More People Realizing That The FBI's 'Big Wins' Are In Stopping Its Own Made Up Terror Plots

from the playing-at-cops-and-robbers dept

Fri, Dec 2nd 2011 2:00pm — Mike Masnick

We've pointed out, more than a few times, that it seems like so many of the big "terrorist plots" that the FBI has been "breaking up" (to tremendous fanfare and press coverage) really appear to be the FBI's own terror plots. It appears we're not alone in that assessment. The Guardian recently had an excellent article highlighting these same concerns:

Critics say the FBI is running a sting operation across America, targeting � to a large extent � the Muslim community by luring people into fake terror plots. FBI bureaux send informants to trawl through Muslim communities, hang out in mosques and community centres, and talk of radical Islam in order to identify possible targets sympathetic to such ideals. Or they will respond to the most bizarre of tip-offs, including, in one case, a man who claimed to have seen terror chief Ayman al-Zawahiri living in northern California in the late 1990s.

That tipster was quickly hired as a well-paid informant. If suitable suspects are identified, FBI agents then run a sting, often creating a fake terror plot in which it helps supply weapons and targets. Then, dramatic arrests are made, press conferences held and lengthy convictions secured.

But what is not clear is if many real, actual terrorists are involved.

While we always get attacked whenever we use the word "entrapment" to describe these kinds of cases, it appears that at least some of the folks charged in these cases are going to try to claim entrapment in court. It may be tough to find a sympathetic court, considering many of those involved did effectively say they would take part in an attack. But if every part of it was orchestrated and paid for by the FBI... then the whole operation seems questionable. The real issue is why this is a tactic the FBI uses. It's almost as if they feel the need to "create" fake plots to stop just to justify their existence (and very, very large budget).

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Filed Under: fbi, plots, terrorism

32 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:18pm

"It may be tough to find a sympathetic court, considering many of those involved did effectively say they would take part in an attack. But if every part of it was orchestrated and paid for by the FBI... "

Then that's pretty much the definition of entrapment.

"The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit."

Going down to Crack Avenue in ragged jeans and asking to buy a rock is not, however, entrapment. Offering to finance a distribution network and seeing who you can get to join you gang is. See John Delorean. "Without the government, there would be no crime."
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MrWilson, 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:28pm

The old joke in 90's was that every person claiming to be an under-aged girl on the internet was actually an FBI agent trying to catch child molesters.

I guess we'll need to coin a new one about how every terrorist is actually an FBI agent trying to catch terrorists.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:28pm

Question:
Why are so many willing to believe the threats at home are created by the intelligence community so the government can do what it wants, but not believe that most of this external "terrorist" threat is developed by the same people for the very same reason?
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qhartman, 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:35pm

Possible Rationale
I've put some thought into this very thing, and while I personally come down on the side of this being entrapment, I think the nugget at the core of these operations is something like:

"If this person has the will to be a terrorist, but lacks the means, they are still a terrorist."

So, by that logic, they need to identify the people who might have the will, then provide the means as a test, and do it before a real terror financier comes around.

I find this to be complete and utter horseshit of course, but I think that's the core of how these operations will be defended by those who believe in them.

Essentially they are turning terrorism into a crime of opportunity by taking away all the logistical complexities.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:41pm

Re: Question:
The FBI plays in the United States, the CIA play abroad.

To say the FBI was manufacturing terrorist threats outside the USA is silly, that's the CIA's job!
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:52pm

Re:
still in use: "The interwebz, where men are men, women are men, and kids are feds"
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Dark Helmet (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: Question:
That's why I said "intelligence community" jerk! ;)
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A Guy (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:54pm

They are infiltrating groups that are upset and want to do something. Maybe that something involves feeding the poor overseas whom are suffering from a perceived injustice. Maybe it involves violence. They then try to push them toward violence.

That might not be the original intent, but FBI agents need successful operations to build their careers.

There seems to be a strong incentive to build a career on the suffering and naivete of young Muslim men.
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A Guy (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 2:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Question:
Don't call people a jerk on techdirt, you jerk.

It's trollish. ;)
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hothmonster, 2 Dec 2011 @ 3:01pm

Re: Question:
I was willing to believe that DH but I got re-educated and now I know the government would never harm me, outside of the re-education facility at least.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Dec 2011 @ 3:05pm

Re:
"They are infiltrating groups"

Correction, for many of these "plots" they "foil" there is only one person arrested. Meaning the "terrorist" group was the FBI and they recruited a new member, then arrested him. Sometimes they manage to find two people who didn't know each other before the FBI introduced them and then they arrest both of them for plotting. Very very rarely do these plots involve a group of angry people who the FBI infiltrates.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Dec 2011 @ 3:29pm

Re: Re:
and horses are men too. Long story...
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Diaggen, 2 Dec 2011 @ 3:50pm

Re: Possible Rationale
What the FBI is doing is much more than finding people that have the will and removing logistic barriers. They are finding people that have the will (how strong is unknown) and not only removing the barriers but cheering them on.

While someone might want to do X, and they might even get or have means to do X, they are more likely to do X if their "friends" are in favor of it and are helping.
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Drew (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 3:54pm

It's not fair but...
If you are contacted by an FBI terrorist cell then drive to the nearest FBI home office and turn them in to the FBI. Which is what you are supposed to do if a real terrorist cell contacts you.

I know what they are doing is entrapment:
"In criminal law, entrapment is conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit."

However that's been the FBI's operational strategy for decades.
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Ima Fish (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 4:17pm

Just one question: If the FBI doesn't stop made-up crime, who will?
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A Guy (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 4:30pm

Re:
Al Gore.

He will save us all from ManBearPig
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Infowars, 2 Dec 2011 @ 4:52pm

They need it
They need the terror to get you to bend over to their tyrant ways.. If there is nothing going on in the world of terror then how would we let them stick their hands down our little boys pants or a zap us with a million rads from the naked body scanners (that netted someone billions of dollars)?

And to be completely honest, only terrorist I've ever seen have been wearing a badge with a gun or four, kicking in some poor saps door right before firing 500 rounds into the room before looking. Or maybe it was shooting some sucker in the back while handcuffed and laying face down on the concrete. But what do I know, I must be one of those liberty loving, gun totting, anti-big government domestic terrorists we've all been hearing about as of late.

Thomas Jefferson = terrorist
George Washington = terrorist
YOU = terrorist (don't make us suicide or disappear you for speaking out)

Land of the FEE, home of the SLAVE!

Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER!
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MarioGretzky, 2 Dec 2011 @ 4:57pm

Re: Possible Rationale
I love this because under this logic I can totally call myself THE GREATEST HOCKEY PLAYER OF ALL TIME!!!

Just because I lack the means and skill to do so is... irrelevant I guess.
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Baked Potato, 2 Dec 2011 @ 6:00pm

Z-Files
Its been almost 20 years since the 93 WTC bombing, in which it had come out that the terror plot was really an FBI operation. The clown involved, I forget his name, did not like the idea of using real explosives in a public place, and so did not follow orders to park the van next to the correct support column. He also didnt feel comfortable and recorded his conversations with the FBI.

These are the same people who fired on women and children fleeing a burning building in Waco, Texas. The same people who shot an infant and mother in Ruby Ridge, Idaho. And who also managed to find an undamaged passport in the WTC wreckage which just happened to support the theory of radical muslims having committed these acts.

There are two FBI agents who I have any respect for. Fox Mulder and Dana Scully. And even then, they're Hollywood FBI.
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Bergman (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 8:37pm

Re: It's not fair but...
Ah, but then they have you for assaulting federal agents and interfering with a government operation. Win-win for the FBI.
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max.elliott (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 9:44pm

Really people?
They do this because it is a time honored way of dealing with "Threats to internal security." It's something used against many threats like the Black Panthers and AIM. Infiltrate peaceful/passive group that has captured the attention of the powers that be, identify a fringe member willing to do violence, fund and aid that member, "capture" that member, blame the target group. PR success! Used to be that the media would approach the subject with a somewhat "Suuuuure, the FED made them do it, you paranoid nutbag" attitude, but that is changing. Has a very Sun-Tzu like feeling to it though, doesn't it.
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weneedhelp (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 10:01pm

Re: Question:
(Raises hand)I know! I know! Because then they would be.... GASP!!!.... a conspiracy theorist.
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weneedhelp (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 10:13pm

Re: They need it
Hey hey hey!!!! I am the resident conspiracy theorist around here. :)
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weneedhelp (profile), 2 Dec 2011 @ 10:26pm

Re: Z-Files
Dont forget the news footage of the bomb squad going in to the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City to remove two more bombs. Or:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erAFJAsfCnY&
and:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexZtAQ2Y mU&
Dont worry, I have enough tin foil to go around.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 3 Dec 2011 @ 12:25am

Re: Possible Rationale
"If this person has the will to be a terrorist, but lacks the means, they are still a terrorist."

"If this person has the will to be bribed, but lacks the means, they are still a congresscritter."

They want to mostly keep people scared of the boogeyman at any cost to avoid the tough questions of why someone with a weekend training course is now qualified to feel up children at the airport.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Dec 2011 @ 3:48am

Re: Re: Possible Rationale
I'm a potential embezzler. It's just that I'm not in a position of trust in an organization with a lot of loose cash. If only the FBI would remove that logistical barrier ...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Dec 2011 @ 7:54am

The only way the FBI wins is to set up a sting. The FBI never protects anyone except rich folks. Poor folks stay away from them. Their entire demeanor is insulting.
Like Granny said: Never trust a Lawyer, Police Office or a Politician. They all lie for a living.
Words to live by.
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weneedhelp (profile), 3 Dec 2011 @ 8:36am

Careful
Careful Mike, pointing out state sponsored terror gets you lumped in with the likes of us Conspiracy theorists. Then, anything you say no matter how true, no matter how much evidence you provide, gets to be dismissed because "he is a conspiracy whacknutjob." (Ive heard them all.) Because conspiracies never happen ya know.
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Rolda li, 3 Dec 2011 @ 10:21am

USA Fake plots
I agree to this information.

Since Sept. 11, 2001 I had learned that we can not trust and/or believe not body, even our mothers can make fake stories to get some catch from their children. So why fort we should believe the FBI or any politician?

The Iraq was a make believe com-plot again Husein and now they have another against Iran. With the Idea of justifying another unnecessary genocide war.
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bongo houzi (profile), 4 Dec 2011 @ 4:46pm

Is it true congress just passed a bill making it okay for the military to detain, torture, and assassinate an individual within the borders of the U.S. of A. upon the gummit's say so?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 3:20pm

Re: Possible Rationale
I have the will to be a mega rich superstar.... I'm just lacking the means, what multi-letter acronym government agency do I have to submit my paperwork (in triplicate filled out twice) to in order to get them to prove it?

I've got the will to be a mega rich superstar, I just need about 5 Million dollars, a big bag of coke, and some high class hookers... I'm ready, I just need a government agency to help prove I'm a mega rich superstar in hiding....
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 3:27pm

Re:
We could answer that... but then we would have to kill you.

First rule of Police State... don't talk about Police State.
Second rule of Police State... If someone talks about Police State, disappear them.
Third rule of Police State... Not needed, all problems solved by the first two rules.
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