Feds Insist That As Long As They Break The Law In A 'Classified' Way, They Can Never Be Sued
from the please-explain-how-that-works dept
The EFF has been involved in a series of lawsuits against the government and telcos concerning the almost certainly illegal warrantless wiretapping program that the US has been using for many years, which was exposed by the NY Times and Wired a few years back. The US government more or less admitted what it was doing was entirely illegal when it passed new legislation that (a) tried to make the warrantless wiretapping legal and (b) granted telcos retroactive immunity from any lawsuits for helping the government. Because of these things -- along with the US's insistence that these lawsuits would reveal state secrets -- all of the lawsuits have been dismissed. However, the 9th Circuit appeals court is now considering restating them after an appeal via the EFF.What's pretty stunning about the federal government's position is that it seems so farcical on its face. It seems to be claiming that (1) as long as the government breaks the law in a classified way, that can never be subject to litigation and (2) if lawsuits concerning illegal activity would be a burden on those who participated in the illegal activity, then such lawsuits should not be allowed. I'm not kidding. A couple of quotes:
“Congress made a considered decision that it would be unfair if [the telcos] were subject to potential suits and ruinous liability,” Kellogg said.But combine those two things and you're basically saying the government has full impunity to do whatever the hell it wants and can never face any legal consequences. On top of that, those who help the government can never face legal consequences either. How does that possibly make sense? It appears that at least two of the judges on the three judge panel had significant concerns about this:
Department of Justice Attorney Thomas Bondy urged the panel of judges to abide by Congress’ wishes. He repeated over and again that litigating the allegations would expose national security secrets.
“Who was or who was not surveilled, that’s classified,” he said. “What any particular carrier did or did not do, that’s all classified.”
Judge Michael Daly Hawkins wondered aloud, “If these plaintiff’s don’t have standing, who would?” Judge M. Margaret McKeown said the “concern” she had was that the suits’ dismissal “cuts off the plaintiffs … from ever pursuing a claim.”But, those random musings aren't necessarily indicative of how the court will rule. I am hopeful they realize the plainly ridiculous state of the government simply being able to hide any illegal activity behind a claim that "it's classified," and will allow at least some of these cases to go forward.
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Filed Under: classified, doj, immunity, legality, us government, warrantless wiretapping
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Years, man!!
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Fucking brilliant, these subhuman ass-trumpets....
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I think that is fair. The government is a bunch of guys with guns. If the telcos had not cooperated with such an illegal spying program it is quite likely that the feds would have retaliated. Ultimately, the ones responsible for this are the officials who ordered and implemented the spying program. Those people should be arrested, fined, subject to civil liability and then thrown in jail.
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The Nuremberg trials were after the War. I guess if the current powers in this country ceased to be and was replaced by a more just, then the execs at the telcos may begin to piss and shit themselves a bit. Most likely they would be more concerned with other things they have done though. Just my opinion.
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TORTURE
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No, they should have resisted, they should have raised the alarm and they should have taken the feds to court (if the feds didn't back down).
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NSA reprisals
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The criminal equivalent
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Someone had to make the decision
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In the end, they want those magic words to convey an immunity that no free society should allow.
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Judges are pretty bright on the whole
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This Just In: The price of bullets has risen ten-fold overnight with many retailers reporting shortages.
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easy answer
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Kafka would be proud
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Hold the phone...
AT&T has a revenue stream of $124B. Verizon? $106B. Just to be fair, let's look at Comcast who has $38B and Time Warner ($18B). All of this has been taken from wikipedia on 9/1.
Now let's look at how much they spend lobbying to Congress with their revenue...
AT&T - 30% more on lobbying but total money in expenditures? $12 million dollars for favorable legislation
Verizon - $9 Million
Comcast - $11 Million
Time Warner - $4 Million
Now out of all of these companies, that give a lot of money to Congress, I find it quite odd to hear that they're worried about making them bankrupt.
AND PLEASE! SOMEONE GET THOMAS BYRON A REAL TIE INSTEAD OF THAT PINWHEEL!
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Of course the lawyers gets about a million or so...
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this is news?
German citizen Khalid el-Masri was similarly kidnapped and tortured in a case of mistaken identity. He was then released on a desolate road in Albania with no money, no identification, only the clothes on his back, and no passport. He was detained there as a terrorist due to his unkempt appearance and general lack of documents. He eventually sued (by video -- same mistaken identity resulted in him being denied entry to the US) which suit was dismissed. This suit was dismissed without being heard because it "would present a grave risk to national security."
The state secrets exception has a long history of being used to cover up government embarrassment. You can read more about it here:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/State_secrets_privilege
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Classified lawbreaking
You are MY government. I am NOT your servant. GTAFFAARD.
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ironic isn't it.
here, there are lawyers working in a good way to promote restraint of government. this is the kind of work that earns the legal profession it's reputation for being an essential component of a thriving classically liberal and libertarian society. lawyers are supposed to traditionally be part of a society that restrains criminal behavior by government, at the highest levels.
unfortunately over the past 2 decades of over-lawyering , nuisance lawsuits, and corporate and insurance lawyering, the american legal industry has mostly had a parasitic effect upon most of america. i'm glad there are still some lawyers fighting the government for basic liberty of american citizens from government coercion.
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