Yet Another Court Says Illinois 'Eavesdropping' Law That Criminalizes Recording Police Is Unconstitutional

from the free-speech dept

Fri, Mar 2nd 2012 5:46pm — Mike Masnick

We've covered in great detail the ridiculous law in Illinois that makes it a crime to record police, even while they're on duty, without their knowledge. This seems crazy to us, and it appears the courts are agreeing. Last fall, we noted that a state court had ruled the law was unconstitutional, and now (as pointed out by reader John Katos) another local court has done the same.

Judge Stanley Sacks, who is assigned to the Criminal Courts Building, found the eavesdropping law unconstitutional because it potentially criminalizes “wholly innocent conduct.”

Last we'd heard, Illinois prosecutors were appealing the first ruling, and I imagine they won't be too happy about this ruling either. But, at some point, it seems they have to recognize the ridiculousness of making it a crime to record police on the job.

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Filed Under: constitutionality, free speech, illinois, police, recording

45 Comments

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silverscarcat (profile), 2 Mar 2012 @ 5:56pm

It's only a crime if you show them doing stuff that could be potentially dangerous to their image, like beating minorities, pepper spraying non-violent protesters, using a taser on a 13-year-old girl, and pulling guns on people who are on motorcycles and unarmed.

If you record them while they're getting donuts or something, no one cares.
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Tom Landry (profile), 2 Mar 2012 @ 6:07pm

I respect the hell out of most LE officers but at some point they forgot who they are working for.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 6:14pm

Prosecutors are part of the police family. Mafia family members protect each other.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 6:26pm

A lot of law and order fanatics tell us "if you're not breaking the law, you have nothing to hide". Guess what? It works both ways.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 6:42pm

Here is an idea lets track the police.

Youtube: Is Your Girlfriend Cheating? Here's one way to find out!

Spend $25 bucks and keep a tab on the cops.

Also I can see some uses that are not privacy related but security related, your security.

If you are walking somewhere that is dangerous, that could be good if anybody gets worried.

If you go to a protest and get arrested others will find you.

If you get arrested and is ok at the time but when you show up at the PD you are all bruised you can show where it happened and for how long it did go on.

If you get murdered people could find out where you were dumped, think of your loved ones.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 6:45pm

What part of being in public is not understood as being public? The only thing this law served was a method to hide police misconduct. Now are they going to let those out of jail that went in this charge or was added to charges already against them?
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 6:47pm

What part of being in public is not understood as being public? The only thing this law served was a method to hide police misconduct. Are they going to let those out of jail that went in this charge or was added to charges already against them, making it a three strikes with mandatory sentencing laws?
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wizened (profile), 2 Mar 2012 @ 6:49pm

Re:
You don't know how right you are. I live in the NW burbs of Chicago and I've seen a lot of BS. You can't point a camera at a cop and not record something illegal INCLUDING getting donuts. I was there several years back when the police used the police helicopter to land in the parking lot of the Dunkin Donuts to pick up some tasty food to take along. I've been asked for money. I've been asked for sex and I was once stopped so that the cop could check out my new car. This is a fine state to live in and I fully understand why they don't want anyone pointing a camera at them.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:04pm

Overlords Rule
First step to fascism...make it illegal to question authority.
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silverscarcat (profile), 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:08pm

Re: Overlords Rule
So...

The Patriot Act?
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:13pm

Protect and Serve
Mike's post on debunking, "If you're not breaking the law, you have nothing to hide."

Privacy Is Not Secrecy; Debunking The 'If You've Got Nothing To Hide...' Argument
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if- youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:15pm

I visit Chicago on a regular basis and travel throughout the country. There is a culture there and in a few other cities I visit, mostly on the east coast that is strange. The citizens expect the cops to act like they rule the streets, the cops expect it, and laws, all laws, simply do not apply to them. The defense and prosecuting attorneys hash out the cases before they go to trial to make each others careers a success and everyone is a friend of everyone else.

Believe or not there are areas in the country (most actually) where the cops obey the same laws they enforce- they drive under the speed limit, obey traffic lights, work a full shift under the careful eye of the public or risk losing their jobs. If they do not then the media will expose them on local television and they will be fired. If this is a surprise to you then you do not live there where most of us do and hold our politicians and public servants to a higher standard than you.

Then there is Chicago...a reality unto itself where everyone is on the take and getting a job in the city or government is the same as winning the lottery where you split the pot from the tax paying suckers. Video threatens this arrangement and the system they grew up understanding would be theirs to control someday.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:16pm

Re: Re: Overlords Rule
Secrete warrants = inability to question authority
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Overlords Rule
"Secret"
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:26pm

Public Service
Someone outside living Illinois needs to create a special YouTube channel and accept anonymous submissions of this natue from the citizens of Illinois to be posted on their behalf as a public service to those citizens. This is has to be one of the dumbest laws I'be seen in a long time.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:29pm

Re: Public Service
*living outside
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Keii (profile), 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:37pm

Ah yes...
Welcome to Illinois. Your constitution doesn't apply here. Also, there's a good chance the current governor is corrupt.
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Pirate Apologist, 2 Mar 2012 @ 7:52pm

Re: Ah yes...
that's not true... just cause the last two gov's are behind bars doesn't mean this one is corrupt too...

maybe...
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Cheesie, 2 Mar 2012 @ 8:21pm

FIBs
There's a reason Illinois residents are nicknamed FIBs. It's the most corrupt state in the country, and best to avoid it completely.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2012 @ 10:06pm

I don't understand why you complain about Illinoistan so much...
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Chargone (profile), 3 Mar 2012 @ 1:14am

Re: Re:
some of those are funny, others.... not so much :S
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Chargone (profile), 3 Mar 2012 @ 1:15am

Re:
less 'it works both ways' and more 'you can't have it both ways' i think.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2012 @ 5:18am

Re: Re: Re: Overlords Rule
secrete.. LOL :D
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2012 @ 5:33am

But, at some point, it seems they have to recognize the ridiculousness of making it a crime to record police on the job.

Illinois is the state that REQUIRES photo ID along with name and address to be taken down in order to buy drain cleaner!

Recognizing the ridiculous is not the Illinois lawmaker's strong suit.
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trollificus (profile), 3 Mar 2012 @ 7:28am

Re: Ah yes...
Yes, if you accept "a good chance" as a mathematical term equivalent to the chance of a coin landing heads or tails.

Also, though I am an honest-to-God NotRepublican, I still feel obliged to point out that our first half-white president comes out of the very same political culture identified here.

Just. Sayin'.
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bugmenot (profile), 3 Mar 2012 @ 7:28am

Illinois legislators protecting themselves
Chicago was declared the most politically corrupt city in the nation by the Univ of Illinois. Illinois the third most corrupt state. You would expect its leaders to try to hide from the people. Note Obama is Chicago's ranking politician ;-)
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abc gum, 3 Mar 2012 @ 7:33am

Re: Re:
Heh

Super Troopers - Altered State Police
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abc gum, 3 Mar 2012 @ 7:39am

And the "state" keeps appealing ...
At what point does this become a crime?

It certainly is a waste of taxpayers hard earned dollars.
I suppose they are like any other lawyer when it comes to billable hours, but they should be serving the public, not themselves.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2012 @ 9:44am

Re: Re: Ah yes...
Well Obama did repeal the Habeas Corpus/allowed it to be repealed.
The TSA's "enhanced" pat-down came out under his watch.
An Alwarki was murdered by his orders (and we're still waiting for proof that he was guilty - the word of the President just doesn't do it for me).
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Thomas (profile), 3 Mar 2012 @ 10:10am

Cops...
are always saying "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about", but they don't want it to go the other way around. The cops in Illinois just want to be able to beat the crap out of anyone they feel like and get away with it. I would much rather encounter a mugger than a cop. Give the mugger your phone and money and they leave you alone. Annoy a cop and you get a nasty beating on the spot, a criminal record, and probably more beatings and worse in their crappy jails, plus a huge bill to defend yourself from bogus charges. I avoid Illinois - it is not a safe state to visit. The prosecutors feel the cops can do no wrong and want to keep it that way.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Mar 2012 @ 11:31am

Re:
You think they aren't serving the public? Those government lawyers are working to defend a law passed by the legislators that the people elected. That's their job, and I'm not going to fault the lawyers for doing their job. (And if the case isn't properly argued, it's not going to set a good precedent anyway.)

If you want the government to serve the public, you need to elect people who want to serve the public. It would be preferable to stop these laws by repealing them or having them not be passed in the first place. But if the laws are on the books, we might as well have them fight it out so we can say once and for all that the law is unconstitutional, instead of having the law sit there so people think filming the police IS illegal even though the law is unenforceable.
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Keii (profile), 3 Mar 2012 @ 12:43pm

Re: Re: Ah yes...
Well the crooks in Illinois have swapped out that coin for a weighted one.
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InvinoVeritas, 3 Mar 2012 @ 3:10pm

The Federal Courts Already Did This.
http://peacefreedomprosperity.com/5618/federal-court-rules-videotaping-police-is-a-first-amendment-r ight/

Informative article regarding the federal rulings on recording police officers. Apparently, federal judges believe it's a first amendment right to be able to record police officers performing their duty.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2012 @ 2:26am

Filming police is also a crime in Virginia.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/222686
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2012 @ 2:26am

Filming police is also a crime in Virginia.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/222686
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awbMaven (profile), 4 Mar 2012 @ 4:15am

Taking a dump
"Last we'd heard, Illinois prosecutors were appealing the first ruling, and I imagine they won't be too happy about this ruling either. But, at some point, it seems they have to recognize the ridiculousness of making it a crime to record police on the job."

In the UK, when someone is 'on the job", they are taking a dump on the crapper, ie, having a shit on the toilet.
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awbMaven (profile), 4 Mar 2012 @ 4:27am

Re: Taking a dump
hmmm, maybe it's just my part of the UK, in others, 'on the job' a euphemism for having sex: http://www.euphemismlist.com/on-the-job/

I'll get my coat ...
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2012 @ 5:46am

Yea Prosecutors. You mean the guys that tell the police chief that they need to be reelected, so lets ramp up the harassement of the poor people down on Easy Street. Love the parody.
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abc gum, 4 Mar 2012 @ 10:41am

Re: Re:
I agree - it is a stupid law put in place for nefarious purpose and should be stricken. Getting it removed by those who put it there is like herding cats. This particular attempt at over reach has been hashed out in many courts across the country and IIRC all ruling have said it is total bunk - and yet these bozos continue to appeal. This is more than simply doing ones job.

The common rational which makes use of blaming voters for their representative government is a cheap shot. Not all states allow recall of their representatives - most of which lied about their intentions during the campaign and therefore do not represent the will of the people who put them there, much less those who voted for other candidates.

So the question remains, at what point does the continuous appealing of court decisions become egregious abuse of position? In this case the Illinois supreme court said no, think SCOTUS will take up this case? If so, why? They seem to have already ruled in this area.
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amorro (profile), 4 Mar 2012 @ 3:22pm

Battle Not Over Yet
The Illinois Eavesdropping�s battle isn�t over yet. On March 15th, 2012, Melongo will argue her motion to dismiss. She recorded Pamela Taylor, a Cook County Court Manager, for an alleged tampered court transcript. She�s challenging this controversial law on First and Fourteenth Amendments grounds.
Melongo's motion : http://tinyurl.com/6nqv2se
State's response: http://tinyurl.com/73fwecf
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abc gum, 4 Mar 2012 @ 3:40pm

Re: Re: Re:
"In this case the Illinois supreme court said no"

It is being appealed to the ISC.
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amorro (profile), 4 Mar 2012 @ 6:41pm

Not Over Yet
The Illinois Eavesdropping�s battle isn�t over yet. On March 15th, 2012, Melongo will argue her motion to dismiss. She recorded Pamela Taylor, a Cook County Court Manager, for an alleged tampered court transcript. She�s challenging this controversial law on First and Fourteenth Amendments grounds.
Melongo's motion : http://tinyurl.com/6nqv2se
State's response: http://tinyurl.com/73fwecf
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amorro (profile), 4 Mar 2012 @ 6:52pm

It's Not Over
The Illinois Eavesdropping�s battle isn�t over yet. On March 15th, 2012, Melongo will argue her motion to dismiss. She recorded Pamela Taylor, a Cook County Court Manager, for an alleged tampered court transcript. She�s challenging this controversial law on First and Fourteenth Amendments grounds.
Melongo's motion : http://tinyurl.com/6nqv2se
State's response: http://tinyurl.com/73fwecf
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TH, 5 Mar 2012 @ 5:05pm

People's Republic of Illinois
You couldn't pay me to live in that fascist state (IL)
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Really? (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 2:03pm

Re: Illinois Eavsdropping law
It really sucks that we have this law in Illinois. My boyfriend is in jail right now awaiting his next court date.
He's being charged with Aggravated battery to a government official, meaning hes being accused of spitting on a cop.. Anyways i have it recorded on my cell that he is being accused of it, but it didnt happen, the recording clearly captures two cops speaking and my bf, the first cop says "wheres the spit?" the second cop says to my bf Lenard " You ALMOST hit me with your spit" then you hear my boyfriend say "IM SORRY". And theres nothing i can do.. If i play it for the judge i face up to 15 years in prison myself. Now i cant understand why its ok for an officer to record arrests on a dashboard cam without our concent and its ok, but god for bid we get a cop on tape LIEING! Illinois sucks i agree, if i had the means to get my family out of here i would.. But till then were stuck with my boyfriend going to jail being innocent. and not to mention he faces 6 years in prison for being innocent all thanks to a cop that really loves his job of slamming innocent people.
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