How Being More Open, Human And Awesome Can Save Anyone Worried About Making Money In Entertainment

from the make-it-happen dept

Mon, Feb 13th 2012 8:40am — Mike Masnick

I've been pretty busy traveling and appearing at various conferences over the last month, including Midem, where I released our latest research report, The Sky is Rising!. I did so with a quick ten-minute presentation about both the state of the industry... as well as the fact that the challenges for anyone in the entertainment industry can be met by being more open, more human and (most of all) more awesome: It's basically a follow-up presentation to my 2009 presentation, which introduced the Connect with Fans + Reason to Buy formula. Either way, it was fun to be back on the Midem stage, and I was thrilled with the overall response to the presentation. I heard from a lot of folks at the show about how much they liked it and how it gave them a good framework for building out their efforts as artists or as labels. It's always fun to be at Midem and talk to people on the ground about what they're seeing in the industry as well. Two years ago, I had thought that perhaps the industry had reached the bargaining stage, but I may have been wrong (or the five stages of grief aren't really applicable here). There wasn't nearly as much talk about "evil piracy" at this year's Midem... but there was plenty of lashing out about "evil Google" and how it was to blame for everything. If anything, it seemed to be a slip back into the "anger" stage. As we've explained time and time again, this anger seems entirely misdirected.

So it was nice to see so many people at Midem respond positively to my "totally positive" message about where some key opportunities were, by having them focus on how being more awesome to fans and treating them as human really has amazing results.

Separately, while I was at Midem I also did a much more technical "Midem Academy" session that was designed to be a hands-on interactive discussion about specific strategies for alternative business models that don't rely on copyright. That session was 50 minutes long and didn't have the same "entertainment" value, as I was told I had to use their limited Powerpoint format, rather than do my typical style (as seen above). Still, I quite enjoyed that discussion, and ended up spending almost as much time as we spent in the session talking to people and answering questions after the session. For some reason a lot of people were shy to ask questions to the whole group, but wanted to chat afterwards. There was also a cool "open table" session I did at "Direct2Fan Camp" at Midem, where I got to talk with a bunch of folks who were interested in new business models. That was a lot of fun.

Finally, a couple weeks before that, I was in Washington DC for the Congressional Internet Caucus' State of the Net event, where there was a panel discussion/debate over SOPA, which was recently put online as well. That panel has myself and Steve Crocker (head of ICANN) talking about problems with SOPA/PIPA... and the MPAA's Paul Brigner and the US Chamber of Commerce's Steve Tepp defending SOPA. The panel may seem out-of-date, but it actually took place the day before the mass internet blackouts that effectively killed the bills. So, when this discussion happened, the bills (even in reduced form, without DNS issues) were still very much alive. At this point, the debate might be more interesting in a historical context, rather than a present one: Either way the discussion was also fun (and, at times, a little heated). I also found it kind of amusing that we were told that there were to be no "opening speeches," and then everyone gave an opening speech. I don't know if it's a DC thing or what, but I had to create an "opening speech" on the fly, though I tried to keep it short.

Either way, it was great to meet many Techdirt community members around the globe at these various events as well, and I hope to see more of you at future events.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

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Filed Under: awesome, human, louis ck, midem, open, sky is rising, techdirt feature

64 Comments

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silverscarcat (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:06am

That's awesome, Mike.

That probably won't convince the old guard about stuff, but maybe the next leader will finally understand and change the business model.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:09am

See the gutter glitter fallin' from Paul Brigner's right nostril?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:43am

But this only works for humans!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 10:00am

Mike, I love you and I love the site, but seriously get a new barber.
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Hephaestus (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 10:07am

That guy from the USTR said nothing but the same talking points over and over. I do not know what was worse, the subtle body language cues that said he was being untruthful, or the glare off his head.
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Liz (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 10:13am

Re:
The glare off of his head was to distract you from the rest of his body language.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 10:24am

What is the most impressive Mike is that you truly seem to believe the crap you spew.
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moronnorom (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 10:33am

Re:
RING RING

Hello? Yes, hang on.

Hey AC, it's Irony on the phone, they want to speak to you.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 11:13am

Re: Re:
My crap isn't based on wishful thinking, or in supporting illegal activities (such as piracy).
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TDR, 13 Feb 2012 @ 11:22am

Re:
I think you're just jealous, AC 7, cause Mike does work that any decent human being would be proud of and isn't afraid to stand up to stubborn weasels like you who are more myopic than Mr. Magoo. Helen Keller could see better than you.
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E. Zachary Knight (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 11:35am

Re: Re: Re:
My crap

Says it all right there. You spew nothing but crap. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 11:41am

Re: Re: Re:
No, its from your unsubstantiated-moral-high-ground-bullshit that has no reference in the real world. Of course if you believe it in your heart of hearts it must be true, also you know how everyone in the world lives and the reasoning for all their actions because you are the center of the universe.
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The eejit (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: Re:
Wow, wishful thinking like the people from the original Star Wars films getting their residuals?

Wishful thinking like having to sue to get your contractually-obliged royalties?

Wishful thinking like IP having a dual-purpose of protecting the artists and the public?

Supporting illegal activites like drug-dealing, prostitution and assault?

Because the first three have all been reported upon and corroborated, and the last one Hollywood does on a regular basis.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 12:36pm

Re:
Or Rogaine.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 12:36pm

I couldn't sit through a hour of that. Did anyone ask Bergman to support his claim that "something must be done about piracy for the good of the economy .... "?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 12:37pm

Re:
What is the most impressive Mike is that you truly seem to believe the crap you spew.

hahahahaha...
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 12:38pm

Re:
What is the most impressive Mike is that you truly seem to believe the crap you spew.

hahahahaha...
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: Re:
My crap isn't based on wishful thinking, or in supporting illegal activities (such as piracy).

You know, what is the most impressive is that you truly seem to believe the crap you spew.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 1:01pm

Re:
So did the so-called Software-"Engineer"-turned-lawyer and worse, Steve Tepp.

That's even more impressive, because he believes it like it was true. Steve is intentionally convoluting counterfeiting items that affect people's health with copyright infringement, which has ZERO impact on users lives (ie: people who download the material).
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Nigel (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 1:23pm

Sheer Awsomeness
Good stuff Mike. I can't fathom how you sat next to Steve Tepp for an hour without hitting him over the head with your notes.

Nigel
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 1:31pm

Re: Sheer Awsomeness
Tepp was very cocky wasn't he, thinking his logic is so solid, Mike can't help to laugh at such behaviour.
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Lowestofthekeys, 13 Feb 2012 @ 1:49pm

Third video
In the book "On Bullshit" by Harry Frankfurt, he makes an insight into the methods of politicians and why their bullshit is so compelling.

He sums it all up by saying the difference between lying and bullshitting, (and, hence why bullshitting is so much more powerful) is that people who bullshit truly believe to a degree that what they are talking about is true.

You can see that attitude in so many politicians (especialy with all the recent news surrounding SOPA)and even in how some of the people in that third video try to defend SOPA.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 2:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Wow, wishful thinking like the people from the original Star Wars films getting their residuals?"

They signed stupid contracts, blame their lawyers and agents, not the film maker.

"Wishful thinking like having to sue to get your contractually-obliged royalties?"

Ever notice is takes these people years to even wake up and realize they MIGHT have some due? Hmmmm

"Supporting illegal activites like drug-dealing, prostitution and assault?"

Would you like to state specific cases, or are you just slandering the industry as a whole?

None of these of course have anything to do with Mike's propaganda style speech. You know what the rapid fire images are for? They are there to make it so you don't have time to think about the content, because you are too busy try to assimilate things in two streams at the same time. The images actually get in your way of anything beyond superficial understanding, which makes it more likely that you will have a favorable view of the presenter. Basically, your brain stops thinking, and just absorbs.

It's why when, limited to a more normal presentation format, Mike's deal pretty much falls apart. When people actually listen to the words and try to think about the ideas, they realize he is battier than a dark cave.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nice to see that you completely ignored the "Wishful thinking like IP having a dual-purpose of protecting the artists and the public?" question.

As for the rapid fire images argument, it would make sense if you were actually looking at them. His "propaganda" as you put it assumes you're actually viewing the presentation and not listening. Run the video in a different tab and see if there's any difference.

If you still don't understand his argument, chances are you weren't willing to listen or understand the other side to begin with.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 2:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I have actually done the test, and without images, his stuff makes a lot less sense. Paying attention to the actual arguments, and not a series of slides (often done to create amusement or distraction) really does change the deal.

The presentation was given WITH the slides. Later, without the visual tricks (and depending only on a limited powerpoint display) his discussion didn't go over nearly as well.

Basically, when people start concentrating on the idea and not the presentation, the suddenly come up with a whole bunch more reasons NOT to agree.

I have taken the time to understand the other side. It comes down to something sort of like Reagan's Voodoo Economics. A wonderful theory that some support, but which shows little if any practical application. It "works" at various times if you either zoom in on a single item, or stand so far back that you cannot tell what is really causing the good.

It all comes back to "the best business model wins", and that the "new business model" people only have a hope (small one) when the incumbents are hobbled by widespread piracy.
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Watchit (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 3:49pm

Can't get to overseas websites?
I love how in the debate they kept saying "We need this bill because we cant get to the big bad overseas piracy havens." tell that to megaupload.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 4:44pm

Re: Third video
I would say that the book is perhaps the theme for Mike's speeches. Bullshit. Cherry picked "facts", misdirection, and never an explaination of why people have more new copyrighted music in their possession today than at any time, and yet sales are off by 58% in a decade.

No explaination of why the general refrain is that Hollywood sucks, or Hollywood has it all wrong, and yet the most pirated, most in demand, most searched for, and more desired movie content is generally from Hollywood.

No explaination of why "more content" in and of itself is a good thing, especially when much of that content appears to be remixes of existing content.

No explaination of why concert ticket price increases seem to be the driving force for higher live revenues, rather than actual tickets sold.

No explanation of why all of the biggest music tours are big name bands, and why none of the "new business model" bands seem to be even making a dent.

Just happy cherry picked factoids, presented in a non-stop barrage that leaves little time for thinking, little time for consideration. There have been a few politicians good at this in the past, the most notable from the middle of Europe around WW2. He had all the facts on his side too, right?
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gab4moi (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 5:30pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
'They signed stupid contracts, blame their lawyers and agents, not the film maker'.

...which somehow absolves the film 'maker' of any wrongdoing in framing the contracts...

'Ever notice is takes these people years to even wake up and realize they MIGHT have some due? Hmmmm'

'Would you like to state specific cases, or are you just slandering the industry as a whole?'

...or just, like you, keep your head stuck firmly in the sand where you can't read headlines from the last 50 years or so...

'they realize he is battier than a dark cave'

...keep those lights switched off dude, or perhaps just stay in your fifteenth cubicle on the left in the basement at MPAA...
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Jay (profile), 13 Feb 2012 @ 8:16pm

Re: Re: Third video
This should be entertaining...

Please show how those factoids are cherry picked. People already know that you're full of it. Obviously, you haven't read the "Sky is Rising" report, nor any of the other case studies that have been pointed to on this site that actually debunk your shill argument. So by all means... Prove what you think are cherry picked facts.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"..keep those lights switched off dude, or perhaps just stay in your fifteenth cubicle on the left in the basement at MPAA..."

IDIOT. I don't work for the MPAA (or anyone in the movie or music industry).

That pretty much made the rest of your comments look ignorante.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Third video
Jay, already indicated.

Mike claims "more content", but really - is there more content, or just more of the same content repeated over and over? It would be like at the time of the invention of the printing press, saying "we now have many more new books" when in fact what you have is many more copies of the same book. Yes, the accompishment of the printing press is impressive, but don't attribute to it what it does not do.

Mike claims "higher income", but fails to address the issues of significantly higher concert ticket costs, or that more and more of that money in the last decade has been going to a smaller and smaller number of artists on tour.

No explanation of why, with all the "new tools" and "new business models" that people are still knocking themselves out for "Hollywood" entertainment. I don't see a rush on Nina Paley videos, do you?

So... there you go. Start from there.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:13pm

Re: Re: Third video
Obviously, you post here because the discussion is relevant. But you fail to understand your audience.

You are see-though and kinda pathetic.

Offer us real discussion and we build a skyscraper.

Post stupid, arrogant, unsubstantiated, "factoids" (i.e. opinion) and we wallow in more muck.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
The first auto makers (and home computer inventors ALL PRAISE THE WOZ) started in little tiny garages in their mothers basements, didn't make much money but, saw the big picture.

Fast forward a decade.

Old media = horse and buggy. Slow, overpriced, can't deliver what their customers want.

New innovators = ? They are still hanging out in their garages making things. But the new markets will be huge!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
meant fast forward a century
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
Let me add this:

Madonna shows... Staples Center in LA:

PREMIER LEVEL SEATING
US $176.25 - US $368.00

LOWER LEVEL LOGE
US $93.25 - US $368.00

FLOOR LEVEL SEATING
US $176.25 - US $368.00

UPPER LEVEL SEATING
US $47.00 - US $176.25

---

For reference, the girlie tour 1993, example:

The three concerts at Madison Square Garden attracted 43,353 concertgoers and grossed US$2,020,000. (average of $46.59 per ticket)

Drowned Tour, 2001:

New York Madison Square Garden 79,401 / 79,401 (100%) $9,297,105[43] (or $117 per ticket - double the price in less than a decade!)

Sticky and Sweet Tour (2008-2009), same venue:

Madison Square Garden New York City 61,586 / 61,586 (100%) $11,527,375 (average of $187.17 per ticket)!

Eek! Almost double again in less than 8 years. The price is more than 4 times higher in 15 years...

Now, can you think of what that would do to the overall sales of "live" music? Dollarwise, things are exploding. Actual "butt in the seats"? Nada.

So I feel there is cherry picking of facts, because what you have appears to be more a concentration of wealth in a small group of performers, and no real change at the bottom end - except now it's harder to sell recorded music, which use to be a source of income.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2012 @ 9:57pm

Re: Can't get to overseas websites?
Megaupload made a major mistake, which is they appear not only to have broken the copyright law (which in many places is a "slap on the wrist" offence) but they also appear to have engaged in business practices that make it up to charges like money laundering, which is an offence that can get you extradited from many countries to the US. Further, it would merit the collection of evidence (seizing of servers, equipment, office papers, and the like) to process as evidence in the case.

Megaupload's deal took YEARS to bring charges, and will take many more years to sort out. Most piracy is not done on such a grand (or arrogant) scale. The laws are not setup to deal with that sort of thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Feb 2012 @ 4:36am

I started watching the last video of the 4 person panel. I was mulling over the points the first 2 speakers brought up in their opening remarks as they were talking. Then the Chamber of Commerce guy started talking and I couldn't stop laughing. Seriously, this guy is like comic relief. I couldn't take anything he said seriously because of the sheer ridiculousness of his claims and his attempt to sound like the savior of the american economy. I love his line that "rogue sites present a clear and present danger", like somehow our economy will fall apart tomorrow if we don't do something today. Not to mention his use of the word "we" like he somehow represents the views of the public despite the fact it was the public that rose up against these bills. And of course there's the standard conflation of counterfeit products and piracy. I mean who doesn't see that unscrupulous counterfeiters of drugs are the same as teenagers downloading the latest adele song? I laughed my ass off when he said "we" have to disrupt the business models of these rogue sites. The Pirate Bay is universally recognized by the content industry as the #1 rogue site and somehow disrupting the thousands of dollars it makes a year will somehow bring it down? This guy is just...wow. At the end he keeps repeating "we need to move forward" and I'm just wondering if maybe he's facing the wrong way because his idea of moving forward seems like a step backwards to me.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Feb 2012 @ 4:50am

"Congress has been open door this whole time" I burst out laughing at this remark by the CoC guy. And right before this he says that we're in a representative democracy so its Congress' job to negotiate these bills. Anyone else see the problem with the two parts of this sentence? It seems pretty clear to me that if he really believed in this whole democracy thing, he would say that it is Congress' job to represent the viewpoints of their constituents, considering the majority of the public speaking out about these bills doesn't like them, you'd think it would be Congress' job to kill the bills. But the implication of his sentence is that its Congress job to tell us what's good for us and craft these bills without the input of the public they represent and that we should just shut up and live with it. Doesn't sound like a representative democracy to me...
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Robert (profile), 14 Feb 2012 @ 6:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
So you're saying:
1993 43 353 butts in seats
2001 (2 yrs after Napster and 2yrs after price fixing investigation) 79 401 buts in seats
2009 61 586 butts in seats

Considering 2009 and 2001 are both have more butts in seats than 1993 and price was up, so more revenue?

"Nada" ? I think not. You can't even cherry pick your own facts. Madonna's live concerts increased almost double. The 2008/2009 tour drop of 17 500 butts in seats can easily be accounted for the... oh what was it... FINANCIAL COLLAPSE of 2008! Given prices were $187 per ticket, that's impressive she attracted 61 586 fans in NYC to attend her concert.

The people at the bottom have always been suffering, arguable worse because the labels keep their debt ratio higher than the average home owner in Vancouver, BC.

Add to that those at the bottom have less creative control... you quickly see how life has always been shitty for them.

Labels are run by businessmen. They invest and promote what will bring home huge revenues. They don't risk it on the little guys. They don't invest in the little guys either.

According to a reliable source with Universal Music Canada, there's no A&R folks at Universal Canada. There's no investment in their clients (artists). And the reliable source does not even have any promotion by his label. They treat him like a cash cow. So why he signed again with them a few years ago is beyond me.

He has problems seeing past the "destruction" he sees by calling people in his phone book who are all "hurting" because of "piracy." But has not read any studies, but likely has been "informed" by Universal.

Funny thing, he doesn't even know that he was employing Mike's ideas of CwF and RtB and that's what was enabling 3x the ticket sales as the CD sales.

Once he stopped doing that (in the last year or so) he stopped following the ideas of CwF and RtB and wound up with lower ticket sales, lower website visits, and lower music sales.

He has his reasons, which are irrelevant here, but to the point, Mike is NOT cherry picking. You are, and you even proved yourself wrong.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Feb 2012 @ 8:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
Robert, it's one of the reasons why I marked it down by the ticket prices, because you have to remember that certain things happen in the process.

1993 may have been 3 shows at that venue. 2001 may have been 4 or 5 shows. 2009 may have been 4 shows.

What is key is that on each of these tours, Madonna did about the same number of shows total for the tour (39 in 1993, 47 in 2001... 2008/09 was 85, but it took 14 months to do in 4 legs. The 30 shows in north america is compatible to the 28 shows done there in 2003).

Since she isn't doing more shows in North America, she has on some tours done more in a single venue than others.

As for "financial collapse", let's be clear here. 3 years later, the US isn't in much better shape, and her ticket prices have DOUBLED for that venue. Don't you find that a little weird?

All of your label attacks are nice, but again way off the mark. We are trying to figure out why Mike claims the industry is vibrant, yet it can be shown that the increases in live performance income appear to be concentrated in a very few places, suggesting not vibrancy but rather massive stagnation. The rich get richer.

Why doesn't Mike address the issue?
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Robert (profile), 14 Feb 2012 @ 9:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
Madonna signed to a 360 degree deal, that's one reason her prices went up.

Another, for the general price increase, is related to artists (or labels - can't be sure) hire out companies to buy up tickets at normal prices and resell at higher prices. This was in the news a few years back, very sick and greedy!

Mike is not referring to the "industry" he's referring to the entire industry! More Indie groups have had much more success and earnings and chances to be heard than ever before.

The major label industry started consolidating around the same time as the price fixing and Napster. A lot of companies were (and still are) consolidating, which means lay-offs.

Rather than say "it was a combination of things" the "industry" simply blamed Napster and piracy. Rather than expose the demographics of CD purchases (old vs new) they blame piracy. Every time a new medium comes out, people update their collections, which leads to a false-sense of revenue for new artists. It's replacement of worn out records or melted/garbled cassettes.

And all the while new acts, new film makers, new journalists (freelance), new authors, etc... are all enjoying the broken-down restrictions that used to be in place by the gate-keepers of the legacy content industry.

Mike has addressed these points already. If you define the "industry" as the legacy content folks, yes sales are down, jobs are down, but what you fail to account for is the increase from the indies and non-legacy content folks. That's why the numbers show the industry as a whole, not the legacy content industry, is growing.

It's all in the report, have a read, it isn't that long.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Feb 2012 @ 7:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sorry, but in the MPAA's line of thinking you're either with them or against them.

You're clearly not against them.
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Jay (profile), 14 Feb 2012 @ 10:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
Mike claims "more content", but really - is there more content, or just more of the same content repeated over and over? It would be like at the time of the invention of the printing press, saying "we now have many more new books" when in fact what you have is many more copies of the same book. Yes, the accompishment of the printing press is impressive, but don't attribute to it what it does not do.

Let us take this apart. First, there are now more performers in the entertainment industry. We have a 43.2% growth rate in indie content from 1998 to 2008. So no, the content is not being repeated. There is new content based on older stuff, I'm sure. Within the statistics are gamers who play old games and post up on Youtube for a living, musicians that are making it work, and indie directors that have no affiliation with the industry. Further, we now have an explosion of writers that are self sustained without the need for book deals. So the argument that we have more repeated content is not adding up to reality.

Mike claims "higher income", but fails to address the issues of significantly higher concert ticket costs, or that more and more of that money in the last decade has been going to a smaller and smaller number of artists on tour.

More indie artists = more artists that take advantage of other methods of payment. You seem focused on the higher ticket costs. This is rather misleading in determining the success of indie artists. For one thing, some artists don't perform onstage. But as I'm showing above, there are now more artists that can make a living without contracts. So there is truth in saying that these artists have higher incomes. They aren't paying exorbitant sums to a record label that doesn't care about them anyway. Most artists aren't actively enslaving themselves for bank loans.

Also, I'm not seeing where a large amount of money is going to smaller numbers of artists on tour. I'm seeing the pie is getting bigger and artists are diversifying.

No explanation of why, with all the "new tools" and "new business models" that people are still knocking themselves out for "Hollywood" entertainment. I don't see a rush on Nina Paley videos, do you?

Nina Paley seems to be doing just fine. So is Jamendo, Dmusic, and all of the artists that haven't become a part of the major record labels.

And seeing as how Kickstarter has funded a number of new business models, it may be time to think outside of just the majors. They're shrinking more and more into irrelevance as the days go by.
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Jay (profile), 14 Feb 2012 @ 11:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
entertainment industry

Since it didn't come up in my post. &(^#@
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Feb 2012 @ 6:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
"More Indie groups have had much more success and earnings and chances to be heard than ever before."

[citation needed].

For all of the arm waving and ranting, I have not seen any grand indication that the indie movement today is seeing any more success than it has in the past.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Feb 2012 @ 6:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
Jay,

first lesson: Techdirt is not a quotable source for facts. It's an opinion blog. Either quote the original source, or give up. We are discussing here that Mike is cherry picking facts, so pointing to his cherry picked facts as the truth is just not going to work out for you. Dig deeper, go back and look at his sources, compare, and you will see how the numbers got picked.

" We have a 43.2% growth rate in indie content from 1998 to 2008"

As well we should. The costs to produce content are way down, and many are willing to put all of their spare time in to creating content. Sadly, much of the creativity out there is in the remix area, so it's hard to say how much really new stuff is out there, and how much is a reworking of someone else's work product.

Moreover, the numbers are meaningless if they don't add up to results. Mike was all up and excited a year or so ago when the number of "released" movies doubled. What he didn't want to talk about was that movie sales (dollars) are essentially flat, and ticket sales are dropping rapidly. Only massive increases in ticket prices have allowed the industry to stay at it's current level of income. So for the hundreds of indie films that got a release, they may have seen some income they might not have seen before, but overall, the industry isn't any strong, there isn't any more pie to distribute.

"Also, I'm not seeing where a large amount of money is going to smaller numbers of artists on tour. I'm seeing the pie is getting bigger and artists are diversifying."

Where are you seeing this? I am not seeing it. There seems to be a minor upswing in income on the second level (below the mega acts), but again seems to be more related to increased venue ticket prices, and not in any other way.

I am not seeing anything that suggests indie acts are driving live venue income. It seems to be top down. Do you have anything (aside from links to Techdirt) that supports your claims?
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Jay (profile), 15 Feb 2012 @ 10:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
Read the article. It's from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics and it's an original piece that shows quite clearly how the entertainment industry has gotten larger. Your cherry picked notion doesn't have weight.

Sadly, much of the creativity out there is in the remix area, so it's hard to say how much really new stuff is out there, and how much is a reworking of someone else's work product.

No... The increase is in the entertainment industry overall. You're picking out of just the music industry. That makes no sense in the broader view of the entertainment industry.

Mike was all up and excited a year or so ago when the number of "released" movies doubled. What he didn't want to talk about was that movie sales (dollars) are essentially flat, and ticket sales are dropping rapidly. Only massive increases in ticket prices have allowed the industry to stay at it's current level of income.

The number of release movies did double, and I remember even further back that the market increased when the movie theaters stopped having six month release windows. Further, the big net losses were movies that sucked.

In regards to the industry, you might want to explain how that has anything to do with your other ramblings. It's entirely offbase when movies such as Iron Sky or Girl with a Dragon Tattoo have come out in other areas and only come into the US for the Grammys at the end of the year.

Where are you seeing this? I am not seeing it. There seems to be a minor upswing in income on the second level (below the mega acts), but again seems to be more related to increased venue ticket prices, and not in any other way.

You seem overly concerned with concerts, ignoring other venues that artists have as I explained. There are some artists that make a living with just a Youtube presence. Some work for magazines. Others have a livestream audience. The pie and the options have gotten far larger than just concert sales.

I am not seeing anything that suggests indie acts are driving live venue income.

This sentence proves it. You're cherry picking data to make a stronger argument for the business methods of the RIAA. Instead of actually understanding that the choices have gotten more diverse for artists in how they make money, you instead use this time to say the only thing that matters is live venue income. That's not how all artists in the music industry make money. Neither is saying all game makers work for Valve or EA and ignoring the indies that make games on the Xbox or PSN. People can make a living on Spotify, Kickstart their own careers, or find ways for people to pay them through direct donations without ever going to a concert venue. So where is your evidence that the old way of doing things is creating more success for more artists?
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Hans, 15 Feb 2012 @ 10:46am

Who knows the most about the legislation?
I know I'm late to the party, but I had to comment on the panel discussion on SOPA/PIPA.

I think the most interesting thing is who seemed to know the most about the bill, its contents, evolution, what's covered, what isn't. Steve Tepp, a lawyer representing US business interests was obviously well informed, and certainly had his talking points well rehearsed.

Now maybe he's the only one on the panel that read the bill, but more likely he's he's the only one that actually had a hand in writing the bill, and dealing with the backlash. I've got your "open process" right here, Mr. Tepp.
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Instalacion de red madrid, 21 Feb 2012 @ 4:03pm

empresa instaladora de red
evolution is a fundamental human role, the economic interests of few can not be prefixed to the present needs of many, the evolution of the capitalist system is palpable, I hope everything works a lot more supportive economic model
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Train Simple, 11 Jun 2012 @ 1:58am

Being an open minded person, you can really easily make money cause you are open with any changes or suggestions in which it is very needed just like in entertainment. You should consider any feedbacks.
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Asperger Forum, 22 Jun 2012 @ 2:56am

Suggestions is very useful in order to get the company's goals while meeting the wants of the consumers. In entertainment, many must be given attention seriously.
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Tamara Strine, 25 Jun 2012 @ 12:09am

The one who don't accepts some suggestions can't be a successful business. In entertainment, you need to be an open minded person.
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elmo2123 (profile), 25 Aug 2012 @ 10:35pm

Awesome
Awesome and very true! Those who are open to suggestions and criticims get to improve their business. It is also good that we are able to send our opinions and suggestions through various social networking sites. I used to contact essay writing service like essayforme.com but now I learned how to write on my own through the criticisms I got.
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Gerald D, 20 Sep 2012 @ 5:34pm

Hi
I�m not much into reading, but somehow I got to read many articles in your webpage. It�s fantastic how interesting it is for me to visit you very often.
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avgbearha, 8 Feb 2013 @ 11:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
haha. Nice
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wiredworx (profile), 13 Feb 2013 @ 1:32am

best pr submission service
Thats excellent...
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2013 @ 8:27pm

The Kubler-Ross "stages of grief" don't really go in order anyway. Later studies have shown that people bounce back and forth between the different "stages".
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2013 @ 8:30pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
Indie artists are definitely getting more attention, more fans, more popularity, etc.

As for money? Do you think artists are owed a living? They aren't, you know. Despite this, many ARE making a living through Spotify, Kickstarter, concerts, etc.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Oct 2014 @ 6:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Third video
What a joke.

Every time an example of independents succeeding due to exposure and "piracy" idiots like you continue to insist no one pirates independent.
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April, 17 Apr 2015 @ 12:51pm

Help
We are about to lose our home, because we can't come up with 1600$ for taxes, husband just lost his job, won't be able to buy my son birthday presents on his seventh birthday.
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Reality bites, 21 Jun 2015 @ 1:26pm

Joe Rogan and Louis CK proved there is another way.
They produce their own stuff, and release it on their site.
It has been 100% successful, to the massive annoyance of the mentally damaged miaa and riaa. Just proves that two guys can have a higher intelligence than two copyright troll organizations and their mentally damaged supporters added together.

Time for the both the miaa and riaa to go away, time for the performers to get the money instead of fat parasites on bloated salaries.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jul 2016 @ 1:39pm

Free can mean only one thing... More ads... More... Even more
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Oct 2018 @ 4:24pm

Re:
Wrong. I get things for "free" and don't see any ads.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Nov 2019 @ 8:55am

Emo crap: the protection of copyright law is all people need, not to be "awesome" in the eyes of freeloading thieves.
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