Wikileaks Can Receive Visa & Mastercard Donations Again... But Visa Doesn't Understand Why

from the for-the-lulz? dept

Thu, Jul 7th 2011 10:06pm — Mike Masnick

Last week, Wikileaks and Datacell threatened to sue Mastercard, Visa and Paypal if it didn't stop blocking payments to Wikileaks. The claims were basically collusion charges, in that all of the major payment companies were blocking payments. Things got strange today, however, when suddenly Datacell announced that payments worked again, and clearly implied that the companies had lifted the blockade. Except, Visa is insisting that it has not lifted its ban on Wikileaks and has no idea how payments are getting through. The details seem a bit sketchy. Some careful wording by Datacell's CEO suggest that he really just found an alternative payment gateway provider, which likely means this is a very temporary loophole, before the payment companies block again.

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Filed Under: antitrust, collusion, europe, wikileaks
Companies: datacell, mastercard, paypal, visa, wikileaks

36 Comments

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TechnoMage (profile), 7 Jul 2011 @ 10:38pm

wouldn't be that hard to find out for Visa
Just charge 123.45$ from a marked account and see what gateway provider the charge goes through...
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Aerilus, 7 Jul 2011 @ 10:49pm

more confirmation that censorship will just be routed around
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The eejit (profile), 7 Jul 2011 @ 10:56pm

Even so, if they have found another one and Visa block it, this would confirm that, indeed, they are trying to eliminate a provider fo services.

This opens them up to the possibility of losing their accreditation from the EU.
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- E. Zachary Knight (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 6:38am
  
  Re:
  We don't need to do that. Visa has already said they are targeting wikileaks. A public statement of that intent is all they need.
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Hephaestus (profile), 7 Jul 2011 @ 11:44pm

The internet routes around obstructions ...
For a while it has been evident that it is not the internet routing around obstructions, but people wishing to be heard. It is in every governments interest to stop this uncontrolled want and need to be heard. The first amendment and freedom of speech are fine when the only people that hear you talking are your friends and neighbors. But when anyone can gain a global audience and cause a revolt. When a small group of people can rally an entire country to a cause. When one misdeed can cause the failure of a government. It is time for them to take the wild west of free speech that is the internet and squash it. We are beginning to see this world wide.

One simple problem though, a couple thousand people, trying to stop two billion people from connecting, discussing, and complaining about things.

I wonder how this is going to work out.
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- Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2011 @ 12:08am
  
  Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
  It's not a problem when those thousand are the ones in power, and have the corrupt officials in their pocket *cough* USA *cough*.
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- freak (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 5:07am
  
  Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
  Errr . . . you don't have it quite right.
  
  The quote came up in the first place because people, finding information they did not have access to, or was alluded to but deleted, found ways to find that information again.
  
  It wasn't people wanting to be heard, it was people curious about what they weren't allowed to know. The internet scene was 'mildly' different at the time, and since the effort required to spread such info where it might want to be known is much, much less now, (if you have a single bot, it's practically zero . . .), it's much less evident that this is being done today.
  
  Back then, to get info out, you would go to a courier service. A group of people who would stay up all night, logging onto different BBS's, spreading the word.
  
  But before that, you might get the info by undeleting a comment remotely through BBS software, by seeing it earlier and saving a copy, by going to a lot of BBS's and asking if anyone had done exactly that, by cracking the OP's password, logging in as him and seeing the message that was removed, asking the OP what had been deleted, (maybe offering him something in return), etc. etc.
  
  But before that, you spent hours logging onto and reading BBS's in the first place.
  
  Now that we can do all this in, at worst, a few minutes with the click of a button, and there are so many people out there viewing each page, and that there are so many tools out there which save pages, it is absolutely impossible to get rid of juicy information on the internet unless everyone agrees to get rid of it. And even then, you have to find every copy . . . so getting rid of it on the internet means it probably still exists on a few hard drives out there.
  
  Of course, finding information to look at is still the hardest part, as with back then, because we have much more to filer through now, even if our internet connections are 20,000-1,000,000 times faster.
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  - freak (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 5:10am
    
    Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
    TL;DR:
    The quote refers not to the tendency of people wanting to be heard, but the tenancy of people wanting to hear and share info they come across.
    
    Do you think more circumvention of China's censorship happens on pages trying to reach chinese readers, or Chinese people trying to reach pages they aren't allowed to?
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- opticron, 8 Jul 2011 @ 5:13am
  
  Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
  Obvious troll is obvious. If you really believe that first paragraph, you have my pity.
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  - Hephaestus (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 7:51am
    
    Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
    Wow .... this is cool it's the first time I have been accused of being a troll.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2011 @ 9:52am
      
      Re: Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
      I'm a meta-troll. I'm here to troll you about your trolling.
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      - Hephaestus (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 7:50pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
        And I am going all recursive Meta-Meta Troll on your trolling ;)
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    - monkyyy, 8 Jul 2011 @ 5:18pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
      really? u seem like u'd be one of their fav targets
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      - Hephaestus (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 8:05pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
        It seems like they really don't like me pointing out they are doomed and have no future. I thik it is my belief that all content is headed towards free for the consumer. That seems to make them fearful of trolling me.
        
        I am actually waiting for one of them to haze me. I want to point out how the great year they have had, is because of the release of some of their back catalog (Beatles, etc) and a statistical glitch in lady gaga and one other performer. With the rest of the trends continuing as they did before.
        
        I still stand by my estimate of two-four years before the record labels fail.
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- Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2011 @ 6:29am
  
  Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
  Really? Maybe you need to move to another country. How about Iran? Sounds like a good fit for you.
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  - Hephaestus (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 7:57am
    
    Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
    Please re-read the last two lines ...
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    - Hothmonster, 8 Jul 2011 @ 8:29am
      
      Re: Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
      i'm impressed either of them made it through the first paragraph
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      - Hephaestus (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 9:27am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: The internet routes around obstructions ...
        Same here ... I was going for the view-perspective from the control freak side of the isle, and pointing out how it wouldn't work.
        
        With this giant push towards totalitarianism, they simply can't come to terms with the facts that these powerful groups have lost control for the first time in human history.
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Michael Lockyear, 8 Jul 2011 @ 12:03am

Both VISA and MASTERCARD have both had to pay out billions of dollars in anti-trust cases in the past...they should tread carefully. Maybe time time to start pushing for their break-up?
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- The eejit (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 2:50am
  
  Re:
  Perhaps, but then we have the same issue as with DNS: the fragmentation of acceptable payment methods.
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  - ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 9:17am
    
    Re: Re:
    I think the current situation shows why that's needed.
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BuzzCoastin (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 2:28am

BitCoins Can't be Blocked
Bit Coins can't be blocked & can't be traced. Take that Big MFin' Payment companies.

Right now using Bitcoins is a push-up; in 6 months it will easy enough for any N00b to use.
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freak (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 5:11am

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218263/Visa_blocks_WikiLeaks_donations_via_DataCell_once_aga in

And while I was typing that last comment . ..
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- Jeremy7600 (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 10:09am
  
  Re:
  Yep, closed.
  
  http://www.datacell.com/news/2011-07-08/visa_closes_down_again/
  
  Tried to donate this afternoon and the payment was not processed.
  
  Who the fuck is Visa/Mastercard to tell ME who I can give MY money to?
  
  They are effectively dictating where I can spend my money and that fucking pisses me off.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2011 @ 5:17am

So a credit card company can be forced into a relationship with a business?
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- Joe Dirt, 8 Jul 2011 @ 5:34am
  
  Re:
  Not really the point. DataCell and Wikileaks claim that they (Mastercard, Visa, and Paypal) all colluded to restrict payments, which is illegal, hence the reason for the suit
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- Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2011 @ 8:39am
  
  Re:
  So a credit card company can be forced into a relationship with a business?
  
  Kind of like how a restaurant can be forced to serve minorities.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2011 @ 11:01am
    
    Re: Re:
    I think that's wrong. If upstanding white business owners don't want to serve food to blacks, mexicans, jewish people, asians, or...well anyone then they shouldn't have to. I'd much rather eat at an all white establishment.
    
    It's really too bad they'd have to kick me out to have that though :(
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- dwg, 8 Jul 2011 @ 8:46am
  
  Re:
  Um....yeah. Credit card = public accommodation, despite its one single wish here to the contrary.
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- el_segfaulto (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 8:50am
  
  Re:
  Yes they should. If they want the same treatment as banks, then they cannot discriminate who they do business with.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2011 @ 7:40am

All they did was find an IPSP that was willing to process for them, and likely didn't mention that it's processing for Wikileaks.

It will be funny as hell if Datacell or Wikileaks gets into legal trouble if their application wasn't 100% honest.
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- The eejit (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 9:14am
  
  Re:
  Um, it's just Datacell in the suit.
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- BeeAitch (profile), 8 Jul 2011 @ 10:56am
  
  Re:
  ...but not nearly as funny as if Visa, MC, PayPal get slapped with an antitrust suit.
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aikiwolfie (profile), 10 Jul 2011 @ 12:08pm

This story reminded me of something that was touched on in a documentary I saw. I think it was Zeitgeist or some such. Anyway it was stated that the goal of the "real world leaders" was to have everybody fitted with an RFID chip. We would then all access our money or credit through that chip alone. If someone caused a problem by speaking out? Their chip would be turned off and they would be left penniless.

What's happening here is too far from that imagined goal.
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BlackCardMike, 26 Oct 2011 @ 9:08am

The record companies are fighting, but they're standing on one leg to do it and the ground is shifting beneath their feet. They need to look at alternative models, 'cuz the current one aint workin'
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Cybertron rules, 22 Apr 2012 @ 1:43pm

Visa calm down
Great; a credit-card company of all people tries to take a higher moral/legal ground. How laughable of Visa. They hire mathematicians to figure out the best way to screw us, but oh they're so much higher and mightier than Assange's outfit.
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