More And More People Sign On To The Declaration Of Internet Freedom

from the good-news dept

Wed, Jul 25th 2012 5:09am — Mike Masnick

Earlier this month, we took part in the launch of The Declaration of Internet Freedom, which got a fair bit of attention, nearly all of it positive. There were a few critics, but it appears that an awful lot of people and organizations find themselves in agreement with these basic principles and are willing to sign on. Already over 1,500 organizations and 50,000 individuals have signed on, including at least two members of Congress (Ron Wyden in the Senate and Darrell Issa in the House).

There's also been a ton of ongoing discussion, including our own efforts over at Step2. These conversations continue to move forward, with various events being planned around the globe over the next few months to get more people talking about these principles and thinking about what they mean to them and why they're important. Either way, it seems this project is off to a nice start.

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Filed Under: declaration, internet freedom

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Adam Gorman (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:32am

I love the idea of a declaration of internet freedom and have often thought about it on a slightly deeper aspect.

Lets say in a hypothetical world that the internet becomes recognized as its own entity, and in a sense a 'country' and/or 'government' that is recognized mostly world wide.

My first thought, being an American and influenced by US government, was would there be an Internet President? Or could there be an internet representatives? or even internet ambassadors that go to real world events and governments to help ease tensions between the internet and existing governments?
Would we have an internet ambassador in each state or country?

Obviously a traditional system wouldn't work. The internet is about fluidity so for starters, there would be no 'set terms' or anything. But we also would need some more well spoken and educated people to handle certain affairs if the Internet was an entity onto itself in which every person in the world is a dual citizen of the internet.

There are a near endless amount of possibilities and what-ifs on how things could be handled. The one thing for certain though, if a system is put into place of some kind. It needs to be made to reflect the internet, and not have the internet mold to a system, because that would sort of defeat the whole point.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:37am

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/craigslist-sues-padmapper-for-copyright-infringement/

After reading that Craigslist was suing someone that made their service more useful, I do believe we desperately need those guidelines ASAP, pronto, yesterday.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:47am

Re:
Don't_worry_we're_from_the_internet.jpg
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:48am

i for one am really pleased with this news and hope there are many more that sign on in the not too distant future. however, i wonder if the world's governments will continue in the same vane they have up to now, ie, ignore all the advice and requests from the people/customers/independent experts and reports concerning the industries involved (you all know who you are!!) and listen only to those industries, thereby criminalizing just about every person with an internet connection and a computer. with the IFPI strategy report just posted here:

h**p://torrentfreak.com/leaked-report-reveals-music-industrys-global-anti-piracy-strategy-1 20725/

i foresee nothing other than more of the same!
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anona, 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:49am

Great
Just as long as the business entities that are joining do not try to overrule what the people want. If anything this should be about privacy and the right to share ideas and content with others.
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theDude, 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:50am

Darrell Issa
Its hard to feel very positive about anything this sleezy political hack is part of . . . politics makes strange bedfellows indeed.
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lolzzzzz, 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:57am

BS petition
"You must be an organization to sign here. Individuals may proceed to one of the below listed action pages."

I run the united hackers association for the past 18 years.
Let me know when it allows me as the organizations chairperson to sign up...till then have a nice uncensored free day.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 5:58am

Re:
not useful per se, they take all the info from what is oc craigslist and display it themselves, and profit off it, without doing anything themselves, they deserve the lawsuit
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Mesonoxian Eve (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:01am

Not to be a black cloud here, but this is pointless.

Every single one of you has had the power to protect internet freedom, but instead, you'd rather see The Dark Knight Rises, which funnels money to those who push bills to take away internet freedom.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

To protect, you must sacrifice.

How far are you willing to go to stop buying music, books, and movies? Will you let go of that iToy in order to make a stand against patents, which allows trolls to sue internet companies?

Remove the sources to the problems and everything else falls into place.

Psst... one of those problems is Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution. Good luck fixing it!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:03am

Re:
That report is priceless is just shows how clueless the MAFIAAtards really are.

They ask for unrestricted power to censor anything they don't like and can't seem to understand why so many people do not go along with it.

Or they do know that and made a conscious effort not to write down anything that would really put what they want into perspective.

Power to decide what happens to what apps or not, power to decide who can be on the internet or not, power to decide who can say, show, listen or do anything.

With a great example of how that will be abused on the FCC's open-set-top-box failed initiative.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/how-big-cable-killed-the-open-set-top-box-an d-what-to-do-about-it/

Even the FCC is now talking DMCA reform. That is of course the FCC wants to allow others to crack protections so people can deliver equipment to the market without having to go through a certification process that is totally controlled by cable companies that have zero interest in licensing others to do something.

That should be a big giant fraking red flag right there, we all know what happens if the MAFIAAtards get what they want, we are all screwed.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:04am

Nobody has posted a sniff of anything in 2 weeks on Step2. Why bother sending people over to a dead board? Admit it Mike, nice idea, but it's a failure.

Be the big man, admit it and move on.

Oh, how much RtB crap have you sold recently?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:04am

and it wont go anywhere, its all drivel, driven by freetard minded mouthbreathers
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silverscarcat (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:05am

Re:
I haven't been to a movie since Spider-man 3.

The only books I buy are light novels and graphic novels that are imported from Japan.

I don't buy or DL much music either.

I don't have an iToy.

I've been doing my part for years now.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:15am

Re:
I have had very similar thoughts myself, i think us as a people would benefit immensely from this, put back the power where it has always belonged

I also think that all these ideas to keep tabs on the people is perfect, albeit pointed in the wrong direction, i think the internet now provides the means and technology for every individual to be part of any given subject that our governments are a part of, do you see any governments sugesting giving US the ability to make sure were not being screwed, not bloody likely........until then, my privacy is my own, heaven help the PEOPLE whos government continues to ignores the shitstorm they are creating, because it is us who will suffer, for their greed and their stupidity..........for those who may have lost their way, please remember who you work for, before it is too late, for all our sakes, nothing good will come of this, i pray we realize this before it is too late.

Sorry for that terrible, totally unintentional speech at the end, it kinda snuck up on me that one.
Why leave it then, you say? *shrugs* .....why not

For our true and unequivocal freedom
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:16am

Re: Re:
Are you saying that people should have the power to censor others?

First: Data is not copyrightable or protectable under American law.

Second: They displayed the data in an useful format to others, that alone is doing something.

Third: Graiglist makes most of its money from people who pay them to place advertisements, they make next to nothing on advertisement themselves, which begs the question, why stop something that makes your adverts more visible and can make more people pay to place and advertisement there?
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Liz (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:16am

Re:
I agree on many points. The "Representation" for the Internet would be a lot like what made up the course of events that led to the SOPA/PIPA protests. Just a slew of ordinary, informed individuals that come together for a single purpose. Ebb and flow as you suggest.

The problem I see is that we will have successive generations (starting with arguably Generation X and their children and now grandchildren!) who don't see the internet as a separate world. But an integral part of the existing facets of modern life. It's as ubiquitous as coming home, plopping down on a couch and turning on the TV. For most people it's just "there." Well, for those people that still watch TV and haven't turned completely to the offerings of the digital space.

The global network that connects everyone who has access has become so integrated in modern society that it's fast becoming a part of culture and everyday life. Not so different than chatting up another passenger on the bus and showing off the baby pictures that you uploaded to imgur or photobook - whether or not the other passenger wishes to see your kid and would rather just listen to the playlist streaming from their iPhone.

And I think this is the core of where the resistance to online regulation falls. To continue the metaphor, it's like the city suddenly hiring bus monitors and making sure that everyone keeps perfectly still with their devices turned off. All the while installed video screens show a stream of advertisements and official political messages. The only recourse for "Rule Breakers" is to kick them off of the bus! For many people, there are no other alternatives as to how they go from point A to point B apart from walking. So they either comply with the absurdity or they resist and protest. Call up the city council and say, "Hey! I want to listen to my MP3 player or read my e-book. Not watch this regurgitation of candidates all spouting the same crap message!"

So how would it be possible to regulate the digital space? I realize here that the bus ride metaphor fails since public transportation is itself regulated to a degree and passengers are already restricted. Don't bring food or drink, don't step over the yellow line, (a safety issue) and a host of common courtesy rules that follow in the meatspace. Plus regulations on the bus service itself such as easy access for disabled people and equal access for all patrons regardless.

I think the question we should be asking is, WHO do we regulate for the digital part of our lives? The users or the providers? Try to regulate the users and you find yourself herding cats. You end up caging a bunch of them and all they can think to do is look for a way out for some other alternative.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:18am

Re:
Yes, because the desire for freedom is retarded.

Are you part of some sort of totalitarian regime?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:35am

Re:
It is amusing to watch Pirate Mike pretend. I can't wait 'til he and his band of merry idiots fire up the "cat signal." That's going to be a great whine-a-thon.
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silverscarcat (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:45am

Re: Re:
"It is amusing to watch Pirate Mike pretend. I can't wait 'til he and his band of merry idiots fire up the "cat signal." That's going to be a great whine-a-thon."

You mean like how Lamar Smith, Cary Sherman and Chris Dodd have whined about SOPA's failure?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:47am

Re: Re:
It could be incredibly useful to the users though, as Craigslist is a cesspit. I'm not even talking about the unsavory nature of some of the ads, I just mean the interface, search, and navigation.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:47am

Re: Re:
It could be incredibly useful to the users though, as Craigslist is a cesspit. I'm not even talking about the unsavory nature of some of the ads, I just mean the interface, search, and navigation.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:48am

Re: Re:
I guess piracy can be thought of a kind of protest if you were so inclined to do it

Eitherway, same boat, id rather go without out then to line the pockets of those who continually spit on our rights, might not happen soon, but they'll eventually feel the results when people on mass, wise up to the facts
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:52am

Re: Re:
Better a whiner then a traitor you ninny
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:56am

Re: Re:
What do you expect from his ilk, you cant profit from freedom, dont you know
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Zakida Paul (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 6:58am

Re:
We shouldn't really punish the people who created the content for the sins of the gate keepers, though.

In an ideal world, one would be able to download from anywhere and creators would have a donate function so people could give them the required money bypassing the gate keepers.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:02am

Re:
"Not to be a black cloud here, but this is pointless.

Every single one of you has had the power to protect internet freedom, but instead, you'd rather see The Dark Knight Rises, which funnels money to those who push bills to take away internet freedom."

You don't get it, do you?

People want what Hollywood is cooking, plain and simple. They aren't willing to sign off and stop consuming it, they even go to great lengths having better computers, faster connections, higher internet bills, larger hard drives, just to download it so they can tell their friends they saw it. It's what the cool kids do.

For all the arm waving, for all the jumping up and down, for all the "new business models" and "successful artists" out there, we are just not seeing anything that comes even marginally close to touching Hollywood for being the most desirable product.

Psst... one of those problems is at the end, "culture" is in fact what Hollywood makes. Turn off the switch, and you lose "culture". Hollywood is both the mirror of your life and the blazing light in the distance to aspire to.

Good luck getting around reality.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:03am

Re: Re:
"That's going to be a great whine-a-thon."

Oh, kind of like your comments in every single article going on and on about Pirate Mike's whining?

Do you realize how ironic it is that you say Mike whines constantly, when that is all you do yourself about Mike?

If you don't, you should realize it already. And... I don't know... MAYBE STOP WHINING ABOUT MIKE and actually say something as it pertains to the article at hand.

Oh, that and you know, you and your side are the biggest whiners in the world. "but but but piracy" "how can we compete with blah blah blah" "technology needs to stop advancing because it is putting us out to pasture" "we need more laws because blah blah blah" You know all that is a form of whining, right?

Poor, sad, troll AC. Has no point to make so he says others are whining. Quite pathetic.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:07am

Re: Re:
Mike actaully provides data and logic to his complaints.

You on the other hand do nothing but whine.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:11am

Re: Re: Re:
Pirate Mike spouts all kinds of things that he can't back up, and when called out on it, he runs away and stomps his feet. I have bookmarks to over a hundred posts where Mike ran away without defending his silly statements. One day for fun I'll post the list. It's hilarious. Data and logic? LOL!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you have proof then show it.

Looking at mike's past posts he's the one who refutes and it's his opponents who run away or resort to namecalling.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh, you're the same AC who says Mike refuses to debate you. Because we all know how much fun it is to debate someone who has been quoted as saying "fuck off and die". Yeah, if I were Mike I wouldn't acknowledge you either. Must be quite upsetting to realize there are people out there who won't bother to acknowledge your stupidity. It's hilarious. Data and logic and a proper debate? FROM YOU? LOL!!!

I think if you post that list, Mike should be a dick and post one too. One consisting of a link to every single one of your comments. As far back as he can find. Of course, you'll still be the same "Anonymous Coward" with no info revealed about you, beyond putting your comments together, but hey. Them's the breaks. You want a real debate, pick a name and stick to it. Don't even have to register. Like that we can see which comments are yours. Otherwise, you're acting like the real coward who can't be held accountable for his own words. "It wasn't me who said that, must've been some other AC." Real classy move there, chief.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:16am

Re:
Oh! Is this the debate you've been taunting Mike about?
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:21am

Re: Re:
Spoken like a good little ooMPAA looMPAA.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And when someone lists his posts he'll think there using them ip addresses instead of just searching "pirate mike" and looking at the style of writing.

OMG HOW DARE YOU VIOLATE THE PRIVACY OF COMMENTS I KNOWINGLY MADE PUBLIC!
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:22am

Re:
Translation: *whine* *whine* why everyone is whining *whine* *whine*.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:22am

Re:
Every single one of you has had the power to protect internet freedom, but instead, you'd rather see The Dark Knight Rises, which funnels money to those who push bills to take away internet freedom.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

When a content creator, even if it is a major studio or label, creates quality content and offers it for a reasonable price, in a convenient and desireable manner, then why shouldn't we support them? We should encourage that! And we should tell them why we're buying.

Yes, I went to see The Dark Knight. Why? It was a social experience to go see it with friends at the midnight opening showing. Social experience is something which cannot be pirated, and I'm willing to pay for it.

Will I buy the DVD or a digital download? Unlikely - but I may decide to pirate it - most likely because of price or silly restrictions. And I'll say why I didn't buy it.

Remove the sources to the problems and everything else falls into place.

As much as I would love to see the complete collapse of the legacy industries, it is highly improbable. Since I think we'd agree that they pay attention to money - we show them how they can get our money by paying for the options that work for us, and not buying those that don't. They will follow the money - or go out of business.

At the same time, we fight against the laws they try to push by telling our elected officials that they're supposed to work for us, not Hollywood, and we can vote them out.
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Privacy is for pirates! Hey, stop violating my privacy you pirate!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Why should mike stay around and respond to you when what your obviously doing is goading him.......how stupid do you think people are, or is it, you think your intelligence is beyond reproach, that we can never figure out your ingenious plan........whats the next step, misquote something he says, and say, see, i was right.......how childish, and transparent, which is a surprise, the "transparent" bit

ninny
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Exactly. I mean Mike doesn't even have to point out his comments. "Pirate Mike" and "why won't you debate me" and a couple of other of his usual ad hom comments and he's pretty obvious.

All his post are the same, slight variants of course at times. But he pretty much gives himself up within seconds. It's like, "Oh, it's the why won't you debate me guy. I can ignore him."
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gnudist, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Don't think that's it.

For the troll AC to think his intelligence is beyond reproach he'd have to have some to begin with.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:29am

Re: Re: Re:
Such a deep and meaningful comeback. I take it that you agree with me completely, because you have nothing to add, no valid argument.

Congrats, welcome to the relatively silent majority.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:35am

Re: Re:
Im a beer dude myself, thanks for asking
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes my little pet, keep the propaganda wheels turning, your master is pleased
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:48am

Come on lads, a show of hands here, if you believe in it shout it

FREEDOM
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Mesonoxian Eve (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 7:57am

Re: Re:
"We shouldn't really punish the people who created the content for the sins of the gate keepers, though."
Apologist thinking, frankly.

Again, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Yes, it sucks some good content creators are locked into using models which abuse these laws, but they're not making a stand, either.

It's even more troubling when their desire to make money prevents them from doing right, and that's telling their distributors "Shape up or you get nothing from me."

Oh, right. Contracts and all that.

Even still, the fact these labels and distributors keep making them shows people just don't care when there's a check waving in front of them.

It's going to suck to lose the internet, but it's inevitable. Corporations will ensure they get control, one way or another.

All because people make excuses to see the latest airing of a show they "can't live without" while funding the loss of the internet.

I can't reason with this type of thinking.
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drew (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:09am

Re:
* raises hand *
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drew (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:19am

Re: Re:
""culture" is in fact what Hollywood makes"
I'd disagree, culture is created by society, Hollywood provides an input to this but what is accepted and embraced is a subset of that.
Frequently Hollywood's content is just a re-working of the current culture (see super-hero movies and re-makes ad nauseam).

You're right on one point though, people do want what hollywood is creating, but they don't want the baggage and bullshit that goes with it. Make a good movie and people are happy to pay to go see it or buy the DVD or rent it from their service of choice.
What people are becoming increasingly intolerant of is the unnecessary restrictions that get in the way of them consuming the content. DRM, windowed releases and stupid anti-piracy adverts being some that spring immediately to mind.

Now all these things are being provided by alternative sources, maybe embracing what technology offers will help Hollywood handle the current reality.

At the moment copyright is a niche issue, but it's becoming increasingly mainstream, companies that treat their customers well will have an advantage as this trend continues.
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MrWilson, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:29am

Re: Re: Re:
Your inability to find a solution that works with the inclinations of the masses rather works against them will be the cause of your failure. I'm right there with you as far as ideology, but you have to recognize what can work and what won't. To effect change you need leverage to force those with power to go along with, rather than oppose, your change and you need to garner the support of the people who don't care or are afraid to challenge the status quo, and you can't do that effectively by taking away their pacifiers but not giving them something else to replace them.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:33am

Re:
The internet won't change the way we are governed to the point of eliminating local governments. There will be no "President of the Internet", rather the internet is more likely going to get clawed back to reality, being on par with every day real life, subject to jurisdiction, taxes, and all those other horrible things that happen in real life.

Thinking that you can start Utopia on top of the current system is bath salts smoking material.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:35am

Re: Re:
What world do you live in again? Hollywood is making, what they think will gain them the highest profit margin. It is big business and not much else. Trying to give a soul to the lowest common denominator is frankly offensive...
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MrWilson, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:37am

Re: Re:
Culture is a dialogue and the works that artists create that the major entertainment studios sell are just one side of the conversation. Culture isn't a purely consumptive experience. Culture isn't just watching Star Wars. It's playing Luke Skywalker for Halloween and filming you own fan film and posting it on YouTube. It's modifying Game of Thrones footage to insert lightsabers or photoshopping squirrels with lightsabers. Culture exists between speaker and society, between the artist and the audience. It flows both ways and everyone is a member of both the artists and the audience.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:39am

Re:
You are right. It's kind of sad to watch Mike continue to administer CPR to a corpse.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Or he is good at finding endorsement from likeminded people. I think he is as vanilla as trolls come. Straight to the root with nothing but ad hominum, false promises and empty threats. He needs the spice of trolling, which is clever taunts and trapping the readers thoughts. Instead he just comes off as a 12 year old. If I were Mr. Masnick I would rather call his psychiatrist than himself.
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gnudist, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:48am

Re: Re: Re:
Have some chesse all the same
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Jeff (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 9:09am

Re:
** Raises both hands **
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gnudist, 25 Jul 2012 @ 9:10am

Re:
*Raises hands, feet and penis*
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 9:25am

Re: Re:
People want what Hollywood is cooking, plain and simple. They aren't willing to sign off and stop consuming it, they even go to great lengths having better computers, faster connections, higher internet bills, larger hard drives, just to download it so they can tell their friends they saw it.

All true.

Also true: People want to consume that content in easy and convenient ways for a reasonable price.

For all the arm waving, for all the jumping up and down, for all the "new business models" and "successful artists" out there, we are just not seeing anything that comes even marginally close to touching Hollywood for being the most desirable product.

For all the whining about piracy, for all the bought politicians and pushed legislation, we are not seeing anything from Hollywood that resembles acknowledging that markets change and giving people what they want is a good business.

Good luck getting around reality.
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Mesonoxian Eve (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 9:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The problem is, a solution is never a compromise. It's always one-sided, and the favor is rarely the side which is asking for so, so little in the demands.

Look at the Declaration. Closely.

The fact we have to even draft it is the problem. I'm not opposed to the models. I'm opposed to the abuse those models continually, over decades, continue to push, as with anyone else.

What do we call situations to which no compromise is given? Dictatorship? Censorship? There are many.

To make matters worse:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2012/07/stewart-colbert-re-up-at- comedy-central-/1#.UBAe4qDuinY

This isn't a compromise, now is it. These two make millions for CC, and it's parent, Viacom.

Given the choices of "what can work and what won't", guess where my option rests.

Again, I can't reason with this.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 9:41am

Re: Re:
Thats the spirit, although, im not sure the feet count :)
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yesss... my precious Hollywood, you and I are going to be very happy.

Let's get rid of the horrible piratssess... you all agree with me, don't you?

Mmm... Hollywood shapes reality, yesss...
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MrWilson, 25 Jul 2012 @ 10:25am

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You seem to be looking to change human nature. There will always be an element of the population that looks to control the rest and exploit any situation or rules. If you don't write down the rules, they'll say there are no rules since they're not written down. If you write down the rules, they'll corrupt the system and change the rules to benefit themselves or they'll lawyer their way through loopholes in the rules. They'll keep pushing until someone somewhere gives them the inch that they need to go a mile. If anyone has the power to good, they will be able to do ill as well and, despite all good intentions, they will be corrupted to some extent by that power. Look at the French Revolution. The good guy revolutionaries become the bad guys and start the reign of terror.

The only true cure for this is to end the human race. And that's not possible, much less preferable. Or maybe you want to impose a dictatorship? To have the ability to unilaterally make every "fair" and make everyone follow "fair" rules (in your judgement) is inherently unfair and will only end in more revolution and bloodshed.

If you won't compromise and you can't create some totalitarian yet paradoxically just society, you're going to have to be pretty clever to come up with a new solution that no one has thought of.
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gnudist, 25 Jul 2012 @ 10:34am

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Do women get counted double if they go tits up?
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akp, 25 Jul 2012 @ 10:35am

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I made a campaign bumper sticker for President of the Internet
http://i.imgur.com/dh0kw.jpg
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 12:06pm

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"Also true: People want to consume that content in easy and convenient ways for a reasonable price."

Yes, and they will do the most inconvenient things to do it, which suggests it is driven much more by price than anything else.

Searching P2P sites, downloading files that may or may not work, may or may not have the content, and may or may not play to the end - and that take time to download in many cases - isn't exactly convenient. It's avoidance of payment at play here for the most part.

As long as mob rules is the game, people will do it. Unmasked, people generally stop pirating.

But all of your post is just showing how you don't want to look at reality, you only want to look at the pro-piracy side of things. Good luck. Do you own a parrot?
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gnudist, 25 Jul 2012 @ 12:30pm

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Pirates will buy if it's cheap and convenient like steam.

And then there's people who don't really have to money to be spending on content so the only way to get it is to go to where it's free.

Also I'd like to know when bringing up ways to get people to buy products willingly became "pro piracy"
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 12:57pm

Re:
I nominate the lolcat for president.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 1:44pm

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Searching P2P sites, downloading files that may or may not work, may or may not have the content, and may or may not play to the end - and that take time to download in many cases - isn't exactly convenient.

Geeze, was the last time you looked at filesharing back in the Kazaa/Grokster days? It is much easier, faster, and more convenient than it used to be. You almost never run into any of those issues if you have even the slightest idea of what you're doing (and if you don't, its quite easy to learn quickly).

I can start a torrent download faster than I can get a DVD off the shelf and put it in my player.

I'm ignoring reality?

PAY ATTENTION:
Give me a service that I can do the same thing on, without restrictions as to what device I can play it on, or what times I can watch it, without waiting, for a reasonable price, and I will pay money for it.

If you still think this is about not paying, then you are ignoring reality.

And if you want to talk about parrots, perhaps you should look in the mirror, since all you're doing is parroting certain trade organization's talking points.
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gnudist, 25 Jul 2012 @ 1:54pm

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Pff, Tubgirl has a better plan for the economy
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JMT (profile), 25 Jul 2012 @ 2:43pm

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"I have bookmarks to over a hundred posts where Mike ran away without defending his silly statements. One day for fun I'll post the list."

Two possibilities:

You're lying, making vague threats which are not very threatening.

Or, you actually are demonstrating obsessive/compulsive tendencies, because what you describe is not normal behaviour.

I'd drop this lame line of attack because I'd be embarrassed to admit to either option.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2012 @ 8:41pm

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There is a third possiblity:

he is right.

Mike is a very busy man, all the quiet political work and such that he doesn't like to talk about. Mike often comes into a discussion after being asked pointedly about something, drop an insult bomb, and leaves without answering the point at all. Oh, then he never, ever comes back.

The only time Mike comes back is when he is trying to drive out someone he has spotted a "shill" or shit disturber, and then he will go full on insult mode, calling the poster out, claiming they are uneducated, acting childish, or some combination of both. All through that, he rarely if ever actually addresses the points head on, but deflects and sinks quickly into the insults.

For a guy who pushed interaction with fans and back and forth debating, he certainly doesn't do it much. In this regard, he is much more Steve Jobs, fast to call you out as an asshole.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2012 @ 2:13am

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I dont think so, but no harm in trying
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2012 @ 5:03am

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By that possibility I take that to mean that he, in fact, has over a hundred bookmarks where he alleges that this has happened. Whether it actually happened, I'd think, is suspect, as is said AC's quality of debate. I'm not keen to give the benefit of doubt to someone whose debate primarily comprises insults.
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gnudist, 26 Jul 2012 @ 6:07am

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Wow, you're completly disconnected from reality if you think Mike just tosses insults.

Every time I see Mike respond it's always by refuting other's points with facts and logic. If he calls someone out as a shill there'a always a pattern of shill-like behavior.
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JMT (profile), 27 Jul 2012 @ 2:13am

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"Mike often comes into a discussion after being asked pointedly about something, drop an insult bomb, and leaves without answering the point at all."

Bullshit. Prove it.
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