Law Enforcement Already Has A Way To Share 'Cybersecurity' Info With Companies; Why Do We Need CISPA?

from the this-makes-no-sense dept

Fri, Apr 27th 2012 12:19pm — Mike Masnick

The whole CISPA situation keeps looking more and more questionable. For months, we've been raising the question of why we needed such a law in the first place, because the evidence of any online threat that required such a law seemed hyperbolic at best, and perhaps naively anecdotal, at worst. However, there's another dimension to the "why" question. It's not just that the actual risk hasn't been quantified, it's not clear that the government and companies actually need a new law to share such security info in the first place. As we stated, the "right" way to do this would be to look at where the actual roadblocks are today in sharing such info. And there's some evidence that such roadblocks don't even exist.

Kashmir Hill has a great post showing how the FBI and companies already share the kind of info that the bill's sponsors claim the bill is needed to allow.

The FBI has been information-sharing with private industry for over a decade without a bill like CISPA in place.

In 1997, long-time FBI agent Dan Larkin helped set up a non-profit based in Pittsburgh that “functions as a conduit between private industry and law enforcement.” Its industry members, which include banks, ISPs, telcos, credit card companies, pharmaceutical companies, and others can hand over cyberthreat information to the non-profit, called the National Cyber Forensics and Training Alliance (NCFTA), which has a legal agreement with the government that allows it to then hand over info to the FBI. Conveniently, the FBI has a unit, the Cyber Initiative and Resource Fusion Unit, stationed in the NCFTA’s office. Companies can share information with the 501(c)6 non-profit that they would be wary of (or prohibited from) sharing directly with the FBI.

In other words, if sharing info was important, we already had a perfectly functional model that's been in place for 15 years. This means, either that the Congressional authors and supporters of this bill were completely ignorant of this or CISPA is really meant to sneak through something worse. Neither makes CISPA or its supporters look very good. I'm actually hoping that the truth is that they're just ignorant and passing laws on issues they don't understand, because the other choice is even more depressing.

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Filed Under: cispa, cybersecurity, fbi, information sharing

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BentFranklin (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:23pm

What is the Senate version of CISPA?
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:27pm

So does this mean all of the dire predictions about the implications of CISPA were just so much bullshit since that sort of activity has been going on for 15 years?
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:36pm

Re: ?...?
Are you claiming to be surprised to learn you've generally had no rights the entire time?
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:37pm

Re:
Not at all. This is just one aspect of what CISPA does, and the one most often talked about being "needed". What is going on here is only a piece of CISPA, and not the dangerous parts.

What this says is that CISPA is unneeded, since the "needed" parts already exist and the unneeded parts have yet to be proven to be needed.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: ?...?
Sorry, I didn't notice.
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gorehound (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:45pm

Re:
Probably something even worse than CISPA.And the only reason why they are doing this is to probably really turn this Nation into a nice little Police State.
Eventually they will get a lot more than they bargained for.
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gorehound (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:46pm

Re:
Probably something even worse than CISPA.And the only reason why they are doing this is to probably really turn this Nation into a nice little Police State.
Eventually they will get a lot more than they bargained for.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:50pm

Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Well, those who never use them rarely notice their absence.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 12:57pm

I want a law...
...that says that if the government is not allowed to do X, then it is also not allowed to get a private entity to do X for it.
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weneedhelp (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
And those who try to tell them are rarely listened to.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Let's see... I work, raise a family, vote, drive, travel, hunt, fish, golf, own property, fly, have access to news, books, television, music, food, clothing, healthcare, education, police and fire protection. Thanks for the enlightenment, I never knew how repressed I was.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:24pm

Re:
So does this mean all of the dire predictions about the implications of CISPA were just so much bullshit since that sort of activity has been going on for 15 years?

No. It means that the official reasons why the bill was supposedly needed are hogwash -- but the other crap that the bill will allow, the stuff everyone was protesting, which current law DOES NOT allow -- may have been the real purpose behind CISPA.

Of course, I explained that in the post.

Did you read it?
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Yes, nothing like running around a little pre-planned route and pretending you're exploring the wilderness.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:25pm

Our rights were gone a long time ago.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:25pm

"This means, either that the Congressional authors and supporters of this bill were completely ignorant of this or CISPA is really meant to sneak through something worse."

I'm going to go with ignorant. Put the word "security" into anything an the politicians will vote for it whether we need it or not.
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Digitari, 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
yet, you did NOT give your name, address, phone number, income or blood type to post on this blog, what kind of freetard are you, WHAT ARE YOU HIDING????????
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
bitch please, you're repressed. just because you're not repressed like other countries doesn't mean it isn't true.
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weneedhelp (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
I work - Taxed to death
Raise a family - More and more government intervention.
vote - Diebiold
hunt - Unless you have ever taken certain meds(HR2640):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVQmZ0Oy_qE
own property - try getting behind on your taxes
fly - Unless you get put on the no fly list for whatever reason
healthcare - Dont pay too much for that do ya?
education - Again dont pay too much for that either huh?
police and fire protection - Unless you dont pay, then they let your house burn to the ground(search TD for hat one.

Thanks for the enlightenment - You are welcome.
See how you didn't notice?
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weneedhelp (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Some more to chew on:
H.R. 1955 pt. 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMEgSSRVWl0
H.R. 1955 pt. 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERNC7iwDns

One for the kids (you need to be refreshed as well):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m49ZQMsJDo

Your papers please:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSfFD0JswCc

and as I said earlier:
And those who try to tell them are rarely listened to.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
I work - Taxed to death

I'm happy to pay what I am paying given the opportunity I've been afforded

Raise a family - More and more government intervention.

Not really

vote - Diebold

Not where I live

hunt - Unless you have ever taken certain meds(HR2640):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVQmZ0Oy_qE

I haven't, sorry.

own property - try getting behind on your taxes

I pay my taxes

fly - Unless you get put on the no fly list for whatever reason

rec pilot. My wife controls the no-fly list. I only usually land on it when I forget a birthday or social obligation.

healthcare - Dont pay too much for that do ya?

I don't pay anything, my employer pas a lot though. I support a single payer. You?

education - Again dont pay too much for that either huh?

Like Derek Bok said: If you think the price of education is high, consider the cost of ignorance. We have a fine community college that costs $3500/year full-time. Many kids go there and then transfer. Generally, our state schools are around $20,000 for everything including room and board. And that's without any financial aid or scholarship. Done right, you can easily get a high-quality bachelor's degree for under $30,000.

police and fire protection - Unless you dont pay, then they let your house burn to the ground(search TD for hat one.

Haven't had any need for either, though my property tax pays for them.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 1:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
No, no. He's right. Unless you are in prison, you aren't being repressed, but if you are in prison, it's because you broke the law so it's not repression. Nobody has ever been repressed. Ever.

Besides, rights are only for people who lead good, clean lives. If you aren't hiding anything criminal, then you don't need rights, therefore, if you try to assert your rights then it's obvious that you are hiding something criminal.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:02pm

So Mike, I have to ask: Who is paying for all of these posts? Clearly your sudden interest in this bill matches up well with your trip to the East Coast. What's up? Care to clue in the public as to your motivations?

Also, just like SOPA, don't you think there are enough posts on the topic already in a single day? We figured out that you were playing lobbyist on that bill, right?
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BentFranklin (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:03pm

Re:
I meant, what is the name of the senate bill?
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weneedhelp (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
You appear to be a complete asshole. Just because it does not effect you does not mean it has not been taken away. I bet you are the kind of asshole that would just sit there and watch someones house burn because they didn't pay a lousy 75 bucks.

Raise a family - More and more government intervention.
Not really
Bullshit.

vote - Diebold
Not where I live
again bullshit

My wife controls the no-fly list.
Fucking joke, asshole.

I pay my taxes - You mean your rent for your property, you dont really own it.

Like Derek Bok said - you dont pay school tax? Bullshit.

Nice try.
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BentFranklin (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
The strongest prison is the one with invisible walls that the inmates build for themselves.
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BentFranklin (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:09pm

Re:
There's a big difference between a lobbyist (whore for money) and an activist (hero for freedom).
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:10pm

Re:
So TAM, who pays you?
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Chosen Reject (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Happy to pay in taxes what you do? I suppose then that you don't take any tax breaks, and if the government were to lower taxes you would keep paying what you already do.

As for property, you don't own it. If you stop paying your property taxes, they'll come and kick you off. Since property tax never ends, that's called renting.

You might be a rec. pilot. Who gave you permission to do so? Oh yeah, you already know the answer to that. Who approves your flights? Oh yeah, you already know the answer to that, and it's not your wife. Being a recreational pilot won't keep you off the no-fly list. Hell, it didn't even keep a commercial pilot off the no-fly list.

Just because some repressing laws don't affect you, doesn't mean your rights aren't taken away. That's what CISPA is all about, and lots of laws before it, and lots of laws to come. Each one eroding a right that few use or will notice, until eventually you have none. Do I really need to quote Martin Niem�ller here?
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:11pm

Re:
Reading into things much?

Take the tinfoil hat off, dude.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re:
I think that is precisely the point he was making about Masnick.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
You sound like an angry, bitter little man. You know, you also have the right to emigrate to another country. If your life here is so repressed and terrible, move.

And I am hardly the type to watch someone's house burn for $75. My wife and I are active in our community and engage in a variety of volunteer and charitable work. My kids have attended both private and public schools. Our community schools are among the best in the country and a source of pride. I'm happy to support them through my property taxes. Diebold really does not have the contract in my county, really. I loathe commercial flights but only because the planes are so full, its hard to get a first class upgrade. And paying for first class is seldom worth the price. My wife does control the no fly list, albeit not the one you refer to.

Try to enjoy your weekend you miserable prick. Life's too short to be spent in your Mom's basement railing against every imagined wrong in the world. And I'm sure you'll enjoy the next country you live in far more.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
I am happy to pay my taxes. I earn a decent living and believe in paying my fair share and then some in recognition of the great opportunity I've been afforded. I do take the deductions I'm entitled to. ?The only thing I object to is that billionaires pay a lower percentage of income into the tax revenue pot while our country drowns in debt. Sadly the Republicans will set the country ablaze before that changes much.

My property taxes go to support services in my county that I value. I knew what I was getting into when I bought the place. Short of being a tax-exempt foundation I don't know of anywhere in the US where you don't pay property taxes.So what?

True the FAA is the licensing authority. And I willingly submit to their requirements. If I had an issue with it I could always fly an ultralight and dispense with a license. The FAA doesn't control all airspace, but what it does control is generally for reasons of safety.

Perhaps if you too are so burdened you should join the dipshit above in finding a new place to live.
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That One Guy (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:24pm

Re:
Now that gives me an idea...

I hereby propose a new bill, the 'Securing our IP, puppies, for the children, and valuable assets' bill. It'll have a paragraph or two of quotable nonsense, and then on the second page it'll list the members of government as 'valuable assets', and require them to be perpetually locked into their houses, with no outside contact other than a pizza slot, to protect them from all the terrorists, pirates, and pirate terrorists.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Short of being a tax-exempt foundation I don't know of anywhere in the US where you don't pay property taxes.So what?
It means you don't own your property.

No comment on the no-fly list, eh? Don't worry, comrade, you aren't being repressed at all. It's those other undesirables. Obviously if they're on the no-fly list it's because they've done nothing wrong, so you've got nothing to worry about it. You're rights aren't being repressed, so no worries.

I'm not burdened. In fact, I live my life probably very similarly to yours. I live a normal life, normal 9to5 job, pay my taxes, raise a family. You and I are probably both just some mediocre Freds. The difference is that when I see other's rights being eroded I realize that those are also my rights being eroded, just not rights I have ever felt the need to use.

I also think leaving the country is the cowardly thing to do. It's much better to stay here and make for a non-repressed country than to let it fall into ruin. No matter where you go you're going to end up in a country that is trying to slowly take away your rights anyway. Why don't you leave, instead, and go to a country that only allows you to do exactly what you want to do and no more. It seems you'd be happy there. Then the rest of us can fight for freedom while you wallow in your mediocrity.

I get it, you're not affected because the rights being eroded away haven't been rights that you've ever used. You've never needed freedom of speech because you've never said anything the government wouldn't like. You've never been on the no-fly list so you don't care that it exists. You've never needed privacy for anything non-criminal so you're happy to have the TSA search you with no other cause than because they say it's necessary. I get all that. You may be active in your community, but you couldn't care less about the rights of people who aren't you or who aren't like you.

Try to enjoy your life. I don't want to remove the blinders you have on. Go on, there's bliss in ignorance, and you seem very blissful.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Perhaps you should read the serenity prayer from AA. It might help you to learn to enjoy life rather than wallow in your misery and suspicion.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:25pm

Re:
Your level of paranoia runs deep, dude.

No one paid for this post or any other post on the site. We don't sell the editorial, never have. On the very few times we've done sponsored posts they've been (a) clearly stated and (b) the sponsor has no say in the actual content of the post.

My trip to NY had nothing whatsoever to do with CISPA, though I find it amusing that you're so paranoid that you're making crazy connections. You might want to seek help.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 5:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
try going somewhere without money. Then you will see how free you are.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 8:02pm

Re: Re:
Oh look, a river in Egypt.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 8:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
I don't have the right to emigrate. Know why? Because this country's idea of health care has me completely fucked. Because the economy is tanked, making it impossible for me to get a job regardless of the anti-discrimination laws. Congratu-fucking-lations that you've got fairly cheap schooling where you are. The national average is so fucking astronomic as to be completely unreasonable for a household of median income. Betting your household income is far about 'middle class.' As for the weekend? I'll definitely enjoy mine, you egotistical asshole.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 8:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
You're not an asshole, I take it back. You're an ostrich, sticking your head in the sand. 'Everything's okay for me, so why should I care that others are suffering?' I really believe you do anything for your community /for the community/. I think you do it for yourself so you can feel superior.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 10:05pm

CISPA Is All About the NSA
When 9/11 happened, NSA copped some criticism for "not connecting the dots". In other words, they were caught out not bothering to do their jobs. Quite a few people should have been held accountable and lost their jobs. We can't have that. So they ran the standard bureaucrat defense, "Oh, minister, we do not have the power or the resources." The stupid minister bought the story. High fives all round. Go out for drinkies.

Since then, the NSA has been showered with money and is building a massive new data centre, with over-the-top security. CISPA is all about making anything they decide to do legal. Your tax dollars at work. Enjoy!
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 12:40am

Re:
"Put the word "security" into anything an the politicians will vote for it whether we need it or not."

It might be more accurate to substitute "security" for "donation".
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 8:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
"Who cares what's happening in the country? I sure don't, God's got everything under control; I don't have to think about or do anything."

Keep up the prayer, it'll keep your spirits up when it's finally too late and you realize what kind of fascist police state you now live in.
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aikiwolfie, 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
The Chinese also have those things. Yes Chinese people get to vote.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 3:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
Forgive me if I don't equate your suffering the indignity of maybe, possibly having your privacy somewhat diminished. By concerns lean more toward people having access to healthcare, enough food to eat, a job, a place to live and access to education. There are many less fortunate who'd gladly trade your brand of suffering for their own.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 5:23pm

Re: Re: Re:
off your meds again I see.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:22pm

Re: Re:
Perhaps I can rephrase thing:

Who is paying you to be so hyper focused on a single item? Are you working for a group that opposes it?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Apr 2012 @ 5:02pm

Re: Re: Re:
Who is paying you to be so hyper focused on a single website? Are you working for a group that opposes it?
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Anonononono, 1 May 2012 @ 6:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Does it matter? Take advantage of the groups that will support your freedoms and visibility when you can and punch the other ones when they try to take that visibility away from you.

And from the ignorant fucktard who claimed that the FAA doesn't impose any sort of border restrictions, as an ARAB AMERICAN and a POT SMOKING LIBERAL (NSA, eat your heart out) I am pretty much number one on most airlines' "terrorist" watchlists.

I have been probed, derobed, and humiliated by the Department of Homeland Security and their wage slave goons, and it's clear to me the fair Department and most other "intelligence agencies" are slowly forming an American "Committee of Public Safety."

Like France had a radically leftist revolution, we have had a radically rightist revolution with the election of such favorites as Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush (the latter a corporate spokesman and the former a wealthy oil baron).

As for what you said about education, as a recent high school graduate, I can say proudly that the propaganda videos that our tax dollars pay for that we are now allowed to legally be shown in school are making me another proud drone (oh, I'm sorry, "citizen") of this great, wonderful America (didn't you know, the "United States" was dropped YEARS ago; it helps streamline user friendliness and adds that special GLOW to any police state fashionable for any occassion!)

However, the government has us in a trap, and that's where they want us. If we practice tax protest by not paying our taxes, we can be fined or even sent to jail. Additionally, not paying our taxes can cut off some vitally nice and important programs (that are just barely being financed or noticed) such as roads, bridges, community redevelopment etc. We may want to stop financing things like our obese military, our increasingly fascist cops, our useless Senate, or our corrupt Department of Homeland Security, but to stop paying them would take away things we want or things we need.

What citizens need to realize is that they have a right to decide where their tax money should be spent, to a degree. Unless we take action by forming small militia that value freedom (and not those dumb IRA rednecks who are being taken for a ride by the arms industry, the oil industry, and every other greedy landlord down south) we will never reclaim our country. The time for talk has ended, we need change, and clearly the approved democratic means for that have failed.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 May 2012 @ 5:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?...?
you are probably the most idiotically retarded motherfucker I have ever seen
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