John Lennon On Copying Others' Music: It's Not A Rip Off, It's A Love In
from the copying-can-be-love dept
Aaron DeOliveira points us to this wonderful bit of historical trivia, involving John Lennon's 1971 response to an article in the NY Times that accused the Beatles of "ripping off" certain black musicians who the band covered. However, John Lennon saw it quite differently:In Flight... yesWhen we talk about things like mashups, remixes, covers, tributes, homage and other such works that so directly build off of the past, we're quite frequently told that this is not art and that people should "make their own." It's a common refrain we hear here all too often. And yet, they never seem to recognize that replaying what you've heard before is an important part of culture. It's a way of sharing, spreading and building culture by connecting it with a larger group of people. It wasn't a rip off, it was a love in.
Altitude... puzzled
Location... yes
14th Sep. 71.
Dear Craig McGregor
'Money', 'Twist 'n' Shout', 'You really got a hold on me' etc, were all numbers we (the Beatles) used to sing in the dancehalls around Britain, mainly Liverpool. It was only natural that we tried to do it as near to the record as we could - i always wished we could have done them even closer to the original. We didn't sing our own songs in the early days - they weren't good enough - the one thing we always did was to make it known that these were black originals, we loved the music and wanted to spread it in any way we could. in the '50s there were few people listening to blues - R + B - rock and roll, in America as well as Britain. People like - Eric Burdons Animals - Micks Stones - and us drank ate and slept the music, and also recorded it, many kids were turned on to black music by us.
It wasn't a rip off.
it was a love in,
John Lennon
P.S. what about the 'B' side of Money?
P.P.S. even the black kids didn't dig blues etc it wasn't 'sharp' or something.
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Filed Under: copying, john lennon
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Bastard
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Can't wait to see handwritten notes from the guys who actually wrote the songs - oh, wait, they never learned to write. Suckers.
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Big deal.
If you use a power shovel, you can make a mountain out of that molehill faster.
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There are also tons of famous bands and artists who have released cover songs on albums and singles.
There really isn't anything new here. This isn't shocking. Bands do it today just as they did 40 years ago. It's a non-issue. Many bands do covers of obscure songs. They generally all credit the original, and normally pay a rights fee to do so.
I am sorry if I miss something unique in the story. Lennon loved "black" music. So what? Every artist is influenced by the music they hear. So what?
Please Marcus, you are so much wiser than the rest of us. Explain it to the poor quivering masses.
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This is the part where we discuss ASCAP, using copyright law, to enforce a tithe on a business that is completely asinine, shutting down the business.
This is also the part where you see that bands use earlier songs to build up a fanbase and succeed quickly.
"So what?"
The "what" as you mention, is that culture builds not around copyright, but around shared experiences. 5,000 people go to a concert, they want to tweet about it. If a song is to be developed using the lyrics of Amanda Palmer and the voice of Brie Larson, people want to hear about it. Such are the limits of copyright law on the enjoyment of entertainment (ie culture)
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If you want to perform a song by another artist, you get the rights (there are methods to pay those rights) and away you go. If you want to record it and sell it, same thing.
It's not really hard.
What this Lennon letter proves is that it worked in the past, we know it works currently, and it will work in the future, and the presence of copyright didn't stop any of it. Our shared culture is shared culture, and copyright doesn't harm that. The only think copyright stops is people who aren't respecting others.
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Copryright is causing the direct loss of the early history of jazz. It directly caused the loss of a number of Doctor Who episodes. IT is actively harming the cultural value of the current generation's creations.
And as for, "The only think copyright stops is people who aren't respecting others."
1) it's 'thing'; and
2) copyright doesn't even do that efficiently. It allows a certain class of people to get rich - I'll givwe you a hint: it's not the creators.
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That right there is one of the most anti-cultural things I've read lately. Screw spontaneity, screw any moment of collective conciousness, screw whatever someone may have brought to their interpretation of a work, kill it dead 'cause someone didn't have the ability to foresee the future minute by minute...
Grotesque.
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Would they? I thought that was the responsibility of the venue, not the artist. One of the problems with recent industry freakouts has been that increased license fees have shut down venues depending on bands getting their early breaks in the way The Beatles did.
Not to mention that if the industry has at one point changed from license fees not being required to them being necessary, perhaps the industry could swing back the other way? It's not inconceivable that what was once necessary for progress is now a hindrance.
"If you use a power shovel, you can make a mountain out of that molehill faster."
I see no attempts to make a mountain out a molehill. I do see yet another AC post that attempts to deliberately misrepresent or misinterpret Mike's article to mean something other than was presumably intended.
In this case, Mike pointing out an interesting quote from an industry insider that contradicts the tired idea that the only people who care about a right to copy or mimic are "thieves" and that "originality" is only enjoyed by those who create from whole cloth. It's an illustration of a point that's made many times.
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"In this case, Mike pointing out an interesting quote from an industry insider that contradicts the tired idea that the only people who care about a right to copy or mimic are "thieves" and that "originality" is only enjoyed by those who create from whole cloth. It's an illustration of a point that's made many times"
Here I have to disgree rather strongly. There is an incredible difference between a band recording their version of a song "from scratch", using their own musical skills and instruments, when compare to a "sampling" artist who uses almost no musical skills, doesn't use an instrument, and basically copies the music work of someone else.
It isn't to say that the sampling artists aren't talented in some ways (such as programming), but they didn't make the music themselves. They let others do it for them.
There is a huge difference between picking up a guitar and learning power cords, as opposed to just sampling someone else's power cords and claiming them as your own.
What Mike is trying to do is add confusion to the debate, to move the goal posts, to re-frame the argument. It's a failure from end to end, because it is just too transparent.
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But, the band does not pay these fees directly, nor are they responsible for ensuring compliance with current legislation. Which is what I said.
"There is an incredible difference between a band recording their version of a song "from scratch", using their own musical skills and instruments, when compare to a "sampling" artist who uses almost no musical skills, doesn't use an instrument, and basically copies the music work of someone else."
Ah, the old "I don't like it nor understand it, so it doesn't count" argument...
I've heard some atrocious musicians in my time, as well as many professionals who can't play more than 3 chords or basic drum patterns. Most musicians, especially when starting out, will not create anything original but just try to mimic their musical heroes.
On the other hand, I've heard DJs and sampling artists create some astonishing music, often turning sampled works into something completely new. Sometimes the lines can be completely blurred. For example, the classic single Loaded by Primal Scream from their seminal album Screamadelica was in reality a remix of a previous single combined with samples from other artists. Is this not an original work simply because it utilises samples?
You might say, yeah but they can't play live, can they? Actually, a friend of mine is a big fan of Beardyman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XryzjprNqE for a quick example, there's many, with and without samplers). If you're not familiar, this is a UK champion beatboxer who has moved on to playing live gigs using samplers. He samples - live - his own voice, then works with the resulting sample, adding new samples and creates new compositions on the fly. Whether or not you like the resulting music, you can't tell me he's not using the samples and other equipment as instruments that require skill as much as any other live instrument.
You are correct in that live instrumentation and sampling can require different skills, but you're wrong if you think there's no art, skill and - yes - creativity involved with good examples of the work.
"There is a huge difference between picking up a guitar and learning power cords, as opposed to just sampling someone else's power cords and claiming them as your own."
What about sampling them, crediting the original artist then creating something brand new using those sounds? How many power chords actually exists, anyway? Is using the same chord someone else used in the past uncreative, or does it only count if you try to recreate it with a string instead of a chip?
"What Mike is trying to do is add confusion to the debate, to move the goal posts, to re-frame the argument."
No, you are claiming Mike is doing something he isn't, then trying to act like your own opinion is some kind of universal truth. You're the goal post mover here, there's been no change in Mike's argument.
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Sampling with approval, sampling without approval comes to the same thing: They aren't musicians, they are technicians. I can appreciate the skills required, and often enjoy the music that results, but I am easily able to understand the difference. Only one of those "artists" is likely to be able to play their music around a camp fire on a guitar.
I don't ignore the "art", I am only saying it starts from different points. One is wholly original, made with your own hands (think building a house) and the other is made by using what other people have already built (think the guy who put the lawn in front of the house). Both are arts, both require skill, and I can appreciate both. They are different things, that is all.
As for your beatboxer example, my answer is always the same: Without the art of someone else, without the actual musical ability of someone else, his "resulting music" would be empty space. You can think of his samples as instruments, but that is to ignore the completeness of the original songs, performances, and the like. I would be way more impressed if you told me that he spent time in the studio, playing various instruments in order to create the samples he works from. Just sampling others seems like a real waste.
What is key here is that what Lennon and the Beatles did was always a new performance, from scratch, of the music they loved. Their own take, their own inflections, their own rendition. It depended on someone else's song writing skills, but didn't depend on any of their performing skills. The difference between that and a guy with a sampler is rather large. You have to cover one eye and squint really hard to try to make them look the same.
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"As for your beatboxer example, my answer is always the same: Without the art of someone else, without the actual musical ability of someone else, his "resulting music" would be empty space."
So, you didn't bother watching the video then to show that he created the sounds from scratch with his own voice? Clearly, we're done here if you can't even view the evidence I show you proving that your opinion does not equal fact.
I think we're done, and ask myself yet again why I try to debate self-admitted cowards such as yourself.
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If he is using only his own instrument (his own voice) then there really isn't any issue, is there? He is doing what I have suggested, which is playing your instrument rather than letting someone else play it for you. How he chooses to manipulate it after is an artistic choice.
I didn't watch the video (I don't have all day to watch stuff, sorry). I took your words and worked with them. If I misunderstood that part I am sorry. Can you be more clear next time?
BTW, nice that you ignored the rest of my post, and how it applies to almost every "sampling" artist out there.
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It is a weak argument.
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In that case, I apologise for the poor explanation.
"BTW, nice that you ignored the rest of my post, and how it applies to almost every "sampling" artist out there."
However, you do seem to deliberately ignore every point I made. The simple fact is that there is a massive gulf between some "sample artists" (e.g. Beasties Boys' Paul's Boutique) and others (Puff Daddy's early hits). By dismissing an entire genre of music because you don't like it makes you look like a dick. Sorry, but it does.
Everything you claimed in the previous message stemmed from the the fact that you think that sampling is inferior to string instruments, which is totally subjective, and does not make your personal opinion into trutrh. Sorry.
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Don't confuse how I feel about the process with the end product. That is where you miss my points, because you are confusing what you think is a subjecting appraisal of the end product itself with a subjective appraisal of how they get there.
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Interesting. You do realize that photography is one of the purest forms of "copying" there is, right? Why is that okay?
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When the AC takes photographs they are of sights so splendidly original that our tiny human brains can barely understand.
I love this blog. I'm slowly starting to hate the comments. Willful ignorance can't be cured, that's why it's called willful.
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So you think innovation is impossible? Maybe I'm reading your comment wrong.
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So, they're creating great art using high quality techniques. Yet, you think the guy who's just trying to copy James Hetfield's power chords is more of an artist because he plucks some strings? There's a disconnect, I think.
"That is where you miss my points,"
So far, your points appear to have been: "a "sampling" artist who uses almost no musical skills, doesn't use an instrument, and basically copies the music work of someone else". Your words, and I haven't seen you go past that argument.
My points have been: many "sampling artists" are talented musicians in their own right (many, such as Pendulum, BT and - yes - Fatboy Slim are either classically trained and/or work successfully with live instruments) and that the equipment they use can be instruments as much as traditional equipment (Terminator X's live skills, for example, or the current equipment used by the likes of Beardyman). Most importantly, the "copied" work is often just the foundation of the new work rather than its entirety - and that's where the art comes from. Yeah, many "sampling" artists would be nowhere without the work to sample, but then the Stones and the Beatles would be nowhere without the artists they imitated.
None of your points seem to be backed up by anything other than subjective opinion. We can agree to disagree, but like so many regular ACs here you seem to have cherry picked a particular point made by Mike in the article (mentioned samplers) while ignoring others (the comments on covers, tributes, etc. in the same damn sentence).
If you accept that what you're saying is a perfectly subjective opinion, then wecan agree to disagree. But, if you think you have a valid universal truth somewhere in your points, you're sadly very much mistaken.
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No one is claiming the power chord units as their own. They are claiming the musical piece that results from taking those sounds and putting them together in an extensive and fairly new way.
>> One is wholly original, made with your own hands
The musician did not process the minerals or build the tools required to process the minerals or grow the tree or build the tools that shape the wood or shape the wood, etc. The musician bought an almost entirely built musical tool and then took samples of the sounds that instrument makes and stringed them in some order and with some variation to create the ultimate composition.
The person who samples likewise starts off with a particular sound and then strings it together to create music and an entirely new composition from a set of sounds and any other variations added.
They do start at different levels, but if the person who created the instrument doesn't get a royalty and requires a license for every particular use of the instrument, why should the musician or composer? Why shouldn't the tree grower get rights that require licensing for any use of that tree?
Of course, it would be stifling to try and deal at the "license every use" level, no matter who we are talking about.
>> I would be way more impressed if you told me that he spent time in the studio, playing various instruments in order to create the samples he works from. Just sampling others seems like a real waste.
That's like saying that the music is only the power chords that were sampled.
That is garbage and totally false. Play a power chord. Then play it again. Then again. You will not have a very large audience or make very much money unless you do something else creative with it.
The DJs add a lot of creativity to these basic sounds. If not, no one would pay attention by just playing a power chord over and over and over ad nauseam.
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The power cord reference isn't just to the cord itself, but to how each individual person plays them. No two people play exactly the same, no two musicians will get the same sound, especially when they start to put them together. A DJ will always have the same sound, because he isn't making sounds, he is just using other people's musical expression and claiming it as his own. That is a fail, as far as I can see.
They start at different levels, and just like that house painter, if you say he is a great house painter, I will likely agree. Tell me he builds great houses, and I will laugh.
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Or are they not "real" artists?
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The played chords form a very small unit of time. A full composition by a sampling artist is much longer in duration and does modify the individual unit sounds through many manipulations of processing algorithms as these are strung together.
I understand your point that just as a typical band depends on writers and on tree makers and on many engineers who craft many tools (from tool-making tools all the way down to sound electronics of all sorts), as well as on many other artists for ideas and inspiration, so too does someone who uses samples depend on others, essentially being one layer up to leverage all that came before to create something larger a bit more efficiently.
I understand your point that different people play different roles and can be called different names.
Do you understand the point that the best houses require many diverse contributions from many contributors, who are able to earn a living without relying on monopolies?
One topic we (the techdirt community in general and this article more specifically) are talking about is creating music and supporting creativity and how copyright as it exists today puts up a wall against a lot of great creative expression that otherwise would exist. Copyright bestows one type of monopoly to a single "copywriter" who leverages the work of many others who work hard and are creative in different ways in order for the copywriter to be able to create something. That wall prevents progress, *at least* to the extent this progress would be created by those of us who don't have billions in the bank and an army of lawyers but who otherwise can create from sampling or from otherwise more easily leveraging existing copyrighted works. Copyright does not stop, generally, a new artistic band from coming around, but it certainly stops many other artists that take bits and pieces of the products of traditional bands in order to make their artistic contributions.
Recognizing that not all sampling is the same, many people (including researchers) believe that some degree of more limited copyright might be useful or at least form an acceptable compromise among all the current stakeholders; however, techdirt and others do try to make the case that in the Internet world copyright in many forms (and certainly as it exists today) gets in the way more than it helps.
It might be useful to go into the case studies section of techdirt to see how many groups have embraced "piracy" of their own works in order to grow their market and incomes significantly. Many have also formally embraced "piracy" via many types of zero royalty and near zero restriction society-friendly copyright licenses. So these are artists and writers who have figured out ways where dropping restrictions, even without reciprocation from most others, helps them today. At a minimum, most of these people appear to recognize that wholesale piracy makes their works and their reputations spread much farther, increasing their potential for income significantly. With so much information around us competing for our attention, lowering the entry bar much further than traditional copyright restrictions helps most creative authors. Digital information is extremely cheap (with some of the costs picked up by the end user and other distributors) so you can give away freebies on a tiny budget ad infinitum just about.
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No matter how compelling the result, modifying the copyright rules only to satisfy sampling "artists" would be a bad move, because it would only happen because we are attempting to backfill a legal issue. Legalizing an illegal act only to avoid hassles seems like a poor choice.
Ripping rights away from one group to give to another seems arbitrary. Most of the suggestions here for shortening the copyright term would make copyright so short, that many musical acts would find themselves in competition with their own works later in their careers. How odd!
There are plenty of people embracing "piracy", as is the common phrase here, but they aren't really embracing it from a desire to thumb their noses at the man, but rather because they can see that this illegal process may allow them to also sneak their works in and get the exposure they were not getting otherwise. In most cases, if they were in fact having to give up real and actual income to do it, they wouldn't be there. Almost every case study here involves people giving away what wasn't being sold anyway.
Further, and this is the important part, if everyone was using it, it likely wouldn't be a very functional way to get exposure anyway, because you would be fighting against so many others. It works now because it is still a fairly rare way to get distribution.
There is never any restriction on an artist in this manner. Unless they have a signed contract that says they cannot, they are always free to give away their works. That isn't something that changed when the internet came around. The only restrictions artists have is the ones they place upon themselves, by working with illegal source material (samples, or using someone else's songs without paying royalties / obtaining rights), or by signing recording deals that limit their choices, etc. Otherwise, they are as free as anyone else to do what they want. I am not limiting, you are not limiting, they are limiting themselves.
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I'm assuming, then, that you don't consider electronic keyboard players musicians, either. After all, all they're doing is pushing a button and having a computer device make sounds that were pre-programmed by someone else.
The power cord reference isn't just to the cord itself, but to how each individual person plays them. No two people play exactly the same, no two musicians will get the same sound, especially when they start to put them together.
That sounds like most DJs and remix artists I know.
DJ will always have the same sound, because he isn't making sounds, he is just using other people's musical expression and claiming it as his own. That is a fail, as far as I can see.
That's simply not true.
They start at different levels, and just like that house painter, if you say he is a great house painter, I will likely agree. Tell me he builds great houses, and I will laugh
Exactly. Which is why keyboard players aren't musicians, in your book.
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Wow... You'll have to tell me where you are and which clubs you frequent, because that sound incredibly dull.
For those of us who don't live in Dullsville, you couldn't be more wrong. Even in the early days of DJing, it was the blend of the tunes that was as important as the records being played. The techniques invented by Terminator X weren't game changing because they were same sounds every time, nor do Carl Cox's 3 deck sets and Masters At Work's 6 deck sets get noticed because they're the same as the source material.
In the modern era, the rise of laptop DJing has led to incredible new techniques that can completely alter a song while playing, sampling & remixing on the fly. Hell, even the cheaper kits today usually allow easy manipulation of the sound with quick samples and pitch/speed shifting options. Sasha cited the release of Ableton Live as being the key thing that stopped him from quitting DJing because he felt he'd reached the limit of the creativity he could achieve with traditional methods - is he delusional, or are you misinformed?
I understand what you're saying about the house painter, but what you seem to be doing is to dismiss anyone who happens to work with paint as a house painter...
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Re: Re: Re: to Anonymous Coward, Jun 18th, 2011 @ 11:55pm
every time i see it used in context with art or anything really i just facepalm in a sad attempt at keeping my hypocrisy detector from exploding
i'm going to just start saying anyone who brings up "originality" in this sort of way as someone lacking communication skills, doesn't make any sense of course but that's the point
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Sad
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Don't conflate cover songs with the rest of your pro-piracy BS.
The NYT article claimed that bands that covered black artists rarely credited or compensated them. And they were 100% correct about that.
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... and therefore one should not listen to anything they had to say because it's like a communicable disease.
btw - when it comes to boogie men, terrorist is the new communist.
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Paypal me at:
PirateDouchesSuckGoatCock@freetardsrus.de
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Sound familiar?
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Greedy Anonymous Cowards
As soon as MusOpen finishes their current Kickstarter project you will be quite free to do that but in a somewhat indirect manner.
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1. It's Geeks, not nerds
2. We probably understand it better than you do. If it wasn't for us, you'd still be beating two rocks together and call that music.
3. When was the last time you used an equalizer and actually knew what you were doing, as opposed to just randomly move sliders until stuff sounded "right"?
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Geeks would be Ozzy Osborne (look up the original definition)
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A bat is not a chicken, but the objection remains.
A Geek is a circus performer who bites the heads off of chickens during their act.
Ozzy bit the head off of a bat during a performance.
However, the word "geek", like "fag" and "hack", have changed meanings over the years, which is common with live languages. Just because they meant something 100 years ago doesn't mean that they will continue to have the same meaning now. Robert Heinlein used the word "geek" to ascribe to extremely knowledgable (almost fanatical) people in 1952, and even then, the word was commonly used for its new meaning then too.
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So you are saying that we are able to have the Beatles and many other great experiences thanks to not having to deal with licensing issues and extra costs?
Just imagine what we are missing today because we can't do to Beatles songs what the Beatles did to others. The Beatles copyright enforcement has denied society the natural progress that would have resulted in Beatles Next Gen.
This seems to be your point. Am I right?
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I take it back. Reading the other comments (and being a nerd), I now see that the rules of the copyright game appear to be different when you copy wholesale from a composer v. when you sample a tiny amount of sound from a musician.
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I never really liked the Beatles.
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The "rip-off" occurred when artists such as Led Zeppelin recorded what were essentially - and in some cases literally - cover versions of songs and claimed the credit (and royalties) for themselves. In the case of LZ some of the original writers, Willie Dixon for example, were eventually compensated but many never were.
AC above is correct, you've conflated two entirely different scenarios.
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DJ BC
Via Wikipedia.
Granted, it wasn't Lennon harassing him.
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I've changed my tune with a lot of bands since turning 30, but not them...
beatles = boring bubble gum music
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What's the big deal? I don't get how you think anyone throws someone under the bus. Lennon is only stating something that is common currency and completely functional under the laws of copyright of the day and of today.
I don't see Lennon disagreeing with any of that.
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Lennon's always been an annoying hippy.
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Re: Lennon's always been an annoying hippy.
Closed minds are ridiculous.
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Re: Lennon's always been an annoying hippy.
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Monkey see, monkey do.
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Corporate peons
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Now I can refer to John Lennon
I'd love to know what Lennon would say today. He truly was a visionary for his time. The man was able to communicate ideology through music in a way that almost no one could misinterpret. He was a talented artist, even if you didn't like his art...
As for The Beatles, say what you want about them. You may not like their music and that's fine. But to deny the impact they had socially is absurd. Furthermore, to deny the impact they had on music is completely ridiculous. I wish I could assemble a reel of all the musicians who have cited them as influences.
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This applies
Way before anyone tried to monetize culture, before they felt the need to brain wash you into the defective little anger nuggets you are, real people were doing, sharing and making culture. It wasn't all good, but it didn't belong to people.
It's a fact that not everyone got credit. That happens everyday. IBM says it make the personal computer, you gonna go right that wrong now?
Picking your battles and trolling this site is just as bad biting someone else's work and not crediting. It shows the same self serving desire to bring someone down at your own benefit, twisting the momentum of their work to your own ends.
Don't be haters. Contribute and share. Is someone going to rip you off? Maybe if you do a good enough job. Of course if you are working at that level you may just want to keep working for the love of it, rather than hunt down and fret over every injustice.
Cause the secret is that there is only so much you can do, and worrying about it adds nothing to your life. The love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Re: This applies
When anybody tells me its annoying and wrong(culturally) I tell them in my most morbid joke I have in my repertoire. Fine, lets shoot all the kids because this is how they learn to function as an adult.
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The 'ripped off black artists' theme is tired and corrupt. Black artists (and white artists, and Cajun artists, and Romany artists...etc) happily ripped each other off for many decades, or centuries, before copyright BS came along to FURTHER ENRICH THE WEALTHY FEW.
Traditionals, spirituals, folk songs, etc. made up the bulk of the black (etc) musical experience. No single author, just a constantly-evolving cultural expression. Love it or don't do it at all, but don't call yourself an 'artist' and don't whine about getting paid for it.
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Someone mentioned Led Zeppelin, and yes, that's a great example (probably the best example) of a band that ripped-off black artists and put their own names on the songs as though they wrote them, and the law-suits keep on coming forty years later.
Also, a little context might be helpful. When the Beatles started, bands did not record their own material. Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Little Richard were the exceptions, not the rule. Everyone recorded songs written by somebody else, either covers or songs written by people like Bryant and Bryant, Goffin and King, Lieber and Stoller, etc.. The Beatles changed all that forever.
Not to mention this little fact: these days, bands put out albums every couple of years, some bands every five years or more. The Beatles recorded and released 15 albums worth of material over six years. 211 songs, 185 written by them. In six years. Two or three albums a year, plus singles (which generally weren't on the album, because they thought that was cheating, and unfair to the fans who would have to buy the song twice).
of the 26 covers, I count 16 that could be considered to be written by black artists. And that number gets smaller when you consider that some of those black artists did not write those songs themselves (and so would not be getting paid by a cover version -- it's the writer who gets paid, unless he's sold his publishing rights).
For example, "Twist and Shout," since it's mentioned in the letter. The Beatles covered the Isley Brothers version. But the Isleys were covering an earlier record by the the Top Notes, called "Shake It Up Baby." The song was not written by the Isleys (obviously) or the Top Notes. It was written by two white American guys, Medley and Russell. And those two guys are the ones who profited from all three of those versions, plus all the ones to follow.
What a horrible "rip off" for them.
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What's your problem, troll??
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Re: What's your problem, troll??
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Sounds fine to me.
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...That's fine (in the 'Fucked-up, Insecure, Neuroptic and Emotional' way).
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Highest form of flattery
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Re: Highest form of flattery
That's the way it is, the way it has always been.
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WOW!
I say "let it be guys" there is no need to "shout." It's just "a day in the life" of techdirt and not such a big deal. I understand some of you may have had a "hard day's night" but you have to keep in mind we are talking about fundamental rights but getting "nowhere man!" Treat her well or "She's leaving home." I know "she's so heavy" a topic but "we can work it out."
This all just brings "lonesome tears in my eyes" seeing the hate. Let's just start a love in, "I wanna hold your hand" and remove those dark clouds of despair. I want to "hippy hippy shake" you and say DON'T FRET "here comes the sun."
"It's a long and winding road" but if we "imagine" a world where we "come together," realizing you "can't buy me love" this "ticket to ride" will lead us to better times and "strawberry fields forever."
:D
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Re: WOW!
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Not Quite.
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Moot
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set creativity free!!!
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Lennon was talking about covers, not uncredited sampling or copying (derivations) - two completely different issues.
When I started out as a musician back in the early 90s, we covered mostly grunge bands until we learned enough about our instruments to try writing our own songs. Copyright had zero effect on that process as I remember. As it turns out, we didn't have the creative genius to write interesting music. That's a painful admission btw!
Whether or not you appreciate sampling as an art form is indeed subjective. As long as they properly credit the source material I have no issues with it.
A good example is M.I.A.'s "Paper Planes". 75% of the younger folks in the office had no idea that it was "Straight To Hell". I found that horribly insulting to the Clash!
I always hate the "all music is inspired by others" mantra. While that certainly is true for many artists, it does a real disservice to those artists (in any medium) out there today who are innovators and who are making conscious decisions to forge their own paths towards original art. Yes, it's much more difficult (with less commercial success as a prospect), but it's entirely possible.
It's the difference between Warhol and Picasso in my mind. Both artists have merit. Picasso is revered for his unique vision, whereas Warhol was more the technician. That's a rudimentary analogy admittedly. I love BOTH artists but I hold Picasso in higher stead.
I am always amazed and humbled by people who can create original art using their own imagination solely, eschewing outside influence as best they can(I can't). It's become such an anomaly that it shocks your senses.
There is artistic value in collages, samples and homages/tributes. It's just important to recognize innovation over derivation in my opinion and to reward and recognize the artists who either choose that very difficult road or are blessed with unique artistic talents (Picasso).
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You see quite a few attempts at blurring the lines between covers, samples, piracy, and consumptive copyright infringement around here. Hopefully, most people see it for the pathetic attempt at sleight-of-hand that it is.
I'm almost attempted to repeatedly quote this, so that maybe it will stick. And I play both sides of the fence, I sample and write original music. There is a world of difference between the two forms. And while I don't think one is "more musical" than the other, original works are definitely more important than derivative works; if for nothing else than the fact that I need original works to pull samples from. Original works conversely, don't need my sample-swiping ass to exist.
And ditto about "Paper Planes". I spin "Straight To Hell" at some of the bars I DJ for and I'm always amazed at the distinct separation between older, more punk-ish people who are pumped to hear a "deep" (relatively) Clash cut, and the younger neon-clad jitterers who think M.I.A. has just been dropped. (perish the thought!) Maybe I just enjoy pissing off M.I.A. fans.
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But first, define "elements".
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I'll present to you Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music and more apropos, Sonic Youth's The Silver Sessions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Machine_Music
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_S ession_for_Jason_Knuth
Seeing as how both of those albums were created without much literal human input, it's probably safe to say they couldn't have been "inspired" by anything else, in a musical sense. Operationally, maybe (but all that's similar is that the artists left instruments alone in a room). Even though The Silver Sessions follows the same mode of operation as MMM, I don't think you could honestly say one inspired the other. Mainly because you'd have to explain to me how amplifiers are conscious and somehow capable of being inspired.
Oh, also take a gander at John Cage's 4'33":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%2733%22
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John Lennon- fake
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