Should ISPs Cut Off The Entertainment Industry For Pushing Them To Censor?
from the nuclear-option? dept
A bunch of folks have been sending over Rick Falkvinge's plea for ISPs to start refusing service to any company or organization that seeks to have them block access to others. This is, of course, in the wake of the Newzbin2 ruling:"Any party forcing any of our kin anywhere in the world through a court of law to filter or censor any third part, or otherwise interfere with their communications, or threatening to use such force, directly or through an agent or membership alliance, and for whatever reason, shall have its identity and its business kicked off the net on all ports and all services. In transit, and at the end of the line. They shall be denied service and they shall be denied presence. For they who would deny communication to another, deserve no better for themselves."It's quite a manifesto, and I certainly understand the sentiment behind it, but I'm not convinced it's a good idea for two key reasons. First, it's unlikely that any ISP will actually agree to this. Especially these days, when ISPs themselves think that they need to get beyond being "dumb pipes" and want to be in the content business themselves, too many of them no longer realize that they should be focusing on what's best for consumers. Second, and more importantly, I'm just not convinced that escalating a war stance is really that effective. I know it feels good, and many people here likely support this idea. But all it really does is continue to put the pro-copyright folks on the defensive and allows them to portray themselves as victims, rather than aggressors. I realize that some still view it as quaint, but I still believe that eventually the firms in these industries will come around to recognizing that it's in their own best interests to embrace what the technology allows, and cutting them off from the internet won't bring them any further down that path... but instead would likely make them dig in harder on their original position.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: censorship, copyright, isps
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
That wouldn't take long.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
They have asserted that making copyrighted material available regardless of whether it's downloaded by anyone is still copyright infringement.
We can thus say that censoring anything at all, no matter if anyone would have bothered to listen/read the message, is still mass censorship and should be punished accordingly.
Since freedom from censorship is a more vital right in a democratic republic than the privilege of a temporary monopoly on copying a particular work, the punishment should be more harsh (and criminal). Corporations should be dissolved for violating civil rights since their corporate charters are a privilege granted by the people through the government.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wiki
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It is far simpler on the little grey ones to just handle any and all problems by telling the legal department to sue someone.
Besides, anyone developing any newfangled business models due to techno-whatchacallit is basically a thief, taking sales and customers from honest traditional businesses.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
It'd be interesting to know what innovations they were successful in stopping over the last century.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
DAT (digital audio tape) was originally pushed as a replacement for the audio cassette but paranoia over "perfect" digital copies forced all consumer DAT decks to have copy protection (Audio Home Recording Act of 1992) and the format was stillborn outside of pro audio (where it was used through the mid to late 90's). Amusingly the protection used was called SCMS which most users of DAT decks referred to as "scummy".
I don't think it would have replaced audio cassettes anyway as the transport was similar to a VCR in design and was probably too fiddly to be reliable in a car stereo, which is what really pushed cassette in front of vinyl at the time.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I work for a major US cableco ISP. When we cut someone off, we put a block on service at that address. The next person trying to get service there has to go to the local office with proof that they lived somewhere else before.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
> on service at that address. The next person
> trying to get service there has to go to
> the local office with proof that they
> lived somewhere else before.
What a wonderfully customer-friendly policy. Nothing like trying to patronize a business and the first thing that happens is they punish you for the actions of someone else who you don't even know.
My response would be to tell them to screw themselves and sign up with their competitor.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Actually, it goes even further than that. Whenever someone applies for service and we run a check on them, one of the things we check is whether they ever lived with someone who owes us money. If so then they can't have service at any address until either that other person pays off what they owe us or this person pays it off for them. One way or the other, someone is going to have to pay. The collections department is very firm about that.
My response would be to tell them to screw themselves and sign up with their competitor.
I hope you're willing to move somewhere else then because in many areas we're the only game in town for high speed internet and we're certainly the only cable provider.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You, sir, are an asshole and it's no wonder you post anonymously.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So, what's your address, Paul? And do you have cable?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
...and no, I don't have cable, though I do have that option if I wanted. I'd certainly be sure not to obtain that type of access if the above AC is any indication of the way they treat their customers, however.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
So now there are multiple parties who are guilty until proven innocent originating from one "kicking". Next thing you know, they will charge a fee to remove the block. Once this gets past the courts there will a huge increase in the quantity of accusations. Looks like a new and improved business model for the fascist regime. Drinks all around - its party time!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I've already done it -- a long time ago
This people are enemies of the Internet, and they've ALREADY declared war on it. I see no reason not to return the favor.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Whining about it won't change much.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
It doesn't mean that you give up and stop trying to stop the problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
It doesn't mean that you give up and stop trying to stop the problem.
No, it means you should find a better solution. In your example of the drug dealer, how about legalizing the drug use, taxing it and using the new revenue to help the addicts kick the habit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes. These substances are neither better nor worse than alcohol, nicotine, Oxycontin or any of the other legal substances that are misused all the time.
30 years of enhanced law enforcement in the *War on Drugs" has shown us that attacking the dealer (or service provider, if you will) hasn't worked. It seems to me that attacking the problem from the other side would make more sense. Start by removing the demand for the illegal product in the first place by providing a legal and safer option.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It seems that people like you, Gwiz, would turn the world into a hedonistic free-for-all and not care at all about the consequences.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well, since you asked, cocaine hydrochloride CII is a prescription topical anesthetic.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I guess this idiot doesn't know that cocaine is also a prescription drug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cocaine_hydrochloride_CII_for_medicinal_use.jpg
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Instead, you launch into the usual hyperbole you use for discussions on the entertainment industry (which is what this thread is about, remember?), and assume it's all but nothing. Legal stuff has to be OK (despite the horrendous damage alcohol abuse causes) and illegal stuff has to be 100% bad, despite many medicinal uses. You literally don't have the brain capacity to see otherwise.
"It seems that people like you, Gwiz, would turn the world into a hedonistic free-for-all and not care at all about the consequences."
Whereas people like you want a totalitarian state where everything has to have an extortionate price tag, paid to corporations. Between these two ridiculous scenarios, I know which I would choose.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The exact same purposes that Mike's Hard Lemonade, Budweiser and Marlboro Reds have. And who the fuck are you to tell other people what they can and cannot put into their own bodies?
It seems that people like you, Gwiz, would turn the world into a hedonistic free-for-all and not care at all about the consequences.
Not at all. Our current solution is not working. Not only that, it has also turned the US into a quasi-police state and has eroded our Constitutional freedoms in the process. For what? What have we gained? It's time to rethink the strategy.
Perhaps you should go and read the history of marijuana laws. It wasn't made illegal because it harmed people. It was made illegal because of William Hearst, who had millions of acres of forests and didn't want to compete with hemp paper and DuPont who had a patent on Nylon and didn't want to compete with hemp rope.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Actually, it has worked just the way it is really intended to work. It has made criminals out of a large number of people and created yet another way to make the poor poorer and the rich richer. This is what the copyright industry is hoping a "copyright war" will do for them as well.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'd look up the word "only" in the dictionary, and perhaps follow that up with a medical dictionary.
I also love the idiotic derailing of the thread, as usual. No matter how much you wish they were, the use of narcotics and sharing a music file are not analogous. If you think they are, you're too stupid to take part in this argument. If you don't stop trying to derail the conversation.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Unfortunately not no. It's not like the US gov is winning the war on drugs you know. They've tried repression for decades and it hasn't helped one bit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Blocking a single source won't do much, as you fools have been trying to learn the hard way for over a decade. It's been said that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over but expecting different results.
Call me silly, but servicing your customers' needs is a better solution than killing their access to free speech and free legal content. But then, 'm not in charge of a failing industry so what do I know, right?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
That's rich.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ISPs Too
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Should They?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
war is coming to the usa soon in a computer near you !!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
We have the power...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: We have the power...
Come on. If the industry is that bad, don't deal with them at all,and stop enjoying the product.
I doubt many people here could even do it for 90 days.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: We have the power...
If you were to make that bet with me, for one, you'd lose. We're surely not back at the old "nothing that doesn't meet my tastes can be any good" position again, are we? That's one of your weakest.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: We have the power...
I did it for music two years ago, commercial television 8 months ago, and am now moving into movies (I've watched all of five studio movies, all rented DVDs, since April). Your crowd is not as crucial to life as you would like to think.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]