Danish Law Enforcement Would Like To Outlaw Anonymous Use Of The Internet

Free Speech

from the you-must-be-tracked dept

Wed, Jun 29th 2011 1:31pm — Mike Masnick

The Danish Ministry of Justice has put forth a proposal that would effectively make it much more difficult for anyone to use the internet anonymously. Specifically, if adopted, the plan would require that anyone offering open internet access to users would first have to confirm each user's identity, and then (of course!) record all sorts of info such as IP addresses, browser histories and records of who the user interacted with. That data then gets sent to the government... "to combat terrorism." Of course, what this means is that there's almost no way to be anonymous online. While it may be true that anonymity can (and at times, is) abused, it's going really far to suggest that there shouldn't be any anonymity. And giving the government that much info just screams out for it to be abused. We're definitely seeing more proposals like this... and, amusingly, any time we mention them, it seems that the "anonymous" commenters here are the ones who insist that such policies make sense...

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Filed Under: anonymity, denmark, internet

64 Comments

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Vincent Clement (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:39pm

Denmark allows you to block your Caller ID on a call-by-call basis. A little bit of hypocrisy.
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Anonymous, 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:41pm

Anonymous
The internet should be completely anonymous, yea I went there.
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jakerome (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:47pm

The Danish Ministry of Justice has put forth a proposal that would effectively make it much more difficult for anyone to use the internet ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H.
Fixed your typo.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:47pm

If you support anonymity your supporting international pedo-terrorists, apparently.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:48pm

Re:
argh you're I meant you're

damnit, now my reputation is in tatters.
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jakerome (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:48pm

Re:
Damn that needs to be more funny-- my typo joke isn't written coherently. I demand strikethrough html capability so I can be more funny with less effort.

Do I need to need to explain my joke?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:57pm

It isn't really difficult to see what is happening. Another little piece of the wild west shut off. So it begins, are you ready for it?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:58pm

Terrorism?
Ok, I'm an ignorant American who doesn't follow Danish events. How people per year are wounded or killed in Denmark from terror attacks?
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AG Wright (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 1:59pm

Information needed
But police,private investigators and crooked politicians all over the world need that kind of information to uh...
protect the children from pedophiles and the rest of us from terrorists.
Put that camera phone down and step away from the police vehicle too.
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ChimpBush McHitlerBurton, 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:06pm

Simple Solution:
...Just agree as a nation that no one should have internet anonymity. NO ONE. INCLUDING POLICE AND POLITICIANS.

...Then see how far the bill gets in their system.

CBMHB
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Dark Helmet (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:06pm

Re:
"So it begins, are you ready for it?"

Hell yeah, brah! I'm freaking AMPED for it. Are you....anonymous cowards?
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Someantimalwareguy, 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:07pm

Re:
So it begins, are you ready for it?
Perhaps, but it appears that you are not. Fess up AC - might as well get started now eh?
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Viking King Monitoring Inc, 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:12pm

Re: Re:
Cross referencing information with government database ... searching ... FOUND!

Yes Mario Gonzalez, your reputation has been damaged beyond repair. Your employer has been contacted and you will be terminated shortly. Expect the deportation officials to contact you within 48 hours. Have a nice day.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:16pm

Do we have the names of those who put through this proposal? I mean if they want to outlaw such a think we should know who these visionaries are.
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rubberpants (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:22pm

Re:
My irony detector just exploded. What a mess.
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Richard (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:22pm

Re:
are you ready for it?

Yeah - freenet and other similar service already exist - this will just catalyse more development and use of these systems.

Danish law enforcement are probably not in favour of this as it will just make their encrypted haystack bigger.
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Tore Vange, 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:25pm

Re: Terrorism?
Well, we did have one person wounded in an attack, but that was the terrorist. The bomb blew in his face when he tried to arm it.
I hear that the bathroom where he armed it was ruined, though...
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Richard (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re:
Note that the proposal originates from the Justice ministry - not from actual law enforcement operatives - the headlines in both areicles are marginally inconsistent with the text.
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Gwiz (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:30pm

Re:
Another little piece of the wild west shut off. So it begins, are you ready for it?

Yep, paid cash for some burn phones with wireless access point software.

Of course, I could always hack my local MickeyD's public WiFi key too if I wanted. Or piggyback on someone else legit connection at MickeyD's. And I always connect with a spoofed MAC address anyways, so, yeah I'm getting ready.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:44pm

Re: Re:
"Of course, I could always hack my local MickeyD's public WiFi key too if I wanted. Or piggyback on someone else legit connection at MickeyD's. And I always connect with a spoofed MAC address anyways, so, yeah I'm getting ready."

Ah, nimble hackers vs. beuracratic mess. Gee, I wonder who'll win?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 2:52pm

Re: Simple Solution:
But politicians and police need anonymity for uh freedom fighting those people who oppose them and have opinions that are different from what their own.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 3:04pm

But, but... the First Amendment... oh, oops. Never mind.
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cc (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 3:17pm

Those who really want anonymity will still have anonymity. The only ones who will lose their anonymity are the average technologically-oblivious citizens, who as always won't even know what's going on.

IMO, it will be an ID theft nightmare, as there'll be user IDs being traded on the black market from day one. Not to mention that encrypted proxies will still completely defeat these measures, making them completely useless against organized groups and individuals.

Really, this is as pointless as it is retarded and I can assure you it will never catch a single terrorist.
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BeeAitch (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 3:22pm

Re:
Yes, I am ready for it:

-TOR, check
-VPN, check
-I2P, check
-proxies, check
-linksys router with DD-WRT firmware (that I can OC to get a four-city-block radius of coverage), check

Bring it on, you butthurt, oppressive, delusional, ANONYMOUS (delicious irony, isn't it?) Coward.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 3:28pm

The Danish justice minister needs a bullet to the head.

Try saying that with a signature and address attached.
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BeeAitch (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 3:28pm

Re:
This, exactly.

It doesn't worry me personally if some (any) country wants to outlaw anonymity: I will work around it easily enough.

It is the direction these oppressive laws are taking the world at large that scares the piss out of me.
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William Coxe, 29 Jun 2011 @ 3:54pm

Sorry to see this.
It makes me think that it is something that the Nazi party would have done. Sigh, things have really changed around the world.
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el_segfaulto (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 4:02pm

Re: Re:
I could really see like-minded people (I LOVE dd-wrt!) creating a darknet to bypass these idiotic new laws. And if big business thinks security geeks like us (I'm lumping in a number of other posters here) are trouble, they're going to have a whole lot of pain controlling the next generation. I plan on raising an entire brood of hackers if/when the time comes.
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Greg G (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 4:12pm

record all sorts of info such as IP addresses, browser histories and records of who the user interacted with.

This gives new emphasis on the L in ASL in chat rooms/IRC. If that L comes back as Denmark, and to be safe, any neighboring country (Sweden, Norway, Germany...) then I will refuse to talk to you, unless maybe you're on the Swedish Bikini Team. I might make that an exception.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 4:37pm

Re: Re:
damnit, now my reputation is in tatters.

Posting as Anonymous Coward, your reputation is already in tatters.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2011 @ 7:20pm

Just great. The US already has police kicking down the doors of random houses "to combat terrorism". Now other countries are starting to pull the same routine?

Well, it'll definitely cut down on terror attacks. Why bother, when every government on the planet is doing your work for you?
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BeeAitch (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 7:52pm

Re: Re: Re:
My 14-year-old daughter can about out-hack me now. These rubes have no idea the hornet's nest they've stuck their dicks into. This is gonna be sooo fun to watch!
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 7:55pm

Re: Re: Terrorism?
So this is the "But think of the toilets" law?
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Gwiz (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 8:03pm

Re: Re: Re:
Ah, nimble hackers vs. beuracratic mess. Gee, I wonder who'll win?

And I wouldn't even consider myself a nimble hacker, just a guy with 30 years of computer knowledge (really loved that cassette tape data storage on that TRS-80), a deep sense of curiosity and bit of common sense.
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bIrqul (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 11:08pm

Denmark's pols seem to be losing their collective minds.
This proposal disturbs me for a few reasons: Some of us use pseudonyms or resort to anonymity to lessen the repercussions of having someone who finds our opinions or ideas offensive. Whether it is a governmental agency or, as we have here in Utah, ordinary citizens who will proverbially "move Heaven and Earth" to find you if they don't like what you said. I speak from the expensive experience of a brick with a copy of The Book of Mormon (the openig salvo of several months of harrassment) thrown through my front window because I stupidly sent a letter to the Salt Lake Tribune in 2008 criticizing the LDS church's spending over two million dollars in California campaigning for Proposition 8 (if you've been in a cave studying and/or finding a way to preserve Neolithic wall paintngs for future generations, it was the one repealing the rights of gays to marry) when there were actually worthy uses of that much money here in the state. There were food banks facing the posibity of having to shut down because they couldn't get enough donations to remain open, and two voulunteer-run "Meals on Wheels"-type programs that would have to cut their deliveries to twice a week insted of the three-to-five (depending on the recipient's ablity to afford and prepare meals and care for other needs. Assisting local community groups in avoiding starving-out grandma and grandpa is, to me, a more donaton-worthy cause than something going on in California.
Because of my letter, some annoyed and diligent individual(s) hunted me down by my former name (the situation eventually became so bad that my husband and I had to legally change our names, get a court order to delete our e-mail accounts [our former internet provider was quite adamant that we keep them], and finally move to stop the vandalism, threatening telephone calls, e-mails, and despite the post office's best efforts, snail mail threats [can anyone say "fedeal offense to send threats via mail."? I KNEW this crowd probably could], before it finally ended.
I'm willing to bet my life this wasn't the work of the so-called "Mormon Mafia" - read "Unarmed Mall Cops who request certain people or groups get off church-owned property", just one dedicated fanatic and their friends/followers. We aren't the only people who've had, shall I say "people of dissenting opinions"? Spend time, gasoline, stamps, and other resourrces (in one far more disturbing case, ammo) to express their anger at someone's opnion. As the Trib will not publish letters that are obviously "hate speech" or use racist, sexist, or other forms of abuse, I'm prety sure my suggestion that anyone or any group with "extra money" to donate for a cause start by looking at UTAH's needs first wasn't some semicoherent anti-LDS rant.
Yet my inablity to save a lot of time and money on a new front window, replacing rosebushes, fruit trees, and re-seeding the lawn from someone doing donuts on it in a maroon mini van simply because anyone can call the local papers and find out who submitted the "Name Withheld by Request" letter that's stirred their ire.
I believe Denmark's proposal could lead to anything from random digruntled maniacs like we had, to someone finding a former lover and killing them for leaving, to the worst-case-scenario of political dissenters suddenly either disappearing or having fatal accidnts. The press could be severely curailed in their reportage of any facts that don't "toe the company line" that they're being allowed to report...
For some reason I cannot find, my mind keeps flashing bsck to a horrific event caught on a cell phone and sent out of Iran, quick before all outside internet and cellular communications were shut off by a government grown too powerful via measures slowly taken that eventually landed the people under the rule of a megalomaniac and his "religious leader" friend.
She was a music student, participating in a peaceful protest against her country's rigged election. Her name was Neda Agha-Soltan, and the surprised look on her face as she died is haunting. I don't want to see Denmark's citizens allow themselves to be pursuaded by fear that they end up living out a similar nightmare.
A chilling reminder of how even the smallest things, lost for whatever reason, can come back and bite you in the ass.
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Hephaestus (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 11:17pm

Re: Re:
It really is going to be fun when there is no anonymous commenting. You will always know who the people trying the troll or shill game are. You will always be able to track them back to their home addresses. There will be no way for them to sock puppet blogs. I can't wait!! I mean Image their IPv6 addresses posted next to their screen name!!

Speaking of which I own a double edged sword.
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Hephaestus (profile), 29 Jun 2011 @ 11:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
What a mess this is going to make of the internet. People with "a deep sense of curiosity and bit of common sense" are people with enough knowledge to be dangerous.
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come on, 30 Jun 2011 @ 12:24am

Re:
Yeah, hide it from the callee, not the police, I suppose ..
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2011 @ 12:56am

Re: Re: Re:
Posting as Anonymous Coward, your reputation is already in tatters.

Heh, says one anonymous commenter to another. That's funny.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2011 @ 1:00am

Re:
It isn't really difficult to see what is happening. Another little piece of the wild west shut off. So it begins, are you ready for it?

It isn't really difficult to see what is happening. Another little piece of freedom shut off. So it begins, are you ready for it?

There, fixed it for you. And ready to fight is what I'm ready for.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2011 @ 1:04am

Re: Sorry to see this.
It makes me think that it is something that the Nazi party would have done. Sigh, things have really changed around the world.

The Nazi's didn't really go away, they just fanned out to other countries.
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Q�r Tharkasd�ttir (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 1:29am

Re: Iran
Pardon me, but the "Neda episode" doesn't have much to do with all this. It has been proven (look around the net) to be a setup.
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Q�r Tharkasd�ttir (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 1:39am

Re: Denmark's pols seem to be losing their collective minds.
And: Denmark's citizens allow this to happen to them, not so much out of of fear than because the vast majority of them don't give a fuck, just as they can't be bothered when their elected representatives, ranging from extreme right to extreme left, overwhelmingly support enacting an anti-emigrant (read: anti-Muslim) agenda. In many respects, today's Denmark embodies a model of the future "they" want for the rest of the world.
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Q�r Tharkasd�ttir (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 1:42am

Re: Re: Terrorism?
He probably was a patsy, chosen for his mental track record.
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Q�r Tharkasd�ttir (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 1:53am

Starting? Welcome to the World (intro)
FYI. The UK is often seen as the US's poodle (and we may discuss how many poodles the US has��or what kind of kennel the US actually IS). Well, take the image one step further, and look at Denmark as being the parasite worm in the poodle's guts.
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Prisoner 201, 30 Jun 2011 @ 1:58am

Re: Re: Re:
Ohhh... time to look into a bulk purchase of aluminum bats.

Unintended effect: The Wild West is back. Now lets string up some trolls.
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Prisoner 201, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the Sharp MZ800 you had to first load the tape with the operating system, then you could put in the tape with the actual software you wanted to run.

But hey, it had a built in plotter. You just dont get that level of awesome any more.

And yeah, it will be even easier to get away with stuff if the authorities know for a fact that Mr. Smith was using the internet (since he signed in, identified himself etc). No need to look for Mr. 201.
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Senile 201 year old, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nooooo, I'm getting senile, its the MZ-700 I am thinking of.
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explicit coward (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 3:29am

Re: Re: Iran
It has been proven (look around the net) to be a setup.

? Looked around the net, couldn't find any such proof - unless you take the iranian authorities word at face value...
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Niall (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 5:18am

Re: Terrorism?
Ok, I'm a not-so-ignorant Brit who does bother to look out of his own backyard. How many people a year are wounded or killed IN AMERICA from terror attacks?

Or to put it another way: How many people a year have their basic freedoms and rights trampled on in America?

If you want to stop terrorism, go after the lunatic fringe of groups like PETA and 'pro'-lifers with even a fraction of the enthusiasm wasted on airlines and warrantless wiretapping.

I think you'll find that Denmark is a much safer place all around...
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Niall (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 5:20am

Re: Re: Sorry to see this.
They didn't really fan out, they were there already.
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ComputerAddict (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 6:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
notice the "(Profile)" link next to his name... hes a registered user... while he hasn't uploaded an avatar (like myself). We are not "anonymous".
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Q�r Tharkasd�ttir (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 8:03am

Whose propaganda is the best
�
"unless you take the iranian authorities word at face value..."

No, I don't, but IMO, Western media and politicians and their propaganda rate much, much lower on a scale of trustworthiness. I can't do the research for you, but here are some places to start from:

http://blogghete.blog.dada.net/post/1207099806/NEDA%3A+UN+FALSO+PACCHIANO
(deconstruction, note that it's in Italian)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shp7HE2YA_c&skipcontrinter=1

http://edition.cnn.co m/2009/WORLD/meast/06/25/iran.ambassador/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-5121532-503543.h tml

as well as: http://www.voltairenet.org/The-CIA-and-the-Iranian-experiment

I have reason to suspect, and the Western media's targeted hype will not lead me to believe anything different, that the episode hardly distinguishes itself from the incubator babies murdered in Kuwait, Amina Abdallah aka. Tom MacMaster, the preposterous stories currently propagated about Libya and Syria, or even those statements by Iran's president that (according to those who understand farsi) were falsely translated by Reuters but have never stopped circulating ever since. To name just a few.

But, if I may repeat myself, I don't think this is the proper venue to discuss the Neda episode.
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PrometheeFeu (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 8:52am

Re: Re: Terrorism?
Actually, the primary source of terrorism in the US is white-supremacy/crazy-far-right groups. They are the kind of people who make Glenn Beck look like a Marxist.

Honestly, for the most part PETA is doing mostly breaking and entering stupid stuff where they "free" a whole bunch of animals "in the wild." For the most part it is really incompetent stuff. I have a friend who does research on flies and one day when the PETA people couldn't find the monkeys to release, they released thousands upon thousands of flies in her lab. Threw away years of research so the flies could have a couple days of freedom before they died of natural causes. Calling them terrorists is a bit excessive. As for the pro-lifers, you are talking about a very small minority of them and again, they do about as much terrorism as Islamic terrorists. Not a lot.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2011 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Iran
? Looked around the net, couldn't find any such proof - unless you take the iranian authorities word at face value...

What? You would question authority? You're just the kind of person this law would target. Bad anonymous!
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iBelieve, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:02pm

Re: Re:
What joke? Did I miss something funny?
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Anonymous Hero, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:06pm

Re: Re: Re:
You are the president of.. Mars? Sock puppet blogs.. funny!
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Anonymous Giant, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:10pm

Re: Re:
Exactly, also while raking in some anonymous $$ from their newly formed alliances..
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Anonymous Dog, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
so asscrackers anonymous makes the very word anonymous a bad thing for everyone, anonymously.. go figure.
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Anonymous Elf Tracker, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ooo, and speaking of, mmm, hornets' nests, love 'em, mmmm tongues in it too, mmmmm ouch, ooo.. oh mmm >:-D
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Anonymous King, 30 Jun 2011 @ 2:42pm

Re: Re: Terrorism?
The first thing I do decree as King is that the name 'terrorist' as it relates to assholes blowing up people and themselves will be changed to 'poof-dribble mutts' now you see 'em, now you don't..
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Jesse (profile), 30 Jun 2011 @ 6:02pm

"We're definitely seeing more proposals like this... and, amusingly, any time we mention them, it seems that the "anonymous" commenters here are the ones who insist that such policies make sense..."

LULZ
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Terrorism?
But they don't demonize and profile and detain thousands and millions of pro-lifers because of a few pro-lifers with bombs. In contrast to the treatment of Muslims.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:22pm

Re: Re:
After anonymity is criminalized, harsh measures against the use of certain software will seem acceptable.
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