India Says Google & Facebook Should Prescreen All User Generated Content To Stop Jerks

from the don't-disparage-me,-bro dept

Mon, Dec 5th 2011 11:04am — Mike Masnick

If you thought pushing companies to monitor for infringement or terrorism were bad enough, apparently officials in the Indian government have asked Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Yahoo to pre-screen all user-generated content to try to remove "disparaging, inflammatory or defamatory" content from being posted.

At the meeting, Mr. Sibal showed attendees a Facebook page that maligned the Congress Party�s president, Sonia Gandhi. �This is unacceptable,� he told attendees, the executive said, and he asked them to find a way to monitor what is posted on their sites.

In the second meeting with the same executives in late November, Mr. Sibal told them that he expected them to use human beings to screen content, not technology, the executive said.

The three executives said Mr. Sibal has told these companies that he expects them to set up a proactive prescreening system, with staffers looking for objectionable content and deleting it before it is posted.

Apparently, Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Telecommunications, doesn't comprehend the scale of what he's asking, or the fact that it's impossible. How does one become a bureaucrat in charge of a technology field when one can't comprehend such basic concepts? Oh crap, do I have to pre-screen for such "disparaging" remarks now?

Seriously, we're seeing this kind of insanity more and more these days, where politicians, who clearly have absolutely no freaking clue about the technology they're regulating, are coming up with positively insane suggestions, with no comprehension about the ramifications. The end effect in this case, would almost certainly be the end of any kind of user-generated content system in India. Is that really what Sibal wants?

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: defamation, india, kapil sibal, monitoring, social media, user generated content
Companies: facebook, google, microsoft, yahoo

37 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

Hulser (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 10:48am

No good option
The end effect in this case, would almost certainly be the end of any kind of user-generated content system in India. Is that really what Sibal wants?

There are three possibilities...

1) He doesn't know the end effect this would have in spite of his position as Minister for Telecommunications. In other words, he's clueless.

2) He knows the end effect and therefore knows it will never come about. In other words, he's grandstanding.

3) He knows the end effect and doesn't care. In other words, he wants to go back to a time when a few gatekeepers, including the government, controlled communication.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:07am

The end effect in this case, would almost certainly be the end of any kind of user-generated content system in India. Is that really what Sibal wants?

I'm pretty sure the **AA's of the world would love the end of user-generated content! Along with all their political figurehead lapdogs.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
bjupton (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:09am

Someone help me figure out the laws here.

I live in California. Am I allowed to roll my eyes at this dip?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
out_of_the_blue, 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:17am

You excuse with "don't have a clue". -- No, they LOVE power, Mike.
Just a while ago read a piece on how people now deny that evil is real. You show a symptom of that, consistently choosing "fool" rather "knave", especially when discussing politicians. -- They're ALL corrupt, Mike, competing to be the most evil. So don't cut 'em any slack. Those guys know exactly what they're doing: stifling dissent, controlling thought.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
davebarnes (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:20am

let's get this out in the open
Manmohan Singh is a dipshit.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:23am

I'm sure he knows
Where do you think the manpower will come from?
India!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MrWilson, 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:30am

Their ideal system...
Thank you for submitting your content to the Internet�.

The current wait time to have your content reviewed by the Ministry of Information for offensiveness, child pornography, copyright infringement, and eye-rolling before it will be posted online is eight months, two weeks, and seven days.

Remember, you can purchase a corporate internet account for only $45,000/year and enjoy the speed and convenience of the express review queue!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hephaestus (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:32am

Re: let's get this out in the open
If you have a facebook account go post that there also ... :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:37am

Small disparity
I wonder what's going to happen when Egypt's new democracy has a word with India's texting censorship and "review" of indecent materials against American social media groups.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Trails (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:37am

Re: Their ideal system...
Please also continue to pretend that the indian darknet you've heard so much about doesn't exist.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Gwiz (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:39am

Web 3.0?
Why do I get the feeling that Web 3.0 is going to look just like Web 1.0?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:40am

Re: I'm sure he knows
This was exactly what I was thinking. This would require one mighty big outsourcing contract, wouldn't it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
AG Wright (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:40am

Dear Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Telecommunications
You are an idiot.
Hopefully this will qualify me for prosecution in India.

AG
[ link to this | view in thread ]
:Lobo Santo (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:42am

Re: Web 3.0?
Well, it'll be prettier but not nearly as functional as web 2.0--unless you're a L337 |-|4x0R or something.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Comboman (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:43am

Google should request...
Google should request that all of Minister Sibal's ideas be prescreened by his staff to remove any that are impossible, impractical. cost-prohibitive or just plain stupid.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Trails (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:43am

This is very bad for india
India's tech sector (and North America's too) thrives in part on open exchange of information.

Sites like stackoverflow are inundated with Q&A's from folks with indian names, and it's a safe guess a fair percentage of those are in india.

Anyway, this idiot is tilting at windmills. Even if he wins, he'll lose. At most he'll drive facebook out of india, and some other service will take it's place. If he decides to get really stupid, he can try to setup a great firewall, which will be as effective as bailing the titanic with a burlap sack.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mike42 (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:43am

Remember, "Sticks and stones my break my bones, but words will never harm me!" What happened to that?

As a person who was called many unsavory things, I'm really disgusted by this "speak no evil, even if it is the truth" b.s. Verbal insults are nothing after getting punched in the stomach 3 times for beating the schoolyard bully at a game of tetherball. (Yes, this is still burned in my mind 30 years after the fact!)

I think the whole world needs to get off my lawn.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hephaestus (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:45am

My question is, would this apply to only Indian citizens? or to US generated content also? How would they determine who is Indian, and who is from another country?

Facebook prevents news stories from fox news from showing in the "The Most Shared Articles of 2011" so this is nothing new to them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Doug D (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:45am

Re: No good option
4) He assumes all these countries will outsource the job to India, boosting their employment numbers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rikuo (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:47am

Re: You excuse with "don't have a clue". -- No, they LOVE power, Mike.
Is this the same Blue who said he'd destroy Youtube and just a few days ago said he didn't bother reading the articles here?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hephaestus (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:55am

Re: Google should request...
Another reason for a "Report This Politician As An Idiot" button.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hephaestus (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 11:56am

Re: Dear Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Telecommunications
Another reason for a "Report This Politician As An Idiot" button.

/oops commented in the wrong place
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re: You excuse with "don't have a clue". -- No, they LOVE power, Mike.
thats the one
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Brendan (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re: No good option
This was the conclusion I came to as well.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ron (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 12:18pm

Hmmm
Well, India has the manpower. Let India hire the country to scan facebook, etc. for any disparaging remarks made against anything in India. Just hire the whole country. That will then occupy all those people currently doing outsourcing work for US companies, take them out of the workforce so that those jobs can come back to the US.
Short term, Google, et al, could simply block these idiots from the Indian government from appearing in anything presented and just say they are abiding by what the Indian politicians want.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 12:32pm

This is not "impossible", it might be impractical, but it is possible to monitor all the posts. Imagine a negative unemployment rate where the demand for employees is greater than the population.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
hothmonster, 5 Dec 2011 @ 12:34pm

I say they just assign one person to check all content coming from India and see how long it takes the public to get this guy tossed out on his ass once it takes 6 years to get a status update online.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 12:50pm

Series of tubes
Seems a reasonable expectation: just plug the tube going to Mr. Sibal's Internet, and the case is Sol-Ved!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 1:00pm

Re:
This is not "impossible", it might be impractical, but it is possible to monitor all the posts.

No, it's impossible.

This isn't just a matter of scale, but also of knowledge.

It is flat-out impossible for one person to know with certainty what will offend someone else. It is impossible to know if everything posted is defamatory. Assume you're one of the "filters". Somebody you don't know posts that a friend of theirs had sex with his highschool crush. Is this post defamatory? How do you know? Did the sex actually happen? If so, how do you verify that? (Remember, if it's true, it's not defamatory.) If it didn't happen, is it defamatory? If so, which party is it defamatory to?

This isn't just a matter of scale, but rather one of knowledge. You can't know what someone else (or rather *everyone else*) is going to think about everything that could possibly be posted.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
A Guy (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 1:12pm

Re: Re: Re: No good option
Me too

It would probably be more cost effective for facebook to wait for a law to be passed, pull out of India, and then troll any competitor that tries to take its place with said law.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 1:34pm

India should merge with China. They'd get their censorship then. Or the US with how we are going lately.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Greg G, 5 Dec 2011 @ 1:49pm

Re: Their ideal system...
eight months, two weeks, and seven days.

Wouldn't that be like, eight months, 3 weeks, 0 days?, he asked in a non-disparaging way...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MrWilson, 5 Dec 2011 @ 2:57pm

Re: Re: Their ideal system...
Yeah, I figured someone would comment on that. I was just pulling numbers out of my ass without paying attention to how illogical it is - kind of like the entertainment industry calculates its losses due to piracy.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2011 @ 4:30pm

Good idea: Have such an amazing president that anyone insulting him looks like an idiot.
Bad idea: Have such a stupid president that you have to blackmail communications platforms into suppressing dissent to keep his reputation from tanking.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btr1701 (profile), 5 Dec 2011 @ 6:16pm

What he wants
> The end effect in this case, would almost certainly be the
> end of any kind of user-generated content system in India.
> Is that really what Sibal wants?

Why yes, as a matter of fact it is.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anubhav Chattoraj, 5 Dec 2011 @ 8:39pm

Re: No good option
3, 3, definitely 3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Indian_anti-corruption_movement
This spooked the government pretty badly; they had no idea how to deal with it. And social media played a key role in these protests. So now Sibal's gotten the brilliant idea of shutting down the web.

Meanwhile, two civil wars continue to rage in the country, a state continues its futile attempts to repeal martial law, and the national Parliament continues to be deadlocked (as it has been over a year now) over issues of no importance.
Bharat Mata ki Jai.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous non-Coward, 7 Dec 2011 @ 7:44pm

What about analyzing the backlash/responses?
I've always admired the manner in which techdirt covers the topics. How about going over the responses by the googles/facebooks/yahoos to this? Also some of the tweets and blogs by who's who of India's under-represented cyber-presence would be a great addition.
[ link to this | view in thread ]