CA Governor Lets Police Search Your Smartphones At Traffic Stops
from the shameful dept
While it had been rumored it's unfortunately now confirmed that California governor Jerry Brown has sold out your privacy to law enforcement. After a bad court ruling gave law enforcement the ability to search your mobile phone during a traffic stop, the California legislature realized the ridiculousness of the situation and passed the bill requiring a warrant pretty quickly.But, unfortunately, despite widespread support for it, Governor Brown has vetoed the bill, meaning that your mobile phones are fair game for searches without a warrant. Not only that, but he couldn't even make a statement to stand up for what he believes in about this, apparently only arguing that he vetoed the bill because "the issue is too complicated for him to make a decision about" and that it's better for the courts to decide.
Governor Brown knows better than this and he's being intentionally misleading. The courts are supposed to interpret the will of the legislature and make sure it's in line with the Constitution. Here, the legislature is clearly saying that it thinks such searches need a warrant. Leaving it for "the courts" to resolve is punting, and failing to take a stand for basic privacy rights. It's a weak move.
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Filed Under: 4th amendment, california, jerry brown, mobile phones, privacy, searches
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No conflict of interest...
That support would be key if Brown decides to seek a second term.
In the last year alone, at least seven police unions donated more than $12,900 each to Brown. Those unions, including the California Association of Highway Patrolmen and the Sacramento County Deputy Sheriff’s Association, had given Brown more than $160,000 in combined contributions
No conflict of interest at all...
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Re: No conflict of interest...
There's not a union in the state that Jerry Brown doesn't grease up and bend over for.
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If there were ever a state that needs better ways to vote, from being the epicenter of learning in the 80s, to the Hollywood police force of today, it's California.
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Another governor..
Are there any governors in the U.S. that truly care about their citizens?
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I am sort of amazed here by the way you phrase this. You make it sound like there are no existing laws or court decisions already existing that cover this "in theory". Do we really need another law to muddy the waters? There are plenty of existing laws, and the courts are still not clear based on existing law how to handle smart phones.
Gov Brown is doing exactly the right thing: Let the courts work with the current laws, see where they fail based on judgements, and then move forward to address the issues that the courts bring into the game.
What is so hard to understand?
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Yes a law that would make it clear that you need a warrant to search phones at a traffic stop would really muddy things up. Best we just leave it unclear then to prevent it from being muddied.
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What is so hard to understand?
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Let it run it's course (up to SCOTUS is they so desire) and then act. For the moment, this appears to be well within caselaw for all other searches. It's only a "bad court ruling" because Mikey doesn't like it.
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I mean a device with every communication you have had in the last 2 years is the same thing as a wallet.
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> "bad court ruling". It doesn't appear to be,
> it appears to be entirely in line with all
> other normal in car search procedures.
No, it isn't because a smart phone is qualitatively unlike anything else one would carry in a car. A glove box and an iPhone are hardly the same thing for a variety of different reasons, so the rules that apply to the former can't reasonably be applied to the latter.
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Really you could lock your phone in your glove box, which would also decrease the number of jackasses driving around while talking on their phone but for those of us that use it for GPS and/or a music player that wouldn't really work.
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> passenger seat really different? They are,
> in the end, just a box full of information.
> If the box can be searched, why not your phone?
The entire basis and justification for allowing the search of the box is officer safety. They cans search the box to ensure that it doesn't contain weapons or explosives but they can't sit there and pour over the contents of the files and make copies for themselves for further investigation.
There's absolutely no officer safety justification for seaching the contents of an iPhone. That's the difference between the phone and the box of files. The box could possibly contain a gun. The iPhone cannot.
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More like an Acme portable hole that contains your entire life history.
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1.2GHz dual-core processor
768 MB RAM
8MP camera
1080p multitouch screen
I'd say that's old Laptop specs to me. Compare with my SO's Notebook:
1.6GHz dual-core processor
2GB RAM
1.3MP camera
576i screen (1440x900 resolution)
I'm pretty sure it's FUBAR when the former can be searched without a warrant, whilst the latter can't.
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The legislature made a specific clarification to protect the people from an overall outrageous misinterpretation of police rights. Removing this clarification muddies the water. Police will continue to abuse this overreaching interpretation to violate individual privacy rights when there is no physical threat, and citizens will have to pursue legal means after their rights have been violated, at their own expense and time, when legislation was already in place to prevent the process to begin with.
Jerry Brown has been doing a bang-up job lately of making people miss Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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All Brown had to do was sit on his hands. Instead he took an active effort to block the will of the legislature to correct a perceived wrong. And can't even explain why.
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My phone is password protected, and I will refuse to provide that password, even under threat of arrest. And I have nothing there to hide.
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So I don't really see the point of your comment.
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9834495-38.html
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I have a CC permit so I've done some extensive research on my rights at a traffic stop, and when stopped on foot in public, especially when I'm carrying. I was very surprised at what I learned. I think the key is, never consent to anything, stay polite and calm, and keep your mouth shut.
http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racial-justice/know-your-rights-what- do-if-you
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Yeah, really when talking to a cop you only should use 4 phrases: Yes sir, No sir, I do not consent to any searches and am I being detained?
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If you decided to record the police with your phone, then it's left open. So any evidence you may have of wrong doing on the phone, the officer can go through and delete without anything to back up what you say. So it may be better to have a camcorder or fight for this right in court.
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0000
1234
9999
5678
as passwords.
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Misleading headline
As I understand it, the issue is whether the police can search someone's cell after they've been arrested, not just during a traffic stop. I'm not saying that what they're doing is OK, but based on the headline and all of the text of the post, it makes it sound like the cops are demanding that people hand over their cell phones when they get pulled over for speeding or having a tail light out.
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Re: Misleading headline
The danger is that law enforcement will make the assumption that rights are waived and they can use the information found in your cell phone to launch additional investigations.
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Re: Misleading headline
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Phone security
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Re: Phone security
But, most people do not care enough to take personal responsibility and learn to do things like that.
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Re: Phone security
> encrypt the contents, and current phone
> scraping tools bypass that directly.
Yeah, but the average patrol officer who pulls you over for speeding isn't going to have that sort of equipment on hand.
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Re: Re: Phone security
Wrong. This is just one example of the simple equipment used, there are other providers too:
http://www.cellebrite.com/forensic-products/forensic-products.html?loc=seg
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Re: Re: Re: Phone security
> equipment used
Let me put it this way, I work with cops on a daily basis, and none of the ones I've encountered have such equipment on hand.
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Re: Phone security
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A few questions (forgive me if I missed these in the post)
When they say search, are they allowed to delete anything (video for instance) that they find and don't like (for fear of it being used against them)?
Does this search include the memory card on your phone?
Are all officers now going to have to be trained on how to: firstly, establish what is a smartphone, and secondly, know how to operate all smartphones in existance? - Will they be wanting a payrise for this extra qualification?
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Re: A few questions (forgive me if I missed these in the post)
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here's an idea
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Re: here's an idea
This is how it is supposed to work in a free society.
You've got it.
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Re: here's an idea
If an officer pulls me over, and I'm stupid enough to have a bag of weed sitting on my lap, then yes, they may arrest me. I am still however, entitled to a lawyer and to have my belongings searched in a legitimate manner. If I'm arrested for drug possession/speeding/whatever, as far as I can tell, the officer does not have the authority to just then and there search my phone on the spot (if I'm wrong, please correct me people). Such searches, as I understand it, come afterward, once I have access to a lawyer.
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Re: Re: here's an idea
Well, after you're detained, he could arrest your data, implicating him! Then, practically any access you have to email, social networks, on your phone, is liable to have you jailed and the police a LOT of access to your friends and family.
This isn't just unconstitutional, this is an invasion of privacy on untold levels.
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Re: Re: Re: here's an idea
arrest your = erase any
GRRR...
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Re: here's an idea
Your statement is the classic line of someone who is willing to have his rights stripped away for what? I get pulled over for a burnt out tail like (it actually does happen) and then the officer gets to go through my phone and pull out my banking information, some CC statements,photos of my kids, my wife, access to my work e-mail, private e-mail? Its not about having something to hide. Its about its none of their god damn business.
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Re: here's an idea
They can pull you over for *anything* if they want to harass you.
I've been pulled over for a busted taillight apparently just so I can be interrogated about the age of the female passenger in my vehicle at the time.
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Re: here's an idea
What is incriminating?
Congress doesn't know how many laws are in the books.
Are you saying that every citizen now needs to be an expert in the law to carry a phone?
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Dead Kennedys - "California Über Alles"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlvUz6phquo
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"Every get the feeling that everything in America is completely fucked up?"
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you probably don't have to worry.. they're there for your uncool niece.
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Response to: bjupton on Oct 11th, 2011 @ 8:03am
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governor moonbeam
wait...crap, isn't that how kazinski started?
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Re: governor moonbeam
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Re: governor moonbeam
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California Über Alles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CR2rxRMcTE
just sayin'
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Re: California Über Alles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD0CDLJ7yzQ
This Governor is just the kind of man we need to throw out of Washington and tar & feather him as an example.
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Serious question
Jerry Brown was a fool's choice, but then, I live in a state of fools (yes California).
Somehow the state has convinced itself that it's citizens are highly "enlightened" and should lead the rest of the country.
Fact of the matter is, it's just as full of moral and ethical failings as any other state, and is overrun with 'educated' idiots.
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Re: Serious question
> live in a state of fools (yes California).
And don't forget-- not only did he veto this cell phone bill, he signed the Dream Act bill, which reaches into the pockets of California citizens and hands it over to illegal aliens.
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> and gets according to his needs."
It's getting to the point where even that isn't true anymore. You only get according to how much your grievance group gives to the politicians.
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Re: Re: Serious question
Hmm, should we push to educate more of our residents or should we continue to isolate legal residents whose parents are illegal and young illegals?
It's like the drive to deny drivers licenses to illegals. The result is more unlicensed drivers with no insurance.
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What if you don't have a phone?
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Re: What if you don't have a phone?
this will work out well.
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You can't have it both ways - the internet crosses all borders, which means your content is published in all of those areas too.
Suck it up.
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Brown's Weak Move
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Re: Brown's Weak Move
> some police officer reads all of the Governor's
> mail.
You'll be waiting a long time, then. The governor has a CHP escort. No cop is going to pull over a motorcade being escorted by a bunch of other cops.
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Cue "California Uber Alles"...
Is he perfect? Does he always do the right thing? Fuck no, but part of that is the ridiculously bollixed up Legislature in California.
But this decision is bullshit. He should've signed it and sucked up to the Police & Prison Guard unions some other way.
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Sieg heil, moon Fuhrer!
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Wrong
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Kaliforniaaa UBER Alles.
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