Please Keep The ACTA Debate Fact-Based
from the good-points dept
As we noted in our ACTA primer, there appeared to be a lot of misinformation spreading about the agreement -- which many people were comparing to SOPA/PIPA. While we appreciated that folks who had become interested in SOPA/PIPA were turning their attention to the (very problematic) ACTA, it didn't do anyone any good to spread misinformation. Tim Lee, over at Ars Technica, has taken it up a notch by putting together a very good debunking of some of the exaggerated statements that people are making against ACTA. There are plenty of serious problems with ACTA -- but it doesn't help if those opposed to ACTA are spreading misinformation. It merely aids ACTA supporters in their attempts to claim, incorrectly, that all of the opposition is ill-informed. So, please, to those out there working hard against ACTA, read the details carefully and focus on the real problems.
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So?
I agree that we should not lie or distort what ACTA is, but I also say bring on the hype like only the internet can. I understand that we should not sink to the levels of Hades that the MPAA/RIAA et al does but really in the end all I care about is that we beat them back at ever turn until they are forced to come begging to us the consumers for a way to do what we really want. Which is get the content we want, how we want, at the time we want for a reasonable price without being hassled.
That is all we want. I am willing to pay but only for that which I feel I am getting my monies worth.
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Re: So?
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Re: So?
They would lie and cheat to pass ACTA--and have provably already done so.
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Re: So?
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Re: So?
So they just need to go down. Period.
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Re: So?
What are you talking about? Piracy does cost the economy billions of dollars a day!
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Re: Re: So?
Piracy does cost but it also helps. Read more Rhetoric less.
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Then I have this mental image of Edgar Allan Poe being sarcastically monstrous.
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Re: So?
Give a Government an inch and eventually they will take a mile !!!
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Re: So?
We see this all the time with idiot news networks. On a debate with a scientist, they'll bring in "Bob the self-appointed dissident with no actual training" and give each "side" the same opportunity.
If person A says "piracy is costing us $6B per year!", and person B says "No, piracy is costing you $0 per year" *and then proves it*, person C will ignore the proof and infer that piracy is costing somewhere between 0 and 6B.
If the pro-ACTA people are lying, we can't just say "oh, they're lying, here's the truth", we need to produce "oh, they're lying, and it's *the exact opposite of what they say*".
I wish that we could win this with the truth, but it's just not the case.
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Re: So?
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Re: So?
Because it's like wrestling with a pig - you both get dirty but the pig likes it.
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Piracy Supporters Mantra
Only google, thepiratebay, Chief Piracy Apologist Rags Techdirt and Ars Technica (evidenced by the fact they both have "Tech" in their names) and Kim Dotcom would want a fact based debate about ACTA.
You've finally revealed your true stripes for all to see.
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Re: Piracy Supporters Mantra
it'll only confuse people.
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Re: Piracy Supporters Mantra
If it is, well played sir!!
If it isn't, not so well played sir!!!
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Re: Re: Piracy Supporters Mantra
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Re: Please Keep The ACTA Debate Fact-Based
The US Government's own study on the subject found that the entertainment industry's facts and figures were made up out of thin air, with no basis in reality. And the Swiss government's recent study on the matter found that the net effect of piracy on the content industry is actually helpful, rather than harmful. And nobody is reporting this stuff!
There's no better way to reach a bad conclusion than starting with a false premise. As long as we keep swallowing the line about "something needs to be done to protect American intellectual property," these sorts of laws will keep popping up. So let's start focusing on the facts instead, please, and maybe we can find a way to keep what remains of our freedom?
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Re: Re: Please Keep The ACTA Debate Fact-Based
If not, then "American intellectual property" can go die in a hypocritical douchebag fire.
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Re: Re: Re: Please Keep The ACTA Debate Fact-Based
Seems both Wikipedia and IMDB.com already credit Kurosawa. However, it is a Western rewrite of Shichinin no Samurai. Saying it was 'stolen' might be a little farfetched, though credit should be given where due.
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Re:
as just about every country in the EU does what it wants, not what is actually agreed by the EU Parliament or EUCJ, your guess is as good as anybody's
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Fact based? Hah
I think that the forces that unleashed this Internet Mob Rule will eventually rue the day because mobs turn as they turned on Robespierre.
The fact is that a government can't allow people to break the laws simply by connecting to a server outside of the country. It's just too easy to connect to a server outside the country these days and so it makes the laws meaningless.
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Re: Fact based? Hah
... oh wait, you were serious?
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Re: Fact based? Hah
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Re: Re: Fact based? Hah
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I'll revise:
There are laws on the books which are neither followed nor enforced--ergo "meaningless". Examples: anti-swearing laws, anti-fornication laws, anti-sodomy laws, anti-bananas in church, illegal icecream in pocket, illegal horse in court, illegal alligator leashed to telephone pole, etc, there's tons of them.
Those laws which are not followed but enforcement is attempted range from annoyances to injustices... and those are the ones which the public eventually moves to get fixed. Examples: Marijuana, DVD ripping, media sharing, speeding, cell-phone while driving... There's likely many more examples if anybody wants to chime in.
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Re: Re: Re: Fact based? Hah
Probably government's greatest gift to organized crime in the history of civilization.
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Re: Fact based? Hah
So, you still refuse to listen to the actual points raised against SOPA, and cling to lying about people you disagree with? Pathetic. Predictable, but pathetic.
"It's just too easy to connect to a server outside the country these days and so it makes the laws meaningless."
Oooh... you're almost getting it. Now, if only you'd support the industry changing to make this "problem" meaningless instead of supporting something that can only have negative effects on free speech and chilling effects on future innovation - intended or not - and maybe you'll finally understand.
One day, perhaps.
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Re: Fact based? Hah
Your corner stone is wrong. What you're thinking about is the USA's constitution that says the government can't censor, but private parties may.
The problem SOPA/etc present is one private party wielding government power to censor another private party against their will.
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Not so, uninformed can change legislation in bad ways
Take the debate on Obama's healthcare bill. Some opponents at one point spread the lie that 'death panels' would be created to decide who would live and die.
Where did they get such a lie from? A provision in the law to authorize medicare to compensate doctors for helping patients write a living will. A living will would say what to do if you're stuck in a hospital bed for months unable to wake up/communicate/think for yourself anymore with no hope of recovery according to doctors.
Examples of what can happen without a living will are the Terri Schiavo mess, where the family spent a bunch of time and money suing each other and the hospital when fighting over her fate, because there was no living will. Each side argued that what they wanted is what Terri would have wanted. Terri couldn't say otherwise, being pretty much brain dead.
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Re: Not so, uninformed can change legislation in bad ways
and
But on Dec. 3, the Obama administration seemingly flouted the will of Congress by issuing a new Medicare regulation detailing "voluntary advance care planning" that is to be included during patients' annual checkups. The regulation aimed at the aged "may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment,"
Where did they get such a lie from? - The New York Times reported.
"A provision in the law to authorize medicare to compensate doctors for helping patients write a living will." - Outright lie.
in addition,
Seniors appear to be a major target for precious resources under the Obama healthcare plan. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Obama plan cuts nearly $500 billion in Medicare benefits to seniors as the federal government adds 30 million uninsured Americans to private and public healthcare systems.
“The chronically ill and those towards the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here . . . there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place,” he said. - Dr. Donald Berwick, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
Lastly:
read it yourself
http://housedocs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
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Debunking the EU Commission's Lies About ACTA
Paris, January 30th, 2012 – The EU Commission is engaging in an all-out offensive to portray ACTA as normal trade agreement harmless to fundamental rights or access to knowledge. In several published documents, the Commission's attempts to impose ACTA onto the EU Parliament while silencing legitimate criticism. But these misrepresentations don't resist scrutiny.
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Re:
Copyright laws have become deeply one sided in favor of creators because you've never had powerful industries willing to fight back. Let SOPA be your warning: The masses are tired of being abused by a lack of protections for fair use, blatant rent-seeking, secret negotiations, shameless cronyism, effectively infinite copyright term lengths, deep hypocrisy regarding artist compensation, and a fundamental lack of respect towards your customers.
If the Pirate Bay is giving the RIAA/MPAA a hard time, I can't help but think this is karma catching up to them. Your industry's horrible public relation problems are well earned.
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FTFY
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His tactics haven't changed. He pretends that he's spreading the truth while his opponents are only lying. He complains that the other side can't prove their suppositions when he can't prove his own. He pretends like it's about innovation and censorship when really it's about protecting his pirate friends. Same old, same old, I'm afraid.
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I love it
Anonymous Coward, Jan 31st, 2012 @ 8:14am
"spread the censorship lie" Yeah OK AC.
If ACTA is passed, studio execs will be allowed to behead children and eat their entrails. Its true go see for yourself.
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Re:
I guess we could debate with our facts/truths (based on logic/studies/and your very words) But you will bring... Chris Dodd? yea that screams facts and logic...
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European parliament
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Heck there are people in the US protesting ACTA to not be signed, it already was.
If anything I blame the innacuracies on the way it was conducted and all the confusion that will spread among people, the government didn't do its job to inform and educate people and now it is time to pay the price for hiding things.
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Not a SOPA
What I most do not like about ACTA, beyond the attempted secrecy, is reflected by TPP (son of ACTA). When even before ACTA has passed they are already trying to chip away and get more through.
Also since I know about anti-circulation technology then are they including the common "fair use" I see within this?
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So if in one hand the public is looking at the worst case scenario and people say that is innacurate because is highly unlikely that is just as wrong.
Scientists in the UK were criticized for not explaining to the public that mad cow disease was very unlikely to be transmitted to humans by consumption, and when people died of it science took a credibility hit, just as scientists now in Italy are being judge to see if they can be hold responsible for what they told the public about earthquakes where they said it would not happen, what they failed to mention was that the low probability of happening was not to mean impossible.
The same way I feel that even though some points that people keep using are wrong and there are those, mostly if you look at the worst case scenario possible they are correct.
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Notably, as Ars hints, ACTA, and TPP, are attempts to impose western based intellectual property values on countries that dont' share them. The Third World and, perhaps more important, the BRIC countries. Far be it from me to suggest imperialism but.....
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Simple as that.
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