RIAA Claims It Succeeded In Getting Piracy Under Control Years Ago

from the um,-what? dept

Tue, Dec 6th 2011 8:48am — Mike Masnick

This one's just bizarre. Via Eric Goldman, we learn of an opinion piece in the Tennessean newspaper, in which the RIAA argues that its strategy of suing tens of thousands of file sharers "succeeded" in "bringing piracy under control." The opinion piece is a response to an earlier story in the paper that claimed (quite reasonably, I might add) that the sue fans strategy failed, because "the suits ultimately proved ineffective in ending systematic online piracy." The RIAA, however, says the goal has never been to end piracy, but to "bring it under sufficient control" and they claim they succeeded.

The RIAA's argument makes little sense. Here's the basis for their success claims:

Our legal efforts served as an essential educational tool: Fans know far more now about copyright laws and the legal consequences of stealing music than ever before. Before initiating lawsuits in 2003, only 35 percent of people knew file-sharing on P2P was illegal; afterward, awareness grew to 70 percent.

Where there was virtually no legal digital market before the lawsuits, today the market exceeds $3 billion annually, and revenue from online platforms will comprise more than 50 percent of total industry revenues this year. To boot, there are more than 400 licensed digital services worldwide, compared with fewer than 50 in 2003

First of all, none of that has anything to do with "bringing piracy under control." For all of the supposed "education," all it really served to do was teach more people about file sharing. The amount of file sharing wasn't brought under control, it sky-rocketed, and there's good reason to suggest it was helped along by the legal strategy. There have been studies in the past about how education campaigns telling people not to do something will often increase that action. For example, signs that tell people not to remove rocks from the petrified forest in Arizona were shown to lead to greater rock taking. So I'm not sure what the RIAA thinks it accomplished here.

Furthermore, it's completely laughable that the RIAA is suggesting here that its legal strategy had anything to do with the "legal digital market." The labels were pushed kicking and screaming into iTunes and other offerings. That had absolutely nothing to do with its legal strategy.

But, let's get to the key point: if the RIAA truly believes that it successfully brought piracy under control via these lawsuits that ended a few years ago... why is it supporting things like SOPA and PROTECT IP? After all, isn't the problem solved?

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Filed Under: lawsuit, legal strategy, piracy, under control
Companies: riaa

65 Comments

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Ima Fish (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 8:59am

People once used Napster to download songs. The RIAA stopped that.

People then used the next generation of P2P, e.g., WinMX, to download entire albums. The RIAA stopped that.

People then started using bittorrent to download entire discographies.

If music piracy is "under control", it's only because everything we want has already been downloaded.
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The eejit (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:05am

Re:
WinMX?

...Those were the days....of virus-ridden chaff and mislabeled shite.
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Gwiz (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:05am

This sounds familiar....
It's deja vu all over again!

Mission Accomplished!

Bush stated at the time that this was the end to major combat operations in Iraq. While this statement did coincide with an end to the conventional phase of the war, Bush's assertion�and the sign itself�became controversial after guerrilla warfare in Iraq increased during the Iraqi insurgency. The vast majority of casualties, both military and civilian, have occurred since the speech.
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Spaceboy (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:09am

And Japan was successful in ending WW2.
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Alatar, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:09am

Piracy is under control!
Listen, everyone, and RIAA puppets in the US Congress and Senate, your masters said piracy is totally under control, you can now withdraw those now-useless SOPA and Protect IP projects! Hurray! The RIAA won!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:15am

Didn't I just read an article submitted by YOU, and suppported by you that showed that music piracy has actually decreased while movie piracy has increased?

If they truely want to bring piracy under control they would hire tens of thousands of people to put bogus content on the torrent networks. People would get frustrated with downloading useless crap and eventually move to legitimate sources.
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I-Blz, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:16am

Re: Piracy is under control!
+1 Validpoint
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Trails (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:22am

Re:
Hahahahaha! No.

First off, they've tried that, it failed terribly. Site implement filtering, voting, etc...

Fake shit is uploaded to TPB all the time, very few fall for it.

Second, assuming they could somehow actually pull off flooding the existing BT sites, something else, resilient to whatever flooding technique was being used would spring up over night.

You're right people, would move to other sources, but by no means would they move to anything legitimate.

The people who pirate cannot be harassed into buying media. It is not possible. Even if the internet gets broken, they will find a way. Genie is out of the bottle. it's over.
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Hulser (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:25am

Re:
Didn't I just read an article submitted by YOU, and suppported by you that showed that music piracy has actually decreased while movie piracy has increased?

You know what would be helpful in answering that question? The person who is making an accusation i.e. "YOU" providing a link to the relevant Techdirt post. Otherwise your comment is just noise.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:31am

Small typo.

"RIAA Claims It Succeeded In Getting Piracy Under Control Years Ago"

should be

"RIAA Changes Definition Of 'Under Control'. Claims Ability To Control Piracy, The Universe and Everything (Under The New Definition)"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:32am

So does that mean that the RIAA is fine with losing up to 200 CD/DVD sales of music a year to pirates who download stuff for free online? (Based on their own bogus studies on how much music pirates would have bought if they didn't get it for free online)
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out_of_the_blue, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:35am

Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
You write here nearly every day that RIAA is being TOO successful. -- OR, alternately, NOT, depending on how you can slant a piece. -- Techdirt focus is on the /RIAA's/ problem! (Mike doesn't solve it, of course, not even a plan to, let alone a wish to, but the attention is all that's needed.)

SO, I'd say that the campaign to raise awareness has worked, and that IS getting piracy under control, because whether the levels drop soon is actually LESS of a measure than getting everyone to agree that copyright infringement is wrong. -- And you all KNOW that it is, are just gleeful little pirates wallowing in your petty thefts.
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MrWilson, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:39am

Re:
While I'm sure that would be great for the unemployed foreigners in whichever country this patriotic American entertainment consortium would outsource the tens of thousands of jobs uploading bogus content, you underestimate the ability for crowdsourced content curation.

Look at The Pirate Bay and the gobs of fake content there. It's easy to tell, especially when the first five downloaders scream in the comments that the content is fake. There are other methods as well. When one account posts 120 torrents for DVD rips of movies that haven't been released in the theaters at all or for very long, they're obviously fake. Also, are you investing in multiple IP address blocks? It would be an easy pattern for site administrators to notice that a lot of fake content is coming from the same addresses. TPB also has trusted accounts from users who have been proven to upload real content, so users know which uploaders to trust.
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David Evans (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:42am

I neve knew that before!
So THAT's why it's possible o sell things on the internet. Gosh. The RIAA saved our entire economy, and we didn't even know it.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:42am

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
And just out of curiosity, why does that matter to you? Are you some out of work artist or something?
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E. Zachary Knight (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:47am

Re: Re:
He is correct on that one:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111112/09045016750/new-research-shows-movie-game-piracy-r ise-wont-tell-us-how-it-knows.shtml

This is a report that shows that music piracy is down in the UK. It does not show that piracy is "under control" though.
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Dave, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:48am

They do have control
They now have the politicians listening and that is the control they were looking for.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:53am

Re: Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
We speculate that he is. Given his constant b*tching and moaning about wanting the rest of us to come up with a business model/plan that guarantees a return of $100 million on any/all sunk costs.

The amusing part is that business models/plans have been freely given over and over again by a plethora of people on this very site. Which he somehow seems to always overlook. Then he'll come back and demand an answer the next day.

Oh, for that $100 million it's in regard to a film. So some of us like to assume he's failed filmmaker. We speculated he might be M. Night Shamalan (or however you spell his name), but that'd be giving Blue too much credit.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 9:55am

"in 2003, only 35 percent of people knew file-sharing on P2P was illegal;"

Okay, and what percentage of people even knew what P2P was in 2003?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:01am

Re:
I'd say like 36%.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:03am

Re: Re:
"Fake shit is uploaded to TPB all the time, very few fall for it."
For all intents and purpouses the tpb userbase is a community, they review quality, security concerns (viruses) and authenticity (mislablelled files) just reading the comments to an upload will almost always tell you the whole story.
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Machin Shin, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:08am

Re: Re:
You also forget that torrents need seeds to work and no one will seed fake torrents. You download a fake and first thing you do is delete it. Therefore fakes will never get off the ground because they will have only a few seeds.
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rubberpants, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:09am

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
Sigh.

1. Yes piracy is wrong
2. However, the entertainment industry has never been more profitable
3. Your problem is that *you're* not profitable
3. SOPA won't solve your problem
4. Commenting on every article here isn't going to solve your problem either
5. Asking for out-of-the-box business models isn't going to solve your problem
6. Time to stop blaming "The Internet" and "those filthy pirates" for your plight.
7. Take responsibility for your life and your career and get back to work
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
1. Yes piracy is wrong

Why?
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jumbotron, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:13am

this is the same ol game of post data examination time lag and the pointless speculation thereafter.

combined with

the time lag of legislation is shorter than the time lag of data examination

equals =
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:20am

Re: Re:
Or the 1080p Blu-Ray rip of a move with a file size of 7K. No, that's not a virus.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:25am

Re: Re:
Really? All I ever downloaded were uninfected MP3s, same goes for Audiogalaxy (and FTP/IRC before that).
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Jeremy7600, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:27am

Re:
Equals one big fucking fail.
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Ima Fish (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:29am

Re: Re:
Kazaa was much much worse than WinMX for viruses and misnamed files.

I used WinMX as an example because, as far as I remember, it was the first P2P program that let you download the same file from multiple sources.
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PrometheeFeu (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:30am

"Our legal efforts served as an essential educational tool: Fans know far more now about copyright laws and the legal consequences of stealing music than ever before. Before initiating lawsuits in 2003, only 35 percent of people knew file-sharing on P2P was illegal; afterward, awareness grew to 70 percent."

I think he's right. Since people can't see anything wrong with file sharing, they all simply trusted their moral compass and did what we all know is right: They had something they could share without causing any pain to themselves or anyone and so they did. After all, we all reasoned that if what we are doing is ethical and reasonable, it must also be legal. Little did we know that a corrupt political process was at work here and had banned this perfectly normal activity. If it wasn't for how many lives the RIAA has destroyed through their lawsuits, we would all hear about copyright laws through those funny websites where you read that in some crappy little town in the middle of Nebraska, there is still a city ordinance on the books which prohibits wearing orange on the first Thursday of every month. We would all go double-check the existence of copyright law to make sure it's not just an absurd urban legend. Really, the RIAA has rendered us a service. They've exposed the corruption in Washington.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:30am

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
Mike doesn't solve it, of course

D'uh, why would he? It's not his job, of course.
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Overcast (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:35am

This is 100% true and I approve.

This also means there is no need for that one bill.. what was the name of it again SPOS? (Super Piece of Sh..)
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:36am

Re: Re: Re:
You better download it and run it just to be sure.
It could be the best zip type yet!
Don't know until you try, right?
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Overcast (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:37am

1. Yes piracy is wrong

Perhaps, but see pirates TOOK ships, gold, people and all that..

Today's supposed 'pirates' just copy stuff. If in 1600, a 'pirate' just copied the ships, people, and loot - it wouldn't have been an issue except for those that made big $$ off of claims of scarcity and such.. :O
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davnel (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:37am

They DON'T have control
Never did, and never will. To speculate otherwise is pure hubris. As far as I'm concerned, the media companies can continue in their present untenable path. Current technology has made them unnecessary. They will fail, as they should. Hopefuly, the electorate and large technology companies will prevent SOPA and it's ilk from becoming law.

Again, piracy exists because the media companies are not providing the goods in the manner the public wants. And don't give me that "Copying is Theft" crap. The original source still exists, nothing has been stolen. This is all about greed and avarice anyway. Poor media companies, they're losing their cash cows. Too bad.
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RadialSkid (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:50am

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
I'm not sure anyone here has ever argued that the RIAA is successful at anything. If so, they're wrong.

The only reason the RIAA is worth worrying about is due to the massive collateral damage their little hissy fits cause. I don't care about any of the music published on any of the labels they represent, nor any of the people involved with them. I do, however, worry about ever-increasing copyright terms, the Internet Archive being declared a "rogue site," and the spreading of propaganda.
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The Jester, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:53am

Time to lower the Jolly Roger
Trading media over the Internet is not 'piracy.' Piracy is an act of robbery or violence at sea. Trading media is copyright infringement. The most basic theory of 'theft' in US law includes depriving the rightful owner of their property. If they still have their property, it can't be theft. Even though the media companies have hornswaggled Congress and the Justice department into doing their job for them, copyright, patent and trademark infringement are civil offenses, not crimes.

I routinely download movies via bit torrent to supplement my legitimate Netflix and Hulu accounts. After viewing, my most common reaction is, 'Man, am I glad I didn't pay to watch that.' Let's face it, movies are a pig in a poke. Last week, my daughter and I saw Hugo in 3D in the theater. When filmmakers start making more movies like that, I will happily spend more time attending theatrical releases.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:54am

R.I.A.A.

Real Ignorant Asshats of America!

"Duh"
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Franklin G Ryzzo (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 11:22am

Re: Re: Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
Piracy is wrong because it involves stealing physical items through violent methods out on the high seas...

File sharing is just fine though ;)
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Grae (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:05pm

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
Why don't you get back to work, you IP welfare leech? You know what I call a man who insists he should be perpetually paid a lifetime + 70 years for each piece of work he's done? Fired.

I don't go to work every day and support my family just so you IP owning leeches can sit on your ass and not contribute to society, while collecting your welfare royalty checks and crying that you don't get paid enough for doing nothing. You're the real thieves here.
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gorehound (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:07pm

Re:
WinMX I remember that well. And those pesky little FTP Hidden Directories................haha
RIAA I so wish you would just die and make our lives easier.

Boycott all Big Content Now !
Fight SOPA/PIPA
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:10pm

Re:
Since the RIAA said piracy is under control, it must be so!
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Overcast (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:12pm

Boycott all Big Content Now !
Fight SOPA/PIPA

I buy plenty of DVD's and Music - if SOPA passes, I will be too scared to... so indeed - SOPA passes, I'm boycotting - I'll cut cable and quit buying DVD's - I'll just go the the library and 'pirate' content by checking out books and movies and then I'll 'un-pirate' when I return them.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:12pm

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
The point is, boy, that the RIAA had stated the battle is already WON!
So, why are they looking to nuke the 'Net?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:37pm

Re: Re: Re:
No, that's an article about a report that questions said report's validity due to not showing data or processes.

'What this report doesn't reveal is just how the researchers came to these conclusions. Unlike some recent objective research, this report is not transparent in any way.'
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ZeeBat (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:58pm

Re: Piracy is under control!
Yes, well, piracy may be under control but, certainly, you are not. Therefore, all current and future attempts at legalizing the tools necessary to control you will not only not be withdrawn but the urgency and frequency of these attempts will increase in fervor and scope until such time as you have been deemed to have been placed under control.

We will not tolerate the threat of a progressive, free-thinking and democratic global society.
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MM_Dandy (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 12:59pm

Wait, what?
File sharing on P2P is illegal?
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jupiterkansas (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 1:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
I suspect Shamalamadingdong's posts would have a more mysterious Twilight Zone feel to them, and $100 million wouldn't be nearly enough money for him to make a film.

Incidentally, I just watched "Red Cliff," the most expensive Chinese movie ever made. It cost $80 million. Hollywood could not have made it for less than $800 million. Perhaps that hints at the problem?
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MAJikMARCer (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 1:30pm

Correlation does not imply causation
This is some pretty serious PR (BS) speak here. They want to paint the lawsuits that they took up against suspected file downloaders, rather than targeting 'real' pirates as a good thing when in reality it has pertinently tainted the name of the RIAA. I bet most consumers didn't even know who they were 5-10 years ago. Now they know them as the people who will try to sue the pants off you if you even install a P2P application, regardless of your intent or action. That doesnt mean they have stopped any piracy, it just means now they know who to look out for.
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Adam J, 6 Dec 2011 @ 1:58pm

Like any two faced politician Lez Kennedy seems to be talking in circles. Unfortunately, most of the people concerned with this issue are educated and won't fall for circle talk.GG RIAA.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 2:18pm

I agree, piracy is under control. Why i haven't pirated since....well never mind about that, this is about you.

Since its under control, you can stop pushing these things to break the internet, right?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 2:59pm

Re:
Actually you are behind the curve, the industry already does that and they spend millions of dollars doing it, but somehow crowd sourced curation of the pirate catalog can get rid of fakes in minutes.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 3:02pm

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
Worked how?
To get more people aware that they could get stuff for free?
Yep that worked wonders.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 3:06pm

Re: Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
1. Yes piracy is wrong

Why?
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jumbotron, 6 Dec 2011 @ 6:20pm

the copying of anything is still not theft. Never was.

the coying of files is still not piracy in any sense except imagination.

I believe these are legal definitions not related to current rhetoric.

of course "pirate" must be an acronym that does not have anything to do with piracy...
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TtfnJohn (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 6:48pm

Re: Mike wants out-of-control piracy, upset by contrary claims.
Except you think that infringement is wildly out of control every time big media says it is, like when they buy politicians.
If the RIAA repeats this, you'll fall in line as you always do and claim it's all under control.

Yes, one could say the RIAA has increased awareness of copyright and that it's valid (for now) for three generations (a generation is measured as 20 years) where the creator and his/her children and other heirs get to sit back and wallow in all that money the publisher never paid them because the budget to promote, distribute and print the book suddenly ended up costing more than the NASA manned mission to Mars will while doing nothing to prove whether or not zero gravity sex is or isn't fun.

And it's not Mike's problem, or mine, to solve the RIAA's problems for them. That part is real simple. In a free market it's adapt or die. Kinda like evolution, right? Not a thing to do with copyright or that imaginary $100 million movie you want to make. It's not your problem either. But as you want to make it yours fill your boots.

Out of one side of their mouths the RIAA claims that file sharing is killing them, killing their industry and turning artists into paupers (as if they give a tinker's damn about artists) and out of the other side they're now claiming that it's all under control, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, the grass is growing (the grass they're smoking anyway). everyone is dancing in the pile of money they're making and the world is just a wonderful place.

Why then SOPA and IP Protect and what's the point in them if the RIAA has solved the problem?

Just wondering.
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DataShade (profile), 6 Dec 2011 @ 7:16pm

Re: This sounds familiar....
Exactly! Piracy *was* under control, it's obviously in its last throes, but our duty is clear: we must stay the course, by committing to a surge.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2011 @ 8:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
I was unable to find any direct quote from the RIAA that suggested they claimed that had anything "under control". That would appear to be the headline writer at work, nothing more.
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PaulT (profile), 7 Dec 2011 @ 1:22am

"There have been studies in the past about how education campaigns telling people not to do something will often increase that action."

a.k.a. what everyone who has ever been 5 years old knows, and gets reminded of when they have their own children. Do they really need studies to tell them the blindingly obvious?

"Where there was virtually no legal digital market before the lawsuits... there are more than 400 licensed digital services worldwide, compared with fewer than 50 in 2003"

Christ... do you think that maybe licencing legal services and allowing them to sell the product the customer wants might have been the relevant factor here and not the lawsuits?

They're identifying the things they did right, then pretending that the things they did utterly wrong were responsible for the results.
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IronM@sk, 7 Dec 2011 @ 1:42am

Re: Re: Re:
Don't forget BearShare. Removed that virus of a tonne of PCs in my day.
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IronM@sk, 7 Dec 2011 @ 1:44am

Fixed that for you...
Before initiating lawsuits in 2003, only 35 percent of people knew about file-sharing on P2P; afterward, awareness grew to 70 percent. ~ FTFY
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Quartz, 7 Dec 2011 @ 2:03am

WinMX Is still operating so forgive me for not being further impressed with your poor view of its fine offerings.
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Andrew (profile), 7 Dec 2011 @ 10:42am

Why do they blame the transfer method
File sharing, depending on what is file shared is not illegal as far as I see. I really wish they would stop demonising the method of transfer.

I happen to think alot of these methods to transfer files are pretty cool and have real world applications. Ask anyone about Torrents or P2P and their first answer will be its illegal.
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balaknair (profile), 8 Dec 2011 @ 8:47am

Re: Time to lower the Jolly Roger
"The most basic theory of 'theft' in US law includes depriving the rightful owner of their property. If they still have their property, it can't be theft."

What the copyright mafia is claiming was stolen is the 'potential income'(aka imaginary money) you 'stole' from them when you downloaded the mp3. That's the whole point of the IP lobbying machine- make people believe that their IP(Imaginary Property) is worth the same as tangible goods, so a downloaded album should cost the same as a CD with the album on it.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 8 Dec 2011 @ 1:24pm

Re: Re: Time to lower the Jolly Roger
Except you can't resell an mp3 if you don't like it the way you can with a CD.
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