ICANN Confirms That It's Going To Make It Easier For Governments To Seize Domains Around The Globe
from the not-cool,-icann dept
This just gets worse and worse. After pointing out that ICANN was missing a big (and important) opportunity by not speaking out against governments seizing domain names, we were disappointed to see ICANN release a white paper that was more of a how-to manual for governments on seizing domains. Now, Paul Keating points us to the depressing news that ICANN is now publicly saying that it will work more closely with governments around the world to help them seize and censor domains. The writeup is a little vague, but it says that seizing domains for copyright infringement was a "hot topic" at ICANN's recent meeting -- including promises from ICANN that it would work more closely with law enforcement around the globe and the various registrars to help law enforcement be more effective in censoring these websites. This is really unfortunate and once again highlights ICANN's uselessness in protecting the internet. Instead, it appears to be actively working against basic internet principles.
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Filed Under: domain names, domain seizures, legality, seizures
Companies: icann
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/grabs popcorn
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Diaspora
and there was much weeping and wailing.
Then, from the people there rose up the private DNS server networks, ignoring the ignoble stupidty of ICANN.
And there was much rejoicing.
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Re: Diaspora
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Vague, and wrong
Copyright infringement and domain seizures were not hot topics. They were barely mentioned, in fact.
The main controversy about the Registrar Accreditation Agreement were proposed Whois validation requirements.
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Re: Diaspora
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Re: Vague, and wrong
And wtf does that last sentence have to do with the price of fish?
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Re: Re: Diaspora
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We've read over and over again about how other countries (China, Italy, France, etc.) have problems (pick one) with many of the major US Internet companies. Do we really believe that the only seizures are going to be of comepiratethis.com?
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Re: Re: Vague, and wrong
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Re: Re: Diaspora
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Re: Re: Re: Diaspora
Also there is the bitcoin based initiative, the darknets that implement their own DNS systems and other initiatives, just pick one and start using it.
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Why exactly? You Mike? The IT world expected this, and knew it would happen any day now. No one is disapointed, we knew it all along. ICANN is a private govt funded entity. They reply on it to exist (close to billions of dollars) so it's only logical that they will do their bidding.
Another argument to decentralize everything, but more importantly remove it from USA control, government or not.
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Re: Re: Re: Diaspora
There is still activity on the p2p DNS SourceForge site. It really isn't a replacement DNS, but it will create it's own distributed TLD (.p2p) that isn't under the control of any one government or entity.
http://p2pdns.sourceforge.net/
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Actually, I think it is proof that they are trying to find a balance between "anything goes, we won't look" and the lock down mentality that you seem to fear.
There are just way too many people out there breaking the law, because they think they are safe or hidden by the internet. That isn't fair for people who follow the law, and operate within it.
It's not just a question of making copyright holders happy, but also in dealing with the real business issues that face internet startups who may not make it because they cannot compete with illegal sites.
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This has always been a weakness of the system - and one that has been discussed for many many years. The only saving grace was that no government was trying to break the DNS system enough to force people to find alternatives, and now that's starting to disintegrate.
If they had just left it alone, nobody would have wanted to choose an alternate network, and now everyone is considering it.
Who will you trust? The government-censored system?
It's going to take us back to the "internet dark ages", and the politicians could give a shit less while they try to censor this "wild west". They have no idea what they're unleashing.
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Wait. I think your view is a bit distorted because you see the word "internet".
There are also way too many people speeding on our freeways because they think they won't get caught. That isn't really fair to those who drive the speed limit and have to spend more of their time driving, is it? No one is out there advocating that we limit all the freeway access ramps to "approved" drivers are they?
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What you are missing is that many startups are missing out because they either cannot sell the products for a reasonable price, or cannot extract enough value from their presentation / distribution to make it work out. They cannot do it because they are specifically competing with the same product being given away for free.
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Ok. Fair enough. Perhaps I should have worded it as "non-speeders" instead of "approved".
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The internet is built on trust relationships, who do you think people and corporations will go to in the end? Gov or geek?
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And if you've ever spent time in a traffic court, you would know that SIGNIFICANT due process (many, many violations) occurs before revocation.
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Are you new to this site? One can absolutely compete with free.
If a startup relies on an artificial monopoly in order to be successful, then I view that as a poor business model to begin with. I certainly wouldn't invest in them.
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They're such blatant sociopaths.
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1) What startups are you talking about? Do you mean hypothetical startups?
2) If a startup is failing because because it's trying to sell something that its prospective customers can already get for free the problem is not that people can get it for free.
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Alternate DNS Not Likely
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Diaspora
Are you vision impaired or something?
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Re: Alternate DNS Not Likely
They would have to outlaw VPN's first. And that won't happen anytime soon since so many businesses and government entities rely on them for secure encrypted communication.
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But could DNS be considered 'free speech'? It should be.
Something like that would kill a legit service like OpenDNS that many people use to filter out content. I use OpenDNS to keep my kids and their friends off of objectionable sites - including many torrent sites - how would that help the industry?
Who can define why I may use an OpenDNS type of system - perhaps it's for education, work, or research?
What if someone copy wrote/trademarked their DNS system - then we start really opening up the Pandora's box of questions.
Or maybe they would call it something other than DNS - then that law wouldn't apply.
Or perhaps it could all be tunneled through SSL and the ISP wouldn't even really know what the data contains.
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Re: Re: Re: Diaspora
NameCoin
Retroshare also may use some sort of URI system since they do have the ability to have forums so it must have a way to route that anonymously.
GNUNet does have their own URI system and so do TOR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnunet
https://www.torproject.org/download/download-easy.html .en
After downloading the TOR Bundle you can use the onions.
http://eqt5g4fuenphqinx.onion/
There is also I2P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.i2p
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In an enviroment where everybody can freely copy, distribute, modify and sell what others do should not promote any growth according to you but that is not what happens is it?
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Heh. Just noticed that little gem while rereading this thread.
Someone infringing on somebody else's copyright doesn't change my life either, so I'm not sure what your point is.
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Re: Alternate DNS Not Likely
Overlays are cheap, we can build them by the thousands.
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Also, there are, and have been since the dawn of the public internet, alternate roots for DNS. Not very successful, but they already exist. Use them if you want to support them.
Best wishes on seeing an internet controlled by "people".
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Re: Diaspora
And there was much rejoicing."
Then you were the victim of a man in the middle attack, lost all your savings, and wonder why the fuck you ever bothered.
The cure is way worse than the cause.
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You don't compete with free. You go find another business that can't be ripped off as easily, and call it even.
That's why musicians are playing mini-putt for a living, because clearly being a musician is useless.
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BULLSHIT STRAWMAN!
Nobody wants a monopoly - just nobody wants to compete with their own product given away for free by someone who isn't paying for it to start with. That's not a question of monopoly, that's a question of right and wrong.
You are incredible dense if you cannot see the difference.
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Nope. You are still free to enter the IP address of what you want, or to use other means to reach the destination site by doing DNS locally on your own machine. That is your choice. Your free speech rights are NOT limited because your ISP uses a mandated DNS, any more than your free speech rights are limited because TV stations can only broadcast on certain frequencies. It's a rule of the road, nothing more.
You can come up with 1000 ways to get around it, but each one becomes more and more complicated, more and more prone to failure, and most importantly, more and more prone to man in the middle attacks or other mischief. You are a fool if you want to step out of the current DNS system to protect your right to rip off movies and music.
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That is a much more nuanced issue and is what we're trying to get at here. If ICANN established (and adhered to) some principles that acknowledged that the internet exists for the benefit (and not just economic) of all not the few and established methods for equitable (and not just equitable for those with money) dispute resolution, there might less of an issue.
If the goal is for governments and MNCs to gain control over the internet, then other options WILL arise because there will exist an unmet need (a need that has existed since forever) to communicate, innovate, and share culture freely.
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Rawr, rawr, get off my lawn. I don't understand this internetz thingy, rawr, rawr.
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If you don't want a monopoly, then forgo copyright and patent protection. If you don't believe those are monopolies, then I guess the whole part about them being an "exclusive legal right" is lost on you.
Competing on price is a loser's bet, unless you can do something no one else can. Every business school, business book, economics book, etc. will tell you that.
"...nobody wants to..."
Nobody wants to really work for a living either, yet that is the fate of the 99%, sorry. Just because you create, does not mean you get paid--you have to offer a reason to buy that your competitors do not.
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They shouldn't, the lack of a granted monopoly didn't stop McDonalds from becoming the 4th largest employer in the world, it didn't stop million dollar open source companies from appearing either, it also didn't stop the fashion industry, so we all just know you are full of shit.
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Copyright IS an artificial monopoly.
...just nobody wants to compete with their own product given away for free by someone who isn't paying for it to start with.
Then don't compete with it. Use the non-scarce as a loss leader to sell the scarce. Look, you can spend all your time and energy trying to fight illegal copying, but it isn't going to go away - just about everyone has a digital copying machine in their pocket or purse nowadays. Thirty years of escalating copyright laws haven't even dented the surface of piracy.
That's not a question of monopoly, that's a question of right and wrong.
You are somewhat right. There's no question that copyright is a government enforced monopoly. As for the rest of that sentence, you are talking morals and I don't argue morals because they are personal and subjective. What I may think is immoral, you might not and vice versa.
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What you are missing is that many startups are missing out because they either cannot sell the products for a reasonable price, or cannot extract enough value from their presentation / distribution to make it work out. They cannot do it because they are specifically competing with the same product being given away for free."
I love how people who know nothing and do nothing try to comment about things they know nothing about by reciting Big Media talking points.
I am an author. I sell books. I also sell software/phone apps. I also sell CD's/DVD's.
I have no problem competing against free. In fact, I never both to check to see if my products are pirated... I don't care.
If someone pirates my books, CDs, apps, etc... that person has a much better chance to become a customer of my other products.
And if not, big deal... I'm always creating new streams of revenue.
I DON'T make one thing and then expect to sit back and reap the rewards for the rest of my unnatural life.
None of the great artists throughout history did. Did Mozart stop after his first symphony and expect to live on it for the rest of his life? Bach? Van Gogh? Shakespeare? Mark Twain? Robert Frost?
No, all great artists have one thing in common. They kept creating.
Coincidentally... so do I.
If you make something people find value in, they will buy it. Will some people pirate it? Sure... but either 1) They will become customers because they like it, or 2) They really wouldn't have been customers anyway.
Piracy is the excuse of men with weak wills, weak imaginations, weak drive or all of the above.
And that's from someone who KNOWS... because I DO it. Not because I'm reading some Big Corp's talking points.
There are and always will be opportunities for intelligent, motivated people to make money.
Anyone who tells you differently is selling misery.
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Re: Re: Diaspora
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Maybe so, maybe not -- but this action won't affect that at all. People can, and will, be just as "safe" and "hidden" as they are now.
That's not just wrong, but backwards. It decreases the integrity of DNS, and makes it easier for competitors harm startups by causing them to lose their domain names.
At the same time, it won't significantly impact piracy. There is no upside to this for startups. The only upside is for governments and major corporate interests.
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Re: Alternate DNS Not Likely
Which would just cause the alternative DNS to use a nonstandard protocol.
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But am I a fool for stepping out of the current DNS to avoid other censorship? Because that's what I would do. I don't pirate, but I certainly will route around any of these blacklists and will help others to do the same.
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It certainly does if the speeder loses control because he's going too fast for the road and smashes into your car killing you.
Last I checked, domain names can't kill.
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Re: Re: Vague, and wrong
http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/raa-negotiations-progress-report-01mar12-en. pdf
None of them deal directly with domain seizures or copyright. The Computerworld article mentions one of them:
Some of the 12 recommendations relating to registrar agreements was inclusion of a clause that holds registrars responsible through negligence for registering domains engaging in criminal activity.
Sure, this is related to enforcing copyright but does not discuss it or how enforcement will happen. The other recommendations deal with the registrars authenticating domain buyers and increased accountability in this whole process. I believe the mention of copyright and domain seizures was a poor journalistic attempt to tie-in what was currently a very public controversy involving ICANN.
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Re: Re: Re: Vague, and wrong
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Computerworld article is misleading
http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/raa-negotiations-progress-report-01mar12- en.pdf
LEA REQUEST 1:
(a)If ICANN creates a Privacy/Proxy Accreditation Service, Registrars will accept proxy/privacy registrations only from accredited providers;
(b) “Registrants using privacy/proxy registration services will have authentic Whois information immediately published by Registrar when registrant is found to be violating terms of service”
LEA REQUEST 2:
To RAA paragraph 5.3.2.1, language should be added to the effect “or knowingly and/or through gross negligence permit criminal activity in the registration of domain names or provision of domain name WHOIS information…”
LEA REQUEST 3:
All Accredited Registrars must submit to ICANN accurate and verifiable contact details of their main operational and physical office location, including country, phone number (with international prefix), street address, city, and region, to be publicly disclosed in ICANN web directory. Address must also be posted clearly on the Registrar's main website. Post Office boxes, incorporation addresses, mail-‐drop, and mail-‐forwarding locations will not be acceptable. In addition, Registrar must submit URL and location of Port 43 WHOIS server
LEA REQUEST 4:
Registrars must publicly display of the name of CEO, President, and/or other responsible officer(s).
LEA REQUEST 5:
Registrars with multiple accreditations must disclose and publicly display on their website parent ownership or corporate relationship, i.e., identify controlling interests.
LEA REQUEST 6:
Registrar will notify ICANN immediately of the following: a. Any and all changes to a Registrar’s location(s), office(s);
b. Changes to presiding officer(s);
c.Change in controlling ownership;
d. Any criminal convictions, and any civil convictions causal or related to criminal activity. Registrar will concurrently update their website upon notifying ICANN of (a)–(c) above.
LEA REQUEST 7:
Registrar should be legal entity within the country of operation, and should provide ICANN with official certification of business registration or license.
LEA REQUEST 8:
Reseller Accountability and disclosure obligations.
LEA REQUEST 9:
Registrar collection and maintenance of data on the persons initiating requests for registration, as well as source IP addresses and financial transaction information.
LEA REQUEST 10:
Validation of Whois data upon receipt from registrant
LEA REQUEST 11:
Registrar creation of an abuse point of contact, and provision of a well-‐defined, auditable way to track complaints.
LEA REQUEST 12:
ICANN should require Registrars to have a Service Level Agreement for their Port 43 servers.
There was agreement in principle to every one of these recommendations except for request #9. In general, this deals with law enforcements ability to find and contact individual domain owners. It eliminates the ability to own a domain anonymously, that is anonymous from law enforcement. This could be a free speech issue. China has restricted registrars within China from allowing anonymous domain ownership. The other issue is making registrars liable for permitting criminal activity in the registration of domain names. It is not clear to me yet if this covers criminal activity by the domain owner in general related to using the domain. These are important issues but do not directly deal with domain seizure or copyright enforcement.
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Re: Computerworld article is misleading
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Exactly. They seem hellbent on accelerating the development of user-friendly darknets.
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Don't know why you believe that you are entitled to "due process" within TOS. If you pay your credit card late they add a penalty, jack your rate and even lower your available credit.
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ICANN's role
And you can speak out within ICANN as well. ICANN frequently opens public forums online for transparent discussions about all issues affecting the Internet. And the public forum at our international meetings invites anyone (you have to register to attend, but it’s free) to comment on anything internet-related. If you can’t attend in person, do so remotely. You can submit your comment online. Keep it within the boundaries of civility and we’ll read out it in real time and give members of ICANN’s Board a chance to respond. Our next meeting is in Prague in June, so show up – one way or another.
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