Is Your Senator Using The Distraction Of The Debt Ceiling To Support The Feds Secret Interpretation Of Spying Laws?

Legal Issues

from the sneaky-sneaky dept

Thu, Jul 28th 2011 11:53am — Mike Masnick

We were just reporting on how Director of National Intelligence James Clapper was tap dancing around some specific questions about how much warrantless spying on Americans US federal intelligence agencies do. Much of that discussion revolved around the controversial FISA Amendments Act (recursively called the FAA) of 2008, which you may recall as the law that both made warrantless wiretapping officially legal (despite the fact that the federal government had been doing it for years under a very questionable legal theory) and granted telecom companies retroactive immunity for having helped the feds get such wiretaps despite the lack of warrants (and, in some cases, nothing more than a post-it note asking for it).

The FAA is set to expire in 2012, but, as we've seen with any law that grants the federal government more power to spy on Americans without oversight, there is no way the folks in power want to give up such things. Now come reports that, while most of Congress is focused on that whole debt ceiling thing, some have decided this is the perfect cover to quickly and secretly re-up the FAA. It's been reported that the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence is likely meeting behind closed doors today in an effort (by some) to re-up the FAA now, before anyone even realizes it's being debated. The last thing they want is pesky civil libertarians to re-start the discussion about the general constitutionality of spying on Americans without a warrant (believing in the 4th Amendment is sooooo old fashioned).

In trying to hunt down more details about what's going on, we found out that Senators Wyden and Udall -- who, as we've been discussing, have been trying to stop the federal government from secretly interpreting these laws in ways that seem contrary to what most believe the laws say -- are trying to add an amendment to this attempt to reauthorize the FAA. It's difficult to see how anyone can, in good conscience, vote against this. It includes such basic truths as:

In democratic societies, citizens rightly expect that their government will not arbitrarily keep information secret from the public but instead will act with secrecy only in certain limited circumstances.

The amendment specifically says that the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence would need to explain "the problems posed by the reliance of government agencies and departments on interpretations of domestic surveillance authorities that are inconsistent with the understanding of such authorities by the public."

Who could possibly vote against that?

Well, tragically, since this supposed meeting is "closed" (though not classified), the Senators get to hide from view for a while. It's one of those arcane Senate rules that are all too often used to allow Senators to avoid public scrutiny for their actions. While no members of the public or press are allowed in the room, and those in the room cannot tell what anyone else says (or votes) in the room... since it's not classified the Senators who are in the room can absolutely say what they said or did in the room. The specific votes on this particular amendment will be made public three weeks after the markup occurs, buying anyone voting against it three weeks of cover (and when the votes come out, they can pretend this is "old news"). The amendment itself is not secret or classified. Senators cannot reasonably claim that they can't say how they voted for "national security" reasons (a popular cop out) because their votes are going to be made public. The only reason to not answer the question of how they voted is because they want to avoid scrutiny.

So... if your Senator happens to be on the Senate Intelligence Committee now would be the time to call, email, tweet, fax, carrier pigeon, etc. to ask them whether they voted to let Americans know how the government is secretly interpreting its own laws... or if they voted against your basic fundamental rights to know how the government interprets its own laws. The list of Senators on the Committee are as follows:

Dianne Feinstein, California (chair)
Saxby Chambliss, Georgia (vice chair)
John D. Rockefeller IV, West Virginia
Olympia J. Snowe, Maine
Ron Wyden, Oregon
Richard Burr, North Carolina
Barbara A. Mikulski, Maryland
James Risch, Idaho
Bill Nelson, Florida
Daniel Coats, Indiana
Kent Conrad, North Dakota
Roy Blunt, Missouri
Mark Udall, Colorado
Marco Rubio, Florida
Mark Warner, Virginia

If any of these Senators represent you, please reach out to them as soon as possible to ask them how they voted on the amendment embedded below, and please report back to us with what you hear. Let's not let certain Senators allow the government to make up its own rules and not tell the American public what those rules are.

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Filed Under: fisa, geolocation, james clapper, mark udall, patriot act, privacy, ron wyden, secrecy, senate

40 Comments

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Designerfx (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:00pm

feinstein being chair = why we have problems
feinstein is one of the most anti-constitution folks being involved in this whole matter.
http://www.zimbio.com/Senator+Dianne+Feinstein+of+California/articles/23/Nice+knowing+you+4 th+Amendment
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:03pm

It's amazing to think that senators are actually capable of doing more than one thing at a time. It's shocking really.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:05pm

Whoa
Careful Mike, you're starting to sound like some conspiracy nut.

Regardless of how true something is, expressing certain ideas always makes one sound like a "conspiracy nut" which is a brilliant way to make sure anybody presenting the truth is disregarded as crazy...

Anyhow, be careful.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:12pm

Re: Whoa
my tin foil hat tingled
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Whoa
I am bullish tin foil
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out_of_the_blue, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:15pm

"If any of these Senators represent you..."
HA! What a 20th century concept; they represent only corporations.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:15pm

Jerk!
"So... if your Senator happens to be on the Senate Intelligence Committee now would be the time to call, email, tweet, fax, carrier pigeon, etc. to ask them whether they voted to let Americans know how the government is secretly interpreting its own laws"

Oh, sure. Let's just go harrassing our elected officials. On behalf of the chamber of nothing, I request you redact this section of your post with sparkly sprinkles and unicorns, as it unduly requests the harrassment of our private public officials, who don't want to hear from us and have no reason to listen to us.

For shame, sir. For shame....
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Mike Masnick (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:16pm

Re: Whoa
Careful Mike, you're starting to sound like some conspiracy nut.

Hmm. Really? I'm not sensing any sort of "conspiracy" at all. I just see Senators continuing to do what they've done in the past, which is pass legislation that expands the power of the federal government at the expense of the people they supposedly represent.

I think my post is pretty clear and well documented. There's nothing "conspiratorial" about it. I'm just explaining what's going on.
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Ninja (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:16pm

Re: Whoa
Actually, you can get the person arrested with light rape claims and get them discredited because of the children (wtf?).

I foresee Mike involved in some light murder charge all out of the blue, being imprisoned at home for 6 months or more. Ah, at least he won't be extradited to Sweden.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Whoa
The pattern you've noticed is richly repeated in dozens of places everyday thru the military/media/industrial/government conglomerate.

Look and you'll see a complex weave of interplay which all appears to take place to distract people from everything important, making sure most people never realize what's really going on.

Or at least that's what my "conspiracy nut" friends tell me--you know how they are!

;-P
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re: Whoa
I, for one, would LOVE to be extradited to Sweden.

Sadly, never been to Sweden so the scenario is pretty unlikely.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Whoa
I don't think he is saying it's conspiratorial at all, just that you risk being accused of being a conspiracy nut...

Otherwise, right on.
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New Mexico Mark, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Whoa
> Sadly, never been to Sweden

As if THAT's a credible alibi...
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Ninja (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Whoa
Easy, light rape some Swedish girl and don't put much of a fight. Don't forget to leak some US cables first!
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rubberpants, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:33pm

Re: "If any of these Senators represent you..."
Now, that's just not fair. There are some billionaires they represent as well.
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Beta (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:43pm

how not to take the bait
[The Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence must] explain "the problems posed by the reliance of government agencies and departments on interpretations of domestic surveillance authorities that are inconsistent with the understanding of such authorities by the public."

Who could possibly vote against that?

I actually have a problem with giving undue recognition to this "interpretation" talk. As I recall, Bush Jr. was the one who first signed something into law while saying sotto voce "...we might interpret this a certain way...", and the response was all a power-hungry president could wish: "What? Wait, what's your interpretation? You have to tell us your interpretation. Please?..."

In my opinion the best response would have been from a judge or two (sotto voce): "In my court it's my interpretation of the law that counts, not the defendant's."
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PRMan, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:43pm

Re: "If any of these Senators represent you..."
Feinstein has never represented me. Unfortunately, I live in a state where the sheep vote for their party no matter how bad she's been for 20 years...
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HothMonster, 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:47pm

Re: Re: Whoa
is the opposite of light rape? heavy rape, dark rape or thick rape?

im pretty sure rape is rape, if its less then rape than its sexual assault
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Overcast (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:51pm

No Surprise... Typical DC smoke and mirrors.
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gorehound (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 12:58pm

No surprise at all.Until we the public get rid of both Republicans and Democrats we will all live in a world of poop.
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Prisoner 201, 28 Jul 2011 @ 1:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Whoa
In sweden, if the girl changes her mind a week later when she finds out the guy slept with her friend without telling her, its rape.

If I ever do one night stands again, I will ask the girl to sign a consent form first. And I'm not kidding.
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Nanette, 28 Jul 2011 @ 1:07pm

Just called Sen. Bill Nelson's office. Was told that the bill is still in the House Comm. and has not yet come to the Senate Comm.
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HothMonster, 28 Jul 2011 @ 1:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Whoa
how about just some fine print tattooed onto your junk?

"By looking at this penis you consent to sexual interaction with this penis. You do fully consent to oral and vaginal penetration as well as..."

then you just have to take a picture of her looking at your junk
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ltlw0lf (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 1:17pm

Re: feinstein being chair = why we have problems
feinstein is one of the most anti-constitution folks being involved in this whole matter.

Yeah, I was just thinking that myself. A lot of good it will be to send an email to Herr Feinstein. Talk about clueless...she only knows what Disney tells her to know. I remember sending her a letter about DMCA, and how stupid and abused it will eventually be, and I got a letter back telling me that it was absolutely necessary to keep the businesses of the constituents in her state in business, and that there were plenty of things in the bill to reduce or eliminate all of my concerns. It was obviously a form letter, but it was also pretty obvious that a lot of people already wrote her with these concerns and she pretty much handwaived over the concerns without addressing any of them. And now, the DMCA is here, it is being abused and nothing in the DMCA reduces or eliminates those concerns we had.

At that point, I realized that Herr Feinstein doesn't care about people, and only cares about the money the few companies she caters to give her. I've voted against her every time, but someone here keeps electing her back in office.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 1:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whoa
This could potentially work equally well during lonely nights at your local airport....
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maclizard (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 1:49pm

Letter template to send to your senator
Dear Senator [SENATOR'S LAST NAME],

I noticed that while our country is sliding closer to default, the Senate Intelligence Committee took the time to meet about, and vote on, an amendment to the PATRIOT Act that would extend the Federal Governments unnecessary ability to continue warrantless wiretapping practices.

I personally do not believe that spying on U.S. citizens provides any additional protection from harm and as a matter of fact I believe it does the exact opposite.

I understand that this vote has already taken place and for that reason this letter cannot change or affect the outcome in any way, however I would like to know how you voted? Were you a 'yay' or a 'nay'?

I understand that you are a busy man, and as a whole I greatly respect the many things you have done for [REPRESENTED STATE], however I do need an answer to this letter quickly. If I have not received a reply stating what your vote was (yay or nay) by August 1st I will have to continue my current path with the assumption that your vote was 'yay' and the question I posed is not being answered to avoid public scrutiny.

I am not a fan of providing others with misinformation, but I will provide my stated assumption if I cannot obtain an answer soon, and if my assumption is wrong I will correct it as soon as it can be proven. Thank you for your time, God Bless.

[YOUR NAME]
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 2:14pm

Re: Letter template to send to your senator
Dear Senator:

Here is a check for $_____.00
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 2:57pm

I live in Florida, so YES, my senator is crooked, married to the big business special interests, and giving a great big middle finger to the actual citizens of the state. Can someone PLEASE help teach Florida what "democracy" means?
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Eponymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 3:26pm

Feinstein
No need to write Feinstein. As chair of the committee, the extension never would have come to a vote without her approval.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 3:39pm

Re:
Your statement assumes that they are actually working on the debt ceiling problem.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 3:41pm

Re:
PLEASE help teach Florida what "democracy" means?

A representative democracy means that the elected representatives need to communicate with the electorate in order to gain and hold office. In the late 20th and early 21st century, that means the politicians need money --lots and lots of money-- in order to buy TV airtime and get their message out. No money, no votes, no office.

Since the politicians really can't talk to voters without spending money, it follows that citizens really can't talk to legislators without spending money.

That's the state of representative democracy in our republic today. I think most people in Florida already understand that pretty well.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 3:48pm

Re:
Have to teach you guys how to punch a hole through a piece of paper first
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jul 2011 @ 5:04pm

back to the Future
If you ever knew, the FISA laws were enacted because our government never stopped spying on us after WWII. Our "intelligence community" (there's a hoot) got caught spying on MLK, the civil rights activists and anyone else they felt like keeping tabs on, in the '60s. Congress enacted FISA and created a "special" court to adjudicate the lawfulness of domestic surveillance activities which the Bush league Congress stripped of its so-called power, when it was deemed to be too burdensome. (OMG! We have to fill out paperwork!?)

Do you really think this rider amounts to anything more than a pimple on the ass of democracy? What is this "public's understanding" of which Mr. Udall speaks?
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TDR, 28 Jul 2011 @ 7:11pm

Frankenstein... er, Feinstein: Are you with me, yea or nay?
Leahy: Which one means yes?
Feinstein (rolls eyes): Yea...
Senators: Yea!
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cj7wilson (profile), 28 Jul 2011 @ 9:34pm

too much work
So... if your Senator happens to be on the Senate Intelligence Committee now would be the time to call, email, tweet, fax, carrier pigeon, etc...

Seeing as how we're regulars on TechDirt and all, wouldn't it be easier to lodge our complaints by just talking into the nearest smoke alarm or light fixture?
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jon doe, 29 Jul 2011 @ 12:13am

And people say R is on the side of big business...
This is just a "dems are bad, republicans are good" statement. Stuff like this just goes to show how similar both parties really are. We really just have a 1 party system with a false presentation of 2. The media is just as at fault because anytime any non-repub/dem might gain some traction, they can just not cover them, thus shutting them out. Back when Perot was running he had to fight his way tooth and nail to even get on the debates..
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Designerfx (profile), 29 Jul 2011 @ 8:11am

Re: And people say R is on the side of big business...
perot was also completely insane, and this is just a bad person. It doesn't matter if she's a dem or a republican, the worse part is she's in a position of authority.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jul 2011 @ 9:39am

Well... you KNOW it's just to keep us all safe, right?

And when I say safe what I actually mean is...

Surrender All Freedoms Everyone! ;)
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It's ME, 29 Jul 2011 @ 5:14pm

Re: Re: feinstein being chair = why we have problems
Frau Feinstein. Herr is masculine.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jul 2011 @ 5:32pm

Just wrote my senator and asked
One of our state senators is on the committee. I just wrote his office to inquire how he voted.
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