Could New Zealand's Parliament Lose Its Internet Connection Under Its Own Three Strikes Law?

from the looks-that-way dept

Fri, Aug 12th 2011 9:38am — Mike Masnick

Ah, those wacky politicians down in New Zealand. Remember the MP who voted for the "three strikes and we kick you off the internet" copyright law just hours after tweeting that she was listening to a compilation made by a friend? After the law passed, various libraries realized they might suddenly become liable, and many are considering shutting off their WiFi.

But you know who else might be liable? The New Zealand Parliament itself! Boing Boing points us to the news that the Green Party has put out a press release pointing out that even the Parliament might run afoul of the new law, and could risk fines or losing its internet connection.

"This law could bring the gears of government to a grinding halt because the holder of the account � Parliamentary Services � provides internet access to hundreds of users any one of whom could cause infringement notices to be sent."

Not only that, but they note that no one in Parliament has set up a plan to deal with any potential infringement notices, which could put them into even greater trouble. Of course, other MPs will likely claim that this clearly doesn't apply to Parliament, which just shows the ridiculous double standard of such laws.

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Filed Under: copyright, new zealand, parliament, three strikes

39 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:43am

Talk about a reach.

There are plenty of uninformed people out there who just don't realize they are breaking the law, and that includes some politicians. You know, the same ones who might get caught speeding at times or perhaps watering their laws 10 minutes too early before the save water curfew ends.

It's another "could" story, and yes, the members of the NZ government could also flap their arms and fly to the moon. It's all about arm speed, so I am told.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:49am

Re:
If the laws are such that you can be breaking the law and not know it then perhaps we should rethink our laws.
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jimbo, 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:49am

the idiots that write and vote into law these ridiculous rules never think of nor care about the consequences to the ordinary people. it is only when a situation like this occurs that they realise what they have done. however, they just give themselves immunity and carry on business as usual. i'm ok jack, stuff you! typical double standards!
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Rikuo (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:50am

I read about this on another website earlier today, can't remember where. It was either in the article or comments section (curse my poor memory!) that someone said they were deliberately connected to the NZ Parliament internet connection to infringe on copyright, hoping to get three strikes. For once, I hope this happens!
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blaktron (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:52am

Re:
You dont know a whole lot about physics, or law. Basically because they themselves are a service provider, they are just as likely to be found in violation of this law as any other service provider. In fact, if people are talking about it in NZ, I would suspect its going to be a bit of a game to get them kicked off the internet in the future.

Also, flapping wing based flight has far more to do with lift and body mass than arm speed, but I wouldn't expect you to know much about birds either.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:52am

Re:
You don't think that perhaps a judge would find that the PI didn't break the law, and rather malicious people attempted to frame them? It would seem that would rise to the level of criminal mischief, no?
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The eejit (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:55am

Re: Re:
That's the point. If everyone's a criminal, then it's easier to catch critics.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:55am

Re:
There was such a mention on reddit not too long ago...
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Rikuo (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:58am

Re: Re:
But that's the thing, three strikes regimes don't go to court. They're based on "If you're accused three times, you suffer the consequences". Unless I'm completely wrong, and in such a case, feel free to correct me.
Besides, if a judge rules the Parliament connection to be innocent, it would cause an uproar. It would mean an investigation would have to have been carried out to determine who exactly is guilty of abusing the connection. Such an investigation wouldn't happen if it was some poor schmuck being accused.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:01am

Re: Re:
If you have a limitation of lift, you can only create more by improving the lift system or using it more often. If each arm swipe generates X lift, and you need 27X to get off the ground, clearly increasing arm speed by 27 times will accomplish the feat.

But you knew that.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:04am

Re: Re: Re:
... and you think they wouldn't finger some poor schmuck & make an "example" of 'im?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:05am

Re: Re: Re:
Guilty until proven guilty.
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Anonymouse, 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Guilty until profit.

FTFY.
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blaktron (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:26am

Re: Re: Re:
Right. Actually, wrong, but who's counting? You're always right, right? Waving your arms generates less energy than it takes to flap them.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
1. Guilty!
2. ???
3. Profit!
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HothMonster, 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:40am

Re: Re:
"Like Parliament, schools, libraries and universities run the risk of fines or disconnection. Unitec in Auckland has even said they might cease providing internet services for students due to possible copyright liability," said Mr Hughes.

Well after they see your post they won't have to worry anymore. Clearly you know more about law then them, the gov, schools and libraries are just providers.

Just like I provide service to the people who use my open wifi, its not like they don't just count the strike against the IP holder.
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WysiWyg (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 10:55am

Re:
So, you think that one or a couple of them getting caught speeding or missing water curfew is basically the same as the entire Parliament getting cut off from the Internet?

About the probability; the only thing we know is that A; the system is designed to be easy for the rightsholders to use (which mean it's hard to defend yourself) and B; people are already working hard on getting Parliament cut off.

I caught this news yesterday when I read (somewhere, thought it was here) about someone who reported that he had gained access to their network, and that he was in progress of downloading and sharing craploads of stuff.

So yes, I think it's more or less a guarantee that they'll at least receive a warning or two.
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Blatant Coward (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 11:06am

Re:
It shouldn't be difficult, Parliament Member Melissa Lee herself admitted to having a copyright infringing lifestyle.
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mike allen (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 11:09am

be good to watch when it happens. It is more when than if.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 11:28am

Can't you tell, they are still groping around a way to use diplomatic immunity from thier own laws in thier own country.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 11:28am

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 12th, 2011 @ 9:43am
It's another "I didn't read the linked article comment" and yes, if you don't read the material everyone else is commenting on you could make your comments about anything.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 11:31am

Re: Re: Re:
Lift does not scale linearly with arm speed.

But you knew that.
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Michael Lockyear, 12 Aug 2011 @ 11:42am

Politicians, like clever criminals, are above the law...EVERYONE knows that!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 12:11pm

from the looks-that-way dept

I'd say it's "from the classic-mindless-what-if-techdirt-copyright-FUD dept". You're really sounding desperate here with this one.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 12:17pm

Re:
Almost as desperate as the idea of kicking people off of the internet will lead to sales.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 12:41pm

Re: Re:
African or European?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 12:41pm

Re: Re:
African or European?
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V, 12 Aug 2011 @ 1:31pm

Re: Anonymous Coward
"It's another "could" story, and yes, the members of the NZ government could also flap their arms and fly to the moon. It's all about arm speed, so I am told."

This is by far the most ridiculous thing I've read all day.

I don't care how much you flap your arms, once you break out of earth's gravity, you'll have to object to act against and your movement is going to be stalled. At that point, you'll need some sort of external thrust like a can of whip cream to provide momentum. I think shaking up soda and opening it might work too... but it's easier to contorl the whip cream.

And don't forget that the higher you go, the colder it's going to get, so you need to account for that and dress warmly. I suggest a jacket... possibly a scarf.

And then, there's the fact that once you get past 8200 ft, you'll start needing additional oxygen, so make sure you bring a snorkel.

Geez... think these things thru before you say something so silly!
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The eejit (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 2:35pm

Re:
Nah, just pointing out the level of Stupid involved. :)
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 2:51pm

Re: Re:
"Could" lose its internet connection. "Might" run afoul of the new law. "Could" risk fines. "Could" put them into even greater trouble. They "will likely" claim something.

This is some of the stupidest stuff I've ever read on the internet. Mike is really scraping the bottom of the barrel here. He's so desperate he's even making shit up now about what "could" happen. Give me a break.

And I love how he says that they might make some argument, and that shows a double standard (even though they didn't actually make the argument). Idiocy, Mike. Seriously, dude, get a clue.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 5:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
If everyone's a criminal, let's just collectively decide it's illegal to be a lawmaker.
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gorehound (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 6:27pm

NZ Gov will have their web hacked into by a lot of P2P'ers I forecast.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 6:52am

From the Government where an MP tweeted about listening to some k-pop a freind copied had sent her, and she was to busy to look into the law and see it was broken.

We give you someone using the Governments connection to share... Miley Cyrus aka Hannah Montana.

Now its not like this will go anywhere, because it will be neatly cleaned up behind closed doors. These laws, like most laws past, are not meant to apply to those passing them or their close "friends" with large checkbooks.

They Government will give lip service about how this was someone malicious who was just out to subvert the rule of law for their own benefit, rather than accept the idea they were wrong and screwed up big.
But because they were innocent in this, they should not face any problems... but they have made it clear for regular people it does not matter if your innocent or not.

Do as we say, not as we do.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Aug 2011 @ 6:21pm

Re:
actually, NZ MPs don't usually give themselves immunity to stuff like this. what actually tends to happen is that when they pass particularly stupid laws, they end up adding to the load of already overworked departments, (police, IRD, whatever) who end up just plain not enforcing them unless someone's caught for a whole Lot of things and that's just added to the list. so far as i've ever noticed, anyway, so take that for what you will.

they are, however, quite prone to making laws that are heavily bias in favour of them and their mates in the first place.
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Chargone (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 6:23pm

Re: Re:
the above post was me.

silly techdirt randomly deciding it doesn't remember me anymore :S
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Chargone (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 6:26pm

Re: Re: Re:
actually, if i remember rightly, and i may not, there's the whole three strikes bit, then it goes to a tribunal (can't remember if they can't cut you off without that or if it only goes there if challenged though), then if the tribunal fails to resolve the issue/one party appeals the ruling/one or both parties fail to follow through on the ruling of the tribunal, Then it goes to court.

at least, that's the usual process when there's a tribunal involved in the resolution process, and last i read the relevant documents there was.
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Chargone (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 6:34pm

Re: Re: Re:
.... the 'will likely' bit was wrong, i believe, because NZ politics don't quite work that way.

the rest of it sounds exactly like how our politicians and media tend to put stuff anyway. it's in the future, there are no grantees, and they don't want to get sued into the ground if they're wrong and someone finds a way to make something absurd stick.

"Of course, other MPs will likely claim that this clearly doesn't apply to Parliament, which just shows the ridiculous double standard of such laws. " this bit hear just shows a lack of knowledge regarding NZ politics. the rest is pretty much what the debate on the issue looks like here.

the actual standard response for such laws from the MPs is usually something to the effect of 'well, it's up to the police to enforce these laws, or not, as appropriate' (which, i might add, usually pisses the cops off because it should NOT be their job to do anything other than actually enforce the law, not have to constantly make decisions that should be taking place at the level of parliament/the courts) or in this case 'that's why we have a tribunal, so that if you're falsely accused it can be sorted out'
(thing to remember: at tribunals, it's not an adversarial thing with lawyers arguing and trying to convince the judge. the cost of going to a tribunal is usually low and who pays how much of it is usually part of the resulting agreement. tribunals are negotiations between the two parties with an arbitrator present to help them reach an agreement, or force one if they can't.)
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Chargone (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 6:43pm

Re:
depends who's in power at the time, here. that's not actually the standard response.

NZ government =/= US government.

the country, and bureaucracy, is a lot smaller, parliament has only one house, is a lot smaller than the US equivalents, and, if memory serves, still gives us less people per representative... the party system has a much stronger lock on how MPs vote, sadly, but on the other hand, lobbyists have a LOT less. our biggest problem is that a lot of parties have a tendency to take ideology over reality when making decisions. and sadly Both our major parties have bought into the lie that is 'free trade', and National, the one currently in power, basically has as it's ideology 'line our pockets and be more compliant with the demands of the USA' (which basically means, the various large corporations).

hehe. even they won't quite go as far as trying to say we should build nuclear reactors though. ('we should not dismiss looking into the possibility as an option'is about as close as it gets), because for all that more people are less worried about the reactors themselves*, it's seen as one of those nationalistic things. 'we refused to cave on this despite the most powerful empire in the world pressuring us', added to the fact that the only political types who actively support such ideas on any level are seen to be somewhat in the pockets of the empire in question... yeah. not a popular idea.

*(I'm not one of those people. the incredibly low risk of disaster does not outweigh the MASSIVE downside of if it does eventuate. tidal generators look more promising)
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 14 Aug 2011 @ 11:32pm

Re: Re:
I admit my knowledge of NZ politics is limited.
Given an MP tweeting about having violated copyright, while voting to give into the copyright insanity... yeah I went right to the idea of money.

We'll see what happens, because I am guessing even with this much lead time I doubt that they will find the person using the connection inside the Government to share the Hannah Montana collection before the letters go out. If the letter doesn't go out its bad, if the letter goes out and they don't get cut off its worse.
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