RIAA Whines That Google Won't Let It Program Google's Search Algorithm

from the it-must-be-easy-when-you-see-the-world-that-way dept

Wed, Dec 21st 2011 11:22am — Mike Masnick

There's been some discussion about the RIAA's ridiculous report card on Google's "progress" in dealing with infringement. Remember, a year ago, Google promised to take steps to appease the RIAA, even though it wasn't required to under the law. Both Ars Technica and TorrentFreak have good coverage of the ridiculousness of the report card, but I wanted to dive into a few of the specific claims, which just seem laughable. Let's start with the really ridiculous claim that Google isn't doing enough to remove search terms from "autocomplete." As we noted at the time of Google's announcement, this seemed silly and pointless. How would you figure out what words to choose? For example, 10 years ago, the industry would be upset about mp3 -- but now everyone sells unencrypted mp3s. And, indeed, the RIAA seems to believe that certain words that aren't illegal should be associated with infringement:

Autocomplete still suggests terms associated with piracy when a user is searching for a piece of music or a movie. For example, when �lady gaga mp3� is typed into the search bar, autocomplete directs a user to choose �lady gaga mp3 free� or �lady gaga mp3 download,�

Now that's interesting. I didn't realize that "free" and "download" were illegal terms. Especially since Lady Gaga and her manager have both expressed interest in giving away her music for free. It seems that the RIAA's real complaint is that the end result of the searches still points people to some sites that offer infringing works. But that's a totally different complaint. Google could censor the words "free" and "download" and within hours people involved in infringement would come up with alternative words.

The RIAA then goes totally off the rails, insisting that Google needs to pre-screen every mobile app for Android. Sure, Apple does this, but it's why there are so many complaints from iPhone developers. The whole point of Google's more open system is to allow more open innovation. We recognize that anything "open" is horrific to RIAA-types, but for those of us who recognize how innovation works, we'd prefer that Google continue to allow such innovation, rather than putting up a big wall just because the RIAA is too clueless to adapt. It's ridiculously presumptive for the RIAA to presume that it has the right to dictate a big part of Google's setup just to please the RIAA.

Finally, the RIAA whines that Google won't listen to its own suggestions for how Google's algorithm should work.

We don�t understand why Google can�t take delisting notices for a site into account in determining rankings if it uses this information in its other copyright policy activities.

Funny, but I also don't think that the RIAA listens to Google's suggestions on how their labels should sign bands. Why should the RIAA get to determine how Google's algorithm should work?

In the end, this whole thing is a ridiculously obnoxious attempt by the RIAA to pretend that Google "isn't doing enough" when the company already goes significantly beyond what is required under the law (and now generates significant income for the RIAA's labels through things like YouTube's monetization scheme).

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Filed Under: copyright, dmca
Companies: google, riaa

62 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:37am

Because it's hard, cant someone else do the work for us wah wah. Call a wambulance
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anonymous, 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:40am

why should Google or anyone else do anything at all? the RIAA itself does very little, if anything to help itself, relying entirely on others, at their own expense, to do the 'internet policing' for it. what the RIAA wants is no sites on the 'net unless previously 'ok'd' by them, no search terms allowed unless 'ok'd' by them and no sales of any sort unless 'ok'd' by them. basically, complete control of something that, as usual, they have no right or claim to.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:44am

Let's be reasonable.
You wouldn't download a car, would you?
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Hephaestus (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:45am

Re: Let's be reasonable.
In a fucking instant.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:46am

Re: Let's be reasonable.
I have downloaded some for TORCS.
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Hephaestus (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:46am

Re: Let's be reasonable.
In a fucking instant. That's why I am building a 3d printer.
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DannyB (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:47am

Re: Let's be reasonable.
I can't download a car right now because Dominoes is busy faxing me a Pizza. My Fax and Modem both can't be on the phone at the same time.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:48am

In the RIAA's perfect world every item that shows up in a search result would have a 'censor' or 'delist' button that anyone could click on. Just 1 click would remove that search result from the search engine for everyone forever.

The RIAA is upset that the closest anyone gives them to that is the option to vote up or down individual search results.
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Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:50am

Re: Let's be reasonable.
I already did
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:56am

The RIAA's arrogance and sense of entitlement is astonishing. They seem to genuinely believe that the world revolves (or should revolve) around them and the recording industry they represent. An individual displaying the same behavior would likely be diagnosed as having narcissistic personality disorder.

Here's a definition from healthline.com - "Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which there is an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with one's self."

P.S. Google made HUGE a mistake when they gave in one iota more than the law demanded.
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DannyB (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 11:57am

Re:
I'm appalled you would think the RIAA would want Google to add Censor and Delist buttons next to search results.

It is untrue I tell you!

The RIAA would want Arrest and Jail buttons.
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mischab1, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:02pm

So I went and read the RIAA's report card. I about choked when I saw them complaining that Google should "Stop the Self-Serving Alarmist Rhetoric and Engage in Constructive Dialogue" Do they not recognize their own face when they look at it in the mirror?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:04pm

I ditched Google search anyway. I primarily use DuckDuckGo now, and only resort to Google when I am really desperate. DuckDuckGo has a %&*#-load of utilities built into it beyond simple search. If you are a programmer, I highly recommend it.

Here's a link:

http://duckduckgo.com/
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Don, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:04pm

Google should delist the RIAA and MIAA
I don't understand why Google hasn't blocked any searches that return the RIAA or MIAA as a search result.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:04pm

Re: Let's be reasonable.
If i could i would download EVERYTHING!!! It is the 21st Century, where is my replicator?
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Kevin H (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:06pm

Re: Re:
No, they just want a money button. Much like an ATM with no pin code required.
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Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:08pm

Re: Re: Let's be reasonable.
Don't worry, it is on its way....
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Kevin H (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:10pm

Re: Google should delist the RIAA and MIAA
that would be what they want in reverse. Thereby proving that it could be done.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:13pm

Re: Rubber Ducky
Thanks, I'll check that out.
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Colin, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:14pm

Why can't you post comments on their blog? That's disheartening. It's almost like they don't want people calling them out on stuff...but that couldn't possibly be it...
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:21pm

Re:
Not anyone. It would have to be buttons only they (and maybe fellow accomplices like the MPAA) could use.

I mean, if anyone could use it, how fast do you think it would take for someone to delist them?
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Loki, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:23pm

Re:
Coming from the RIAA, that is one of the funniest statement I've read in a long long time.
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el_segfaulto (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Let's be reasonable.
I'm waiting for my last shipment of parts to get in for my Prusa Mendel. And yes...I would also download a car.
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AdamBv1 (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:32pm

Re: Let's be reasonable.
Janeway would if she had a big enough replicator, shes already put barista's out of a job by pirating her coffee.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3444501/Static/JanewayCoffee.jpg
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ervserver (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:33pm

re
HAHAHA that reads like a grade school report card, complete with whiny teacher complaining about your bratty kid
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Another AC, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:36pm

Re:
Since duckduckgo is powered by Bing, you could just go there too :)
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Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Let's be reasonable.
Ah, a fellow reprap enthusiast I see. I have a Huxley myself. Making a Prusa soon.
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Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:41pm

Re: Re:
actually, duckduckgo compiles its results from 50 sources, including Bing and Google. So no, its not a bing search engine.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:46pm

Re: Let's be reasonable.
http://funpics.classicfun.ws/index.php/Funpics/You-Wouldn-t-Download-A-Car
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:48pm

Give 'em an inch...
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:52pm

Re:
Do they not recognize their own face when they look at it in the mirror?

They don't have reflections.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 12:56pm

Hey, as long as auto-complete still knows 'free nelson mandela mp3', Google clearly isn't doing enough.
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The Logician (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:00pm

Here's a definition from healthline.com - "Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which there is an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with one's self."

I believe that definition could be ascribed to most individuals in Hollywood and the entertainment industry, as well as most politicians and many business executives.
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CJ (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:08pm

Stop whining RIAA
I don't know why the RIAA whines so much they have their lobbyist sitting in congress bowing to their every word. Hell if I could get congress to bow to me I would be happy as hell.
/s
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The Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:22pm

Remove ALL References
Google should remove all references to any big label music for a week or maybe a day just to show the big labels how poorly the music business would fair without Google's help. The real gatekeepers, in our modern age, is in fact Google. A website without a presence, whether it exists or not, has not presence.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:35pm

Re: Re:
Or cast shadows? :)
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:36pm

Re: Re: Re:
I usually use Dogpile but I'll take a look. Thanks.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:38pm

Re: Remove ALL References
The coward got it right. If the RIAA has a problem with the searches Mike listed, just remove any search with Lady Gaga in it. All of them.

This reminds me of the Belgian case (was that several months ago), where Newspapers got a court order removing links, so Google removed all references to their content. They were pleading to get that fixed within days.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:42pm

Re:
Not to mention a number of regular commenters on this site.

I do not necessarily exclude myself, but that's because I'm so damn important!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZmCJUSC6g
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Colin, 21 Dec 2011 @ 1:59pm

Re:
...and they'll bend you over and shove that inch as far into you as they can?
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Randy, 21 Dec 2011 @ 2:12pm

Re: Re: Remove ALL References
Here is a great article about it...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110718/04055115139/newspapers-win-suit-against-google-ge t-their-wish-to-be-delisted-then-complain.shtml

It would be a perfect idea to do to the RIAA associated companies. However, I think that the long term ramifications of that actions would be worse than initial joy and satisfaction. I can see wailing and gnashing of teeth in Congress as paid-for congressmen/women cry about "how large Google is" and "it must be broken up", etc. etc.

Still one can dream, though.

Randy
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re: Let's be reasonable.
"In a fucking instant."

Your internet connection must kick ass. Mine would take several days.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 2:25pm

And, indeed, the RIAA seems to believe that certain words that aren't illegal should be associated with infringement:

Where can I find this list of illegal words.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 2:51pm

the only way they will be happy is when every link on the internet points to their payment processor page.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 3:02pm

Re:
I use duckduckgo.com, too. They even have an android app!
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Fu Man Dew, 21 Dec 2011 @ 3:23pm

Nanoseconds lulz
"More work needs to be done by a company built on its ability to respond to search requests within nanoseconds." I know Google is fast, but nanoseconds? Seriously?

I think I sense some sarcasm coming from the RIAA, and everybody knows that sarcasm is angers ugly cousin.
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PRMan, 21 Dec 2011 @ 4:51pm

Re: Google should delist the RIAA and MIAA
"I don't understand why Google hasn't bought them all with a leverage buyout just to shut them up already.

FTFY
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2011 @ 5:03pm

Android
> The RIAA then goes totally off the rails, insisting that Google needs to pre-screen every mobile app for Android.

Even if they did, Google's Market is not the only "app store" for Android. Android was designed to allow for alternative "app stores", and in fact there are several of them. For instance, see http://f-droid.org/, which specializes in FOSS software. I saw one somewhere which specialized in pornographic applications, which Google does not allow in its Market. And so on.

And even if every "app store" for Android pre-screened its applications, you do not need to use any "app store". Again, go to the F-Droid website and scroll to the bottom. You will see a QR code, which is a direct link to an Android application. You can either click on the link on your Android phone, or use a barcode scanner application to load the link. It downloads and installs directly, without involving the Market or any other "app store" at all.
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Franklin G Ryzzo (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 5:33pm

Re:
Duckduckgo.com FTW!

It's the default search engine on all my machines and becomes the default search engine on any machine I touch ;)

I'm kind of a fan of Scroogle.org as well, but duckduckgo has a duck so it's better because ducks are delicious!
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TtfnJohn (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 10:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Let's be reasonable.
I just download the complete plans, run that through my 3D printer and a few hours later I'm off in a spanking new Ferrari :)
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TtfnJohn (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 10:17pm

Re:
All 12 volumes of the abridged OED.

Start at A and work your way to Z. Include all cross references to dead or archaic languages.

You'll ALMOST be there.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 10:26pm

Re: Android
Well, you see, the RIAA is so hung up on restrictive copyright and control (as in total control freaks) that they have no idea what open source software is, what it means or that would mean there's more than one "app" "store" or that Android will run on a host of more devices than just a telephone. Just recomplile and go. Fix the inevitable bugs, then recompile and go again and you can jail break your smart meter the power company thrust on you complete with a nifty GUI!
That would, of course, make SourceForge a pirate site but I'm sure the RIAA and MPAA consider that it is or at least potentially is. Look at all the stuff there that might just possibly, maybe, could be or might be used for piracy if someone adds a few lines of code!!!
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noko, 22 Dec 2011 @ 1:11am

Re: Re: Google should delist the RIAA and MIAA
Buying out failing companies is charity towards the top dogs in said company. Buying those guys out would only encourage other failing companies to act as terrible as possible so they can have their turn getting bought out of trouble. And their CEOs would make away with the money.
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Dodongo, 22 Dec 2011 @ 1:48am

Re: Re: Remove ALL References
The issue of removing all references to Lady Gaga is that it would punish Lady Gaga, not RIAA. It would just give RIAA a higher ground to stand when they lie to artists about how the artists need them to be seen.
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TheSmokingGNU (profile), 22 Dec 2011 @ 2:32am

Ugh!
Things like this make me despair for the future. I wish more people realized that "piracy" is the new "terrorist" of buzzwords. They'll make a big fuss over it, be made to look like idiots, and come up with a new word... possibly "ponies" or "nanomachines" if you look at what they've freaked out about lately (the point being EVERYTHING. They've gone bananas over everything lately, so who knows what's next?) Also, I've just copyrighted this post, so no reposting or I'll get the government on your ass! :P
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anonymous, 22 Dec 2011 @ 3:29am

Re: Let's be reasonable.
F U I would if I could
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2011 @ 4:14am

R.I.A.A.

Real Ignorant Asshats of America
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Jeremy Lyman (profile), 22 Dec 2011 @ 5:47am

Finally some honesty.
Hey, at least they've started admitting that they don't understand things.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2011 @ 8:19am

Re: Nanoseconds lulz
actually, anger is sarcasms angry and ugly cousin
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tsavory (profile), 22 Dec 2011 @ 4:28pm

Re: Re: Android
I won't point out what all on SourceForge can end up being labeled as infringing and become targets later on. Those who know what the SOPA and PIPA paths head towards can already see it coming and those that can't never will.(till its hits them in the face)
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Christopher, 23 Dec 2011 @ 7:24pm

Keywords in RIAA's complaint: "We don't understand"
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Invisible_Jester89, 2 Jan 2012 @ 5:11pm

"Lady Gaga and her manager have expressed interest in giving away her music for free."

Yet another reason why, regardless of what you think about the woman's musical talent, Lady Gaga is awesome.

If you're so committed to illogical claims, misinformation, and misunderstanding, RIAA, why don't you marry them?
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