail cell, but they could just tell the "electrosensitive" kids that they have been chosen to participate in an awesome historical simulation when kids worked by candlelight.
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btr1701 (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 10:52am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
> "is like trying to make water not wet" ...
> its called ice.

Don't know about you, but every time I've picked up an ice cube, my hand comes away wet.
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Gwiz (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 10:54am

Wave Free Areas
So why should anyone create "wave free areas" since the evidence shows it won't actually do anything.

The only places that should be "wave free" are sports stadiums.

The last time I was at the ball game, that damn wave came around and everyone stood up with their arms raised and resulted in a severe case of alcohol abuse when the gal next to me knocked the beer from my hand.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 10:54am

Re:
voice their belief in natural selection.

Well said!
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DogBreath, 20 May 2011 @ 11:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If ice was copyrighted, your hands would be declared, "circumvention tools" and illegal to own under the DMCA.

Your Notice:

"Please remove and destroy said devices, unless you wish to face possible civil remedies and criminal penalties for violations under the anti-circumvention provisions. If the violations are determined to be willful and for commercial purposes or private financial gain, such as melting ice with your hands to sell as water, courts can order significant fines and/or imprisonment."
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freak (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 11:17am

Re: Glad to see the EU finally getting wise to the real problem,
I hadn't previously heard this version of the story, but is that THE rtm responding?

Several things about that response strike me as odd, for example, the fact that he signs it "RTM III" instead of his usual "rtm".

Is there a larger website you pulled this from? I wouldn't mind taking a look over some hacker folklore I somehow haven't encountered yet.
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Atkray (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 11:19am

The way things are going
Re-post the first post in a few more months an it will be accurate.
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monkyyy, 20 May 2011 @ 12:00pm

Re: The Sun
agreed when sleep deprived (i.e. always) i get "electro-sentive" to light
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Jesse Townley (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 1:05pm

Oh geez, this is one of my pet peeves...
Besides running a record label, I'm also an elected member of the Berkeley Rent Board and have been active in the local Green Party & other progressive organizations for years.

It drives me batty when political allies & friends who are otherwise on target start going on about the health effects of cell towers or- this is the new one in California- SmartMeters. These are new electric meters that the local, rapacious, corrupt power company (PG&E) have begun to install. (I'm fine with people attacking them because of possible PG&E chicanery- it's just the health aspect that bugs me)

I try to swallow my snark & deal with it firmly but diplomatically in public. Science is science, and fear & unquantifiable rumors are quite another.

P.S.- I used to work w/ Environmentally Ill (EI) people and the most affected (those who are home-bound & have extreme health effects) are totally open about their belief that yes, their environmental sickness is at least part mental. These folks are generally reacting more to man-made toxic chemicals in grooming & cleaning products than RF.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 1:19pm

Re: Oh geez, this is one of my pet peeves...
Do you have a point or just wanted to point our your a liberal douche?
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DogBreath, 20 May 2011 @ 1:30pm

Re: Re: Glad to see the EU finally getting wise to the real problem,
I hadn't previously heard this version of the story, but is that THE rtm responding?

Several things about that response strike me as odd, for example, the fact that he signs it "RTM III" instead of his usual "rtm".

I can't be sure if it's actually the infamous "rtm", but I do recall personally reading this "VIRUS ALERT" message on a dial-up BBS back in 89'. His name was already known, and suspected of causing the worm by the time the date on the message was originally sent:

Portrait of an artist as a young hacker
November 14, 1988 12:00 PM ET
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9129344/Portrait_of_an_artist_as_a_young_hacker

so the message could have been done as a joke against him also.

Here is where I grabbed the text from this time:
http://cluestick.info/hoax/History_of_Virus_Hoaxes.htm

and here is a link showing it already circulating in Jan 89', just two months after the "Morris Worm" was released onto the unsuspecting net:
http://www.textfiles.com/humor/COMPUTER/virus.hack

I wouldn't mind taking a look over some hacker folklore I somehow haven't encountered yet.

Take a look in here. Nice collection of various bits of history from 1980-1995, you may know some or most of it already, but might be surprised at what you never knew:
http://www.textfiles.com
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 2:07pm

I am sure the electromagnetics put off by the wifi pails in comparisson to the 1 billion with a B megawatts that are safe to blast into the ionisphere via HARRP et al per their environmental impact study. But we don't care about the kids in rural areas surrounding those antenna fields... I wonder why. (sigh)
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Anonymous Coward, 20 May 2011 @ 4:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ice and water are two different words for a reason, they have two different meanings. If you want to refer to water's chemical formula, you would say H2O or, if you want to scare politicians, Dihydrogen Monoxide. Ice is H2O in its solid form whereas water is H2O in its liquid form (steam is H2O in its gaseous form).
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trish, 20 May 2011 @ 5:37pm

public debate
There's also ongoing public debate on whether or not the Rapture will happen tomorrow. You know what that means; be terrified people!
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Bergman (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 6:30pm

Claiming that electrosensitivity doesn't exist because it is caused by the person's own brain is fallacious to the point of absurdity. Applying that logic to other things, would result in schizophrenia, concussions and brain aneurysms not existing either, because they also happen only in the person's brain.

It's not unusual for people with autism to have one or more senses boosted to a high level, with little or no ability to ignore or filter that sense. A common one is hearing, where the autistic person hears normal, every day sounds as if they were at rock concert intensity. A rare one is electrosensitivity. But it does happen.

To the best of my knowledge, no study has ever identified the portion of the human brain responsible for being able to sense the Earth's magnetic field. Some biologists go so far as to claim humans lack that sense. And yet, some people always know where magnetic north is.
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freak (profile), 20 May 2011 @ 6:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Glad to see the EU finally getting wise to the real problem,
"but might be surprised at what you never knew"

It's hacker culture, that's a given. Geez, I still remember the first version of the jargon file I found . . .

By this time, I've already tracked down this email to one of it's earliest incarnations, and the email appears to be genuine; in that the parts that struck me as suspect, including the signature, were added later. It was at least definitely meant to be attributed to mister Robert Tappan Morris.
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Togashi (profile), 21 May 2011 @ 12:05pm

Re:
The claim isn't that electrosensitivity doesn't exist because it's all in the person's brain, the claim is that it doesn't exist because it isn't actually affected by the presence of electromagnetic fields. You can take a person claiming to be electrosensitive into a room right next to a high-powered transmitter and ask them whether it's on or off, and they won't be able to tell you with a reliability better than random chance if it's powered or not.
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Jesse Townley (profile), 21 May 2011 @ 5:12pm

Re: Re: Oh geez, this is one of my pet peeves...
Nice one, troll.

Just pointing out that it's not just right-wingers who are afraid of flouride in the water, the Illuminati, and wear tin-foil hats.

Providing balance. Carry on being anonymous, buddy.
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 21 May 2011 @ 7:07pm

Overheard At A Demonstration
�Hi. Yes, I�m at the demonstration. What? What was that? To protest these heartless greedy corporations putting up their cell-phone towers so close to these vulnerable, defenceless children at this school. I SAID TO PROTEST ... sorry, I�ll try to get a clearer signal. Can you hear me now? Damn these cell-phone companies, why don�t they invest more in their networks ...�
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David, 23 May 2011 @ 10:17am

ban the wifi, legalize jammers
"There is a ton of evidence that no such thing as electrosensitivity exists. There are studies that suggest the symptoms are real -- but they are not caused by exposure to electromagnetic fields (they may be caused by the person's own brain, or they may be some third factor). "

Peanut allergies (as with other allergies) also are caused by a persons own brain or some third factor.

It is a good call to protect sensitive children.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 May 2011 @ 2:39am

Re: ban the wifi, legalize jammers
No, peanut allergies are caused be the immune system, not the brain.
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Niall (profile), 24 May 2011 @ 5:59am

Re: Re: It's from the council of Europe
Fortunately, "Think of the Children" (TM C patent pending) is owned by OVERCAPITALISING RIGHT-WING NANNY STATERS OF KENTUCKY and is therefore not an available option in the European Union (TM C patent pending Charles de Gaulle, valid until tomorrow + 70 years).
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michelle, 19 Jun 2011 @ 5:45pm

EHS
You are all absolute fools. You are criticizing people who are sensitive because their genetic make-up is different to yours. Start learning and stop leaning on your misinformed idiocy. Just hope you don't become sensitive in the meantime!
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M., 12 Aug 2011 @ 12:08am

EHS
http://www.citizensforsafetechnology.com/uploads/scribd/McCarty%20Marino%202011%20EMF%20ES%20&%2 0neurological%20syndrome%20Int%20J%20Neurosci%20July.pdf
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M., 12 Aug 2011 @ 12:10am

EHS
Here is a study of an EHS sensitive woman. It has been published in the Journal for Neuroscience just a few days ago.

http://www.citizensforsafetechnology.com/uploads/scribd/McCarty%20Marino%202011%20EMF%20ES%20& amp;%20neurological%20syndrome%20Int%20J%20Neurosci%20July.pdf
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Paul Brown, 23 Aug 2011 @ 10:25am

Doubtful
I don't believe WiFi to be harmful at all. Some may be more sensitive to it then others I guess, but that's pretty much the case with anything though Isn't it? If WiFi was harmful then a large majority of people, and pretty much everyone in the business world, would of suffered the effects by now.
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Czyk2Tech, 26 Dec 2011 @ 6:57pm

WiFi Health Concerns
1 - I no longer trust the government when they tell me something is safe
2 - I trust industry groups even less.
3 - I have read enough to be VERY concerned about exposure to EMFs, WiFi, etc.
4 - The writers who include insults and scoffing dismissals contribute nothing useful to the conversation.
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