Former Marine Detained, Held For A Month For Posting Conspiracy Theories, Rap Lyrics To Facebook

from the free-speech? dept

Thu, Aug 23rd 2012 8:17am — Mike Masnick

We were just discussing how some in law enforcement are overreacting to "threats" on Facebook, and someone in the comments pointed us to the case of Brandon Raub, which we had been unfamiliar with. Raub, a former Marine, posted some of his concerns about the government to his Facebook page, along with some rap lyrics. Raub's views definitely fall into what many consider to be conspiracy theory territory -- claiming 9/11 was an inside job, talking about the Illuminati controlling the world, etc. He also did make vague references to the idea that a "revolution is coming" and that a "civil war" was coming -- and even said that "I'm starting the revolution. I'm done waiting." The only directly "violent" thing he posted -- which gets covered in all of the press about Raub's situation -- is the line: "'Sharpen up my axe; I'm here to sever heads." Of course, what nearly everyone who quotes that line leaves out is that it's a lyric to the rap song Bring Me Down by the group Swollen Members.

Either way, it seems that these statements on his Facebook page resulted in him being detained in a psychiatric ward. A recent hearing ended with a decision that he needs to stay there for another 30 days. While government officials say he wasn't arrested, the video footage of law enforcement officials handcuffing him and pushing him into a police car sure looks like an arrest: It appears that a lot of folks have been speaking out about this -- with reasonable concern over whether or not the government is monitoring (private) Facebook pages, as was the case with Raub's page. Of course, it's more likely that some of his Facebook friends were somewhat concerned and "reported" his page. There's been a lot of talk about Raub's case -- especially in libertarian circles -- and many of them do ignore some of the statements he made that could at least raise some concerns from some people, though the context matters a great deal.

That said, many others are quite reasonably concerned that a few comments involving conspiracy theories and angry rap lyrics can get one carted off by the government to a psychiatric ward for over a month. In an interview from the ward, Raub notes that he'd actually been leaning towards re-enlisting right before all of this happened.

No matter what, the situation raises some serious questions about free speech rights with regards to social networks these days. While I don't have an issue with people investigating the details of a situation if comments could reasonably be interpreted to be a possible warning sign of a threat, it's troubling how these same comments could be taken out of context and mean nothing in terms of an actual threat. The fact that he ends up in a psych ward against his and his family's own best wishes is, at the very least, a big concern.

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Filed Under: brandon raub, civil liberties, free speech

106 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:23am

Act like a nutjob, you get treated like one.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:24am

Re:
Too bad that doesn't work with politicians...
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Dementia (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:36am

Re:
Except that it's well within your rights to act like a nutjob, if you so choose. As long as he didn't actually attempt to infringe on anyone's rights, or harm himself, he didn't do anything to justify this treatment.
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mojaveburning, 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:38am

Re:
Soooo.... by using your right to free speech, you do realize that makes you a nutjob too, based on your insightful opinion.
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Forest_GS (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:38am

I saw this a couple of days ago on another site;
http://allnewsanonymous.blogspot.com/2012/08/former-marine-indefinitely-detained.html

I thought the site was a bit sketchy at first, but seeing one of the stories it was covering on TechDirt has convinced me of it's authenticity.
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Curt (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:40am

Well if he was a marine
we know he's clearly violent and murderous, and has all the training he needs to become a successful terrorist, even if he does just have a sharp axe (I am completely pro-axe control, btw). I'm just surprised people like him are allowed to walk the street.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:52am

I don't have a Facebook account. If someone pretends to be me and posts silly rants about aliens being behind 9/11 or whatever, will I end up in a psych ward?

And what if someone's account gets broken into? What if someone's careless with their laptop, or falls for a phishing scam or something?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:54am

Re:
I'm not about to get a Facebook account either. Stuff like this makes it clear that if you want to be able to speak freely, you need to speak anonymously. (Or at least pseudonymously.)
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:56am

It's a fine line. Imagine if the government was made aware of his ravings and did nothing and he opened fire on shoppers in a mall a week later. Then what?
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weneedhelp (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:03am

Re: Re:
Or Anonymous Cowards.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:04am

Normally I agree
Normally I agree with this blog, and the overstepping of governments and the ridiculous antics of people, but this is very slanted.

The guy deserved to be detained. He was making repeated violent threats against people, and trying to downplay his desire for a "revolution" is being naive.

Sure, the axe comment was a lyric, but so what? Does it mean any less because of that? He was a MARINE. Trained to kill, talking about killing and starting a civil war.

Yeah, lets let this nut-job slide until he shows up to your next movie premiere.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:05am

Re:
Yes, the simple explanation here is that this man is crazy.
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Pixelation, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:10am

Re: Normally I agree
I was thinking the same thing. He sounds like someone interested in making headlines.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:11am

Re:
Then he'd be arrested for opening fire on shoppers in a mall?

You can't apprehend people for what you think they might do sometime in the future.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:33am

Re: Normally I agree
Sure, the axe comment was a lyric, but so what? Does it mean any less because of that? He was a MARINE. Trained to kill, talking about killing and starting a civil war.

I think I recall that the Columbine killers were found of quoting violent lyrics in advance of their cowardly attack.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:35am

Re: Re:
You can't apprehend people for what you think they might do sometime in the future.

That is simply untrue.
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Jake, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:38am

I'm also going to vote with giving the cops the benefit of the doubt on this one. The stuff he posted on Facebook certainly justifies sending a couple of officers over to ask him a few pointed questions and maybe encourage him to seek some help. Maybe they found stuff at his house that suggested he was planning to put his money where his mouth was?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:49am

So what your saying is Turgid Cocks Severs Heads and a Marine goes to the Looney Bin.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:55am

Re: Re:
You can't apprehend people for what you think they might do sometime in the future.

Did you even read the article and watch the video? The fact that this guy was apprehend for what others think he MIGHT DO some time in the future, proves you wrong.
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John Doe, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:57am

Re: Re:
Did you not see Minority Report? That movie is not fiction but actually a documentary of the future. ;)
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Davey, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:58am

The "authorities" sure caught hell
for "not doing something about" the Batman murderer before he did the deed. It's an impossibly fine line.
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weneedhelp (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:03am

Re: Normally I agree
You know AC with the home depot like avatar, the same argument could have been made for the founding fathers.
" trying to downplay his desire for a "revolution" is being naive. "

Dont kid yourself. If the GOV keeps tightening the noose it will be inevitable, a civil war. Or do you think the sheeple will just accept being RFID implanted and every action, transaction, and word uttered be monitored and stored for future or real-time scrutiny?
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Gimiesome (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:04am

9-11
If you watch this it adds to his story....What a wicked web we weave.
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Mike42 (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:06am

Re:
I'm with Jake. I'd rather see him evaluated if he's crazy enough to put this stuff out in public. If he doesn't want to go nicely... but then, I think a hell of a lot of people need evaluation.
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Jeremy, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:08am

What did they put on the warrant?
oh right, he was just "detained", not "arrested".. well there's no law on detention is there?

/willing to accept correction by a lawyer on that point.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:09am

Just for the record, he was initially detained for 72 hours. During that time, a determination was made that he should be held for 30 days.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:09am

Just for the record, he was initially detained for 72 hours. During that time, a determination was made that he should be held for 30 days.
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Gimiesome (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:10am

CIA Asset Susan Lindauer Can Now Speak 10 years after 9-11.
http://youtu.be/iGI4jfwOmOk
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Davey, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:10am

Different strokes
Funny how a Republican Texas judge and Republican County Chair can spew shit like this on network tv without fear of consequences: Obama will
try to give the sovereignty of the United States away to the United Nations. What do you think the public's going to do when that happens? We are talking civil unrest, civil disobedience, possibly, possibly civil war ... I'm not talking just talking riots here and there. I'm talking Lexington, Concord, take up arms, get rid of the dictator.

I guess he couldn't possibly be certifiable or a threat because he's a Republican judge, not some guy on Facebook. And the bright folks around Lubbock think his judgement is so good they decided to pay him for it. He won't be going to the psych ward anytime soon. At worst he'll decide to spend more time with his family while collecting a nice fat pension for the rest of his life.

More: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/us/texas-judge-warning/index.html
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Devils_Advocate (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:13am

"Conspiracy theories" come in all forms...
"Raub's views definitely fall into what many consider to be conspiracy theory territory -- claiming 9/11 was an inside job..."

I would challenge anyone to explain how the "official" 9/11 Report doesn't also qualify as a conspiracy theory.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:14am

Re: Normally I agree
False dichotomy presented by AC. "letting him slide" is not the only option. The other option is friends, family, and concerned people taking action to help someone gain perspective on life. Police detention is completely inappropriate.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:15am

Re: Re: Re:
If that isn't true, why are the politicians not behind bars?
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Bender, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:17am

Re: Well if he was a marine
Fully automatic axes have only one use, kill all humans.
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gorehound (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:17am

Re: Different strokes
Was Reading about that Asshole Judge too !
Things could go South really bad in the next Year to 15 years.
And this is how we put someone away for as long as we want to without ever seeing a Judge and being Charged with a Crime.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:29am

Re:
Yup, anyone who has been in the US armed forces probably need their heads examined in the first place.

Interesting that the difference between the brave heroic types who are part of the slaughter large numbers of men,women and children in other countries and crazy conspiracy theorists is so small.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:30am

Re: Re:
Does that count as trolling btw?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:31am

Re: Well if he was a marine
" I'm just surprised people like him are allowed to walk the street."

I presume you mean the streets of the US. I imagine you were all in favours of that kind of crazy loon walking the streets of Bahdad, Kabul, etc.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:33am

Re: Re: Normally I agree
The key question is, is he also religious.
If he is, then the chances that he would be dangerously violent go way up.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:35am

Re: Re: Different strokes
I thought that was Guantanamo.
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Atkray (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:37am

Re: Re:
He did infringe,

He posted copyrighted lyrics without permission.

After all who does the FBI work for anyways?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:40am

someone please tell me exactly what anyone says, writes, does, listens to, reads or where they go that governments dont know about? we have a completely fucked up, totally paranoid set of governments that try to learn as much as possible from each other, while withholding as much as possible from each other and thinking that everyone is a terrorist apart from those that actually are! the way things are going, i dont think we need to worry too much about global warming wiping us out or the Mayan calendar prophecy coming true. i reckon we'll beat both to it all on our own!!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:41am

Re: Re: Normally I agree
>do you think the sheeple will just accept being RFID implanted and every action, transaction, and word uttered be monitored and stored for future or real-time scrutiny?

Yes.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:55am

Re: What did they put on the warrant?
In the US, "detained" and "arrested" are two related, but different, things -- but they are both defined and have rules associated with them.

In short, detentions are shorter and more limited in scope, and carry a lower burden of proof.

However, in this case I think it's a psychiatric detention, which is a little bit different. They have cause to believe that he may present an immediate danger to others, and are detaining him pending a psychiatric evaluation.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:56am

Re:
In my state, then, he is no longer "detained". He is being subject to a "psychiatric hold", which is neither arrest nor detention.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:02am

Re: Normally I agree
Well, there was this one movie called Minority Report that suggested incarcerating people before they did stuff...
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William Chambers, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:13am

Nope, they got it right
The dude's quite possibly unstable. They didn't lock him up for life, they got him evaluated for his mental health which can indeed take time. Better safe then sorry and as someone who has seen the effects unknown mental illnesses can cause, He may well end up lucky that he was forced into it.

The sad thing is that naturally people think they're perfectly fine, even if everyone in their family can see it. Usually there's nothing that can be done to even get them diagnosed.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:14am

Re: Re:
Of course you can. Tom Cruise did it in Minority Report and if Tom Cruise can do something that means I can too. Now, I need to go find Oprah's couch to jump on.
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weneedhelp (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:15am

Re: Re: Re: Normally I agree
Sadly, I agree.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:27am

Re: Nope, they got it right
"The sad thing is that naturally people think they're perfectly fine, even if everyone in their family can see it."

And on a wider scale, that mentally ill individual, is the united states.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:28am

Re: Re: Different strokes
And speaking of justification for psychiatric detention...... cue Gorehound.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:29am

And there ya go... he's been released: http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/virginia-news/2012/aug/23/14/judge-says-he-will-order-release-mar ine-veteran-he-ar-2151347/
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:31am

Re: Re: Normally I agree
Being questioned by the police was a fair and rational response. The detention came after evaluating him... kind of proving that they made the right call.

Granted its not the ONLY option, but forgive me if I don't trust a potential psychopath's "friends and family" to stop a potential disaster.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:33am

Re: Re: Normally I agree
He wasnt arrested, he was detained. He also wasnt charged with murderizing people. So yes, the movie is sort of relevant, but then not at all.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:34am

Re: Re: Re:
Reminds me of Minority Report.
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weneedhelp (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:34am

Re: Normally I agree
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. - Was this guy a nut job?

"We, the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." - How about this one?

"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Or this guy

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear private arms." - Or this guy?

You need to wake up.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:37am

Code Red!
Conspiracy theory nut-jobs are dangerous enough.. but when they're also ex-marines with weapons training...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:52am

Sheesh, dude is venting or being weird and eccentric. I'm thinking "is that all?"

People seem to think, for some insane reason, that putting your venting/eccentric antics on the internet suddenly makes it more real.

I have friends like this guy that I can totally see sharpening an axe in front of me going "I'm gonna chop people's heads off so I can appease the great dragon!" and my response will be something along the lines of "Whatever Brad, there something you want to talk about or did you forget your meds again?"
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That One Guy (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: Re: Normally I agree
Wait, what?

He wasn't arrested(which would involve him being detained), he was only detained(without being arrested), and that's supposed to be a good thing?
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weneedhelp (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 12:04pm

Re:
Circuit Judge W. Allan Sharrett said an involuntary commitment petition issued against Brandon J. Raub was invalid because it contained no allegation or basis to holding him.

And there YOU go.
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weneedhelp (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 12:07pm

Re: Code Red!
People that think like you are more dangerous to our liberties and freedom than any conspiracy theory nut jobs out there.
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DMNTD, 23 Aug 2012 @ 12:37pm

predict.
This whole idea you mental nut jobs have of future crime is a crime in itself. You think there is some kind of betterment in using sci-fi to decide what someone is going to do? So the powers at be make up fan art and then say that is your future, that's what you want? I refute your future crime and DNA sabotage to "make a better race". They are parallel ideas, and warrant psych help in my opinion.

The crackpots who took this guy in need to be reprimanded and then ostracized. It's also funny some of you point out that he is a trained killer...HILARIOUS, for all these "trained killers" are never properly brought back into society with proper treatment after going out and being exactly what the army trains them to be. I wonder why?
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Loki, 23 Aug 2012 @ 12:58pm

Re:
Only when the "nutjob" speaks out against the entire establishment.

If your statement were correct, Micheal Moore and Anne Coulter would have been sharing adjoining cells years ago.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 1:08pm

not under arrest
yet still stuck in an 8x10 cell? excuse me, patient room
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:31pm

Re: Normally I agree
Your comment has made me very uncomfortable. What kind of person would say "Yeah, lets let this nut-job slide until he shows up to your next movie premiere?" Sounds like you are advocating violence. I am now calling the authorities to report you and have you held for psychiatric evaluation. I hope you understand.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:33pm

Re: Well if he was a marine
Wow. I HOPE TO GOD THAT YOU REALIZE IT COULD BE POST TRAUMATIC STRESS SYNDROME. EVEN IF IT YOU'RE COMMENT WAS MEANT FOR A LAUGH I FIND IT HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE AND DUSTASTEFUL THST YOU WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT REGARDING SOMEONE WHO SERVED MY COUNTRY. I HOPE YOURE HAPPY ASSHOLE, YOU'VE PISSED ME OFF.....HENCE THE ALL CAPS RESPONSE.

Now that I have had a chance to vent. Let me explain to you that the shit Marines go through behind the enemy lines is extremely detrimental to mental health. Yes he probably should have reported to the US Navy's Section 8 befor shipping out, but psychologically he doesn't think he needs to. It's called Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. The shockwaves of the various gunshots and explosions this man has heard over the years has damaged his brain at a neurological level. So maybe you should lay off the "people like that shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets" shit. He's as human as you and I are and I wish that you would have understood that being a human yourself, but you failed at it. So please next time you ever have a thought like that, please consider that he is a fucking human being who deserves the right to be helped as a human and not to be shut away from the world because he's labeled as "crazy".
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re:
what stuff did he say (not publicly, his facebook was set to private) that you think was inappropriate? I've heard many people complain about what he said, and agree that he needed to be hauled out of his home for some reason, but no one has told specifically what they objected to, or what law he broke by exercising his first amendment rights. Basically it has all boiled down to "well I certainly don't share his sentiments, and the idea that someone would say such things makes me very uncomfortable. DETAIN HIM!"

Psychiatric wards have a long history of being used to slander and discredit political prisoners.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:38pm

Re: Re: Re:
If this is untrue then the police need to give every one speeding tickets because they know they'll speed. I'm sur the insurance companies were behind this as well.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:39pm

Re: Re:
Im glad you see it as I do. He is human and needs a human touch to cope with his neurological condition. Psychiatric hold and evaluation would be perfectly humane in the coping process.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Normally I agree
"Granted its not the ONLY option, but forgive me if I don't trust a potential psychopath's "friends and family" to stop a potential disaster."

Adding to this as a psychologist, you should never trust any diagnosis unless done by a professional. Friends and family are the single worst proponents in recognizing this type of neurological disorder because they are biased in how they see him. They see him from what their homeostasis allows them to see. If they don't "seem to notice" irradic behaviors it's because they were conditioned not to see them because he wasn't like that before he shipped off to the Marines.
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Rekrul, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:19pm

I suppose if I were to post the Aliens quote about "nuke the site from orbit" in relation to the government or even the MPAA/RIAA, I'd be tossed in Gitmo for life...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:27pm

Re:
And never mind the Constitution.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:45pm

Re:
Then shit happens.

Imagine if the environment were being destroyed and death and misery on a massive scale were already beginning to be realized while for decades governments around the world have done next to or worse than nothing to avert any of it. Wouldn't that be worse than a mere mall shooting?

Imagine if the US and UK government convinced everyone to wage a war on a third world people over imaginary weapons of mass destruction, leading to the deaths of probably hundreds of thousands of people and no one did anything about that. Wouldn't that be worse than a mere mall shooting?

When it comes to intimidating and stripping the populice of their civil rights, any hint of a threat is sufficient justification for any degree or kind of over reaction or absurdity, but when it comes to real and present threats and harms, it's all just "too hard" and we pretend that these things are inevitabilities that no one is really blameworthy for.

Our risk perception is badly skewed so that we sense a huge risk is letting law abiding people walk free, but none in letting the state invoke the mere hint of the possibility of a potential threat as an excuse to lock away law abiding people. That's crazy-dellusional.

We need to stop stomping on the faces of the mostly powerless as an excuse to be distracted from those who are powerful enough to do real wide spread harms at the stroke of a pen, and who having been getting away with their destructive harmful crap. Meanwhile everyone else is made to bicker and look with suspicion on each other while tossing blame and hysteria back and forth amongst ourselves.

Moral hysterias over freak incidents involving the relatively powerless keep us from looking up and asking the really tough questions of our so called elites.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:49pm

Re:
I don't believe for a moment such evidence would not have been widely publicised.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 5:05pm

Re:
Do you know what research and freespeech mean?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 5:42pm

Kinda old Russian empire type action eh? Putting "political" prisoners in the insane asylum.
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btrussell (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 7:28pm

Re: Re: Normally I agree
All hear my warning
Never turn your back
On the ripper
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:52pm

Re: "Conspiracy theories" come in all forms...
"I would challenge anyone to explain how the "official" 9/11 Report doesn't also qualify as a conspiracy theory."

We have tons of recorded evidence to back up the claims that the report convey's. This includes conversations recorded on Flight 93 that was supposed to hit Cleveland.

A lot of conspiracy theorists believed 9/11 was an inside job because of political motivation. They failed to account for the fact that there was a lot of recorded evidence and scientific tests done to confirm how the steel failed in the towers.

For the jet fuel fire vs the steel I-Beems test. It took 30 minutes for the steel to bend like gack being stretched out.

The Pentagon's holes should not be bigger on the inside is a favorite among them too. They fail to account for the shockwave and dabrye expanded the size of the hole in the next wall.

As for your comment, there was irrefutable scientific evidence and recorded personal accounts of passengers compiled to create that report.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:58pm

Re:
Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.....Look it up.....you might learn something.
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cgt (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:50pm

Re: Re: Well if he was a marine
>EVEN IF IT YOU'RE COMMENT

You're: a contraction of "you" and "are" (example usage: you're not good at grammar)
Your: possessive form of "you" (example usage: your teacher didn't teach you grammar)
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:07pm

Re: Nope, they got it right
Mike Mansick, may I be as so bold as to suggest that this part of the comment by William Cambers be first word?:

"The dude's quite possibly unstable. They didn't lock him up for life, they got him evaluated for his mental health which can indeed take time. Better safe then sorry and as someone who has seen the effects unknown mental illnesses can cause, He may well end up lucky that he was forced into it."

And the second part of the same comment be the final word?:

"The sad thing is that naturally people think they're perfectly fine, even if everyone in their family can see it. Usually there's nothing that can be done to even get them diagnosed."
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:11pm

Re: Re: Nope, they got it right
*William Chambers

Sorry for the muck up :-)
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:20pm

Re: Re: Nope, they got it right
Ok, I've got a question I like answered for you specifically. Try not to take offense because of the question.

What country are you from?
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:40pm

Re:
I vote this First Word.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:41pm

Re: Nope, they got it right
I vote this as Final Word
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:47pm

What, that they're using PTSD to detain people in asylums?
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Mike Masnick (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:05am

Re:
Imagine if the government was made aware of his ravings and did nothing and he opened fire on shoppers in a mall a week later.

So according to you the only choices are "do nothing" and "lock him up for a month"?

Some of the adults in the room realize that there's a wide spectrum of responses that could be taken, and (as expressed in the article you clearly did not read) believe that perhaps it should be further in one direction on that spectrum, not all the way at the extreme end.
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:23am

Re: Re: Re: Well if he was a marine
I was THAT pissed off, but I'm sure I made no mistake when I calmed down. Thanks though I do apreciate your help :-)
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:26am

Re: Re: Re: Well if he was a marine
*....EVEN IF YOUR COMMENT...

:-)
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:29am

Re: Re:
Just to clarify here..... Do you realize your snowflake of an avatar matches the comment directly above?
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:32am

Re: Re:
I retract my vote/suggestion for this being first word and move to my original request/suggestion to my comment about William Chambers' comment :-)
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:48am

Re:
I will be happy to answer your question as a professional ^_^.

He has to be evaluated and monitored. It takes a bit of time to get a diagnosis, especially when a patient refuses to cooperate. So the detainment is mostly behavioral observation. It's not like he's going to be there for years as well.

I could point to the copy of DSM-IV that I have but The Mayo Clinic website gives it in plain English:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246/DSECTION=symptom s
Feel free to read that at your own leisure :-)

There are 3 types of PTSD but the one I would like to focus on is hyperarousal/anxiety:

Symptoms of anxiety and increased emotional arousal may include:

Irritability or anger
Overwhelming guilt or shame
Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much
Trouble sleeping
Being easily startled or frightened
Hearing or seeing things that aren't there

So maybe someone saw some of these behaviors and decided to help him out to get evaluated. Point is that he can now start treatment before it gets worse :-)
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Jake, 24 Aug 2012 @ 5:48am

Re: Re:
Depends what the evidence is; according to the Huffington Post article the local police thought this was serious enough to warrant bringing him to the attention of the FBI. Even if they've apparently determined that Raub himself is no threat to society, he might have been in contact with persons of similar political views who were a bit more proactive about implementing them, and the FBI is hardly going to release details of an ongoing investigation to the media.

Some of the comments on the HuffPo article are claiming he got a court order to release him, though, so who knows?
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 8:52am

Re: Re: Re:
Not one bit. I'm proud of you ^_^

However I do find your final paragraph a tad misguided.

PTSD symptoms can start to appear up to 3 months after a traumatic event. The problem is that they send the unstable people (such as the man to what is a Section 8 classification. Mr. Raub is showing signs of PTSD. It's common amongst servicemen and women who have been in combat duty for too long a time. So before he went in, he was fine. When he ended his tour of duty, he seemed fine. After 3 months, depending on what types of trauma they've gone through in their tour of duty, certain signs of it show up.

In his case it was Anxiety/Hyprearousal. Some of those symptoms include irrationalty and irritability.

Glad to help you gain a bit of perspective :-)
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 9:06am

Re: Re:
But it wasnt the extreme end. If he was ARRESTED and charged for the comments then yes, that would be extreme. But being questioned about clearly violent threats? How is that not an appropriate response?
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:10pm

Re: Re: Re:
Curt's last sentence was extremely inappropriate.

Judging by the video alone that he has a mental illness. So to say "I'm just surprised people like him are allowed to walk the street," is sort of a jibe against those who cannot help doing some of the crazy things he was doing.
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Robert, 24 Aug 2012 @ 4:22pm

Re:
There is a world of justice and law between acting like a nut and writing like one, guess which side of the nut job line you are on.
Increasing levels of censorship, with soviet era mental health as a new punishment for critiquing government.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 5:26pm

Re: Act like a nutjob, you get treated like one.
The people acting like "nutjobs" are the people who think it is OK to cart a young guy off and lock him up for expressing his opinions
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ECA (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 6:23pm

I wonder
Ever wonder about Our first rebels??

Freedom starts with Words..DEALS with actions..and then becomes the END result.

Our forefathers didnt want a war, and tried to get away from it, but When Britain sent its troops..there was little else to do..
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Aug 2012 @ 5:50pm

bullshit
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Biffbitrot (profile), 25 Aug 2012 @ 7:24pm

marine vet detained outrage
WORDS ARE NOT BULLETS. I grew up listening to a line that became a cliche from overuse. - "I may hate what you say but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it!". That was THE American anthem. What happened? What was done to this man is OUTRAGEOUS! It's what the old Soviet Union used to do to political dissenters - have we forgotten that already? Have we completely abrogated our rights as American citizens? When is enough going to be enough? Wake up people. (Somewhere Thomas Jefferson's body is spinning so hard it's likely to pop up in Tienanmen square.) For starters, how about a detailed, exacting, legal definition of what actually constitutes an act of terrorism as opposed to whatever offends some LEO (law enforcement officer) or bureaucrat's delicate sensibility?
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Aug 2012 @ 2:12pm

Re: Re:
Or in the vernacular, he was pink slipped. (Involuntary Psychiatric Hold for those who've never dealt with them.) After the initial 72 hours, they can be held with another 'pink slip' for an additional 7 days, then 30, then a court has to be convinced they need to be held until the doctor feels they are no longer a menace to others or themselves.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Aug 2012 @ 2:15pm

Re: not under arrest
Only extremely violent patients are held in their rooms. Otherwise they must be given free access to the common areas. Generally speaking, participation in group activities isn't even mandatory.
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Travis Miller (profile), 31 Aug 2012 @ 4:54pm

Re: Re: Re:
Just to clarify here..... Do you know what pseudo means?
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Travis Miller (profile), 31 Aug 2012 @ 5:10pm

Re: Re: "Conspiracy theories" come in all forms...
I can tell you struggle with what words mean. The official report is their theory of what happened. The report lays out a conspiracy that those criminals carried out. It is a conspiracy theory.
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Clouverse, 26 Aug 2013 @ 11:21am

But Then Why...
Would a marine be detained for exercising his freedom of speech?

Abandon you assumptions. Stick to your convictions. Clouverse.

http://clouverse.com
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Dr. Marina Gafanovich, MD, 13 Nov 2018 @ 12:18pm

Correction
Hey, the source link in this paragraph:

Either way, it seems that these statements on his Facebook page resulted in him being detained in a psychiatric ward.

is not longer working. Use this link instead
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