If You Can't Sue The Feds For Spying, Sue Them For Lying About Spying

from the again-and-again dept

Thu, Sep 6th 2012 8:01am — Mike Masnick

There have been numerous attempts by various parties (including, in a few cases, the EFF) to sue the US government concerning various aspects of its warrantless spying on Americans. Pretty much all of these cases end up failing, often for reasons that are suspect. However, it appears that the EFF is going to try again. As you may recall, back in July, the feds admitted to Senator Wyden that their own analysis discovered that they had violated the 4th Amendment on occasion in carrying out surveillance under the FISA Amendments Act.

In response to this, the EFF filed Freedom of Information Act requests, asking for documents concerning the situation in which such searches were deemed unreasonable under the 4th Amendment. The feds more or less ignored the FOIA request. So the EFF is suing for violations under the FOIA. It may not be as sexy as suing about the actual spying, but that path has already been shut down plenty of times. I'd guess that this approach won't succeed either (though I hope it does!). But, at the very least, hopefully it can call some attention to the massive secrecy by the feds as Congress gets ready to re-approve the FISA Amendments Act without bothering to understand how it's being used.

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Filed Under: 4th amendment, foia, lawsuits, privacy
Companies: eff

31 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:06am

I think they just don't get it... that ship has already sailed. They can keep tilting at windmills, but they are pretty much dead on the issue.

Not sure why Google would want to finance this sort of thing.
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The eejit (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:08am

Re:
It must have something to do with the Kenyan Communazi conspiracy!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:15am

Re:
"...that ship has already sailed. They can keep tilting at windmills, but they are pretty much dead on the issue."

Are you trying to beat some sort of idiom density record?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:17am

Re:
"It's all Google's fault"
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SujaOfJauhnral (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:25am

Re: Re:
Haha I was thinking that exact same thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:33am

Re: Re:
-m+t more like. Let you guess where in the sentence :D
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:35am

A prediction
Judge: National security is WAY more important than that whole "democracy" thing.
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ethorad (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:35am

If you can't get them for spying, get them for lying?

Sounds like the Al Capone method of prosecution (or rather the Frank J Wilson method I guess)
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Richard (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:49am

Re:
Actually the Al-Capone method would be to get them for fiddling their expenses - which sort of worked in the UK for a bit..
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Richard (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:53am

Re:
I think they just don't get it... that ship has already sailed. They can keep tilting at windmills, but they are pretty much dead on the issue.

OK I'll take what you said at face value. Then I have to ask:
What kind of person is it that gloats over someone else have got away with wrongdoing?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:02am

Re: Re:
Yeah, it's like gloating about a pedophile getting away with raping kids. Why on earth would you be happy about that?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:12am

Re: Re:
What kind of person is it that gloats over someone else have got away with wrongdoing?

I'd say only a real, fucking asshole.... like all of those people crying over the capture of the Svartholm. Here's an example of a particular sort of douchebag you seem to be referring to:

"PaulT (profile), Sep 6th, 2012 @ 2:35am

Ah yes, the AC mantra - lies, deceit, collusion, bribery and lawbreaking are OK as long as it's US who benefit from it! It's OK to destroy freedoms in other countries because someone might have copied some files for profit!

"Why should he get to hide out in a third world country and avoid paying for his crimes?"

Because, despite your best attempts so far, other countries are not bound to your laws. Unless, of course, that you're going to claim that the US should deport all political refugees currently claiming asylum in your country to avoid persecution under the laws of their home countries? Not saying so would make you a hypocrite, but I expect that.

So I agree with you, realizing that your fellow Techdirtbags largely fit the bill.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:29am

Re: Re: Re:
I have to admit you're the Riddik of trolling. Keep on fighting the Techdirt windmills Don Q.!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:30am

Re: Re:
hmm... now that's interesting. I wonder if there is a way to take the NSA to task via the GAO for misappropriating budget funds to spy on citizens?
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Bengie, 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:32am

How to fix it
Continuing to willfully violate the constitution should carry the death penalty for treason for any government personally and department.

Anyone in the government who knows another government official is violating the constitution should have to report said offense, otherwise also risk punishment by death.

Anyone who has reported said offense to a superior is no longer in danger of the death penalty, but the burden is now on the shoulders of said superior.

This would fix problems fast.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:41am

Re:
Not sure why Google would want to finance this sort of thing.

I don't know, Google has financed the creation of all known universe after all. There must be some ominous reasoning behind all that money thrown on useless projects.

Meanwhile, Google is at fault for hunger in Africa, they should do something about that.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:42am

Re: Re: Re:
Wow, I bet when you said that in your head, it sounded waaay more mature and insightful.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:42am

Re: Re: Re:
I didn't know Pedobear was responsible for Federal spying.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:44am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Actually he got hurt with the amount of truth in the comment and tried to vent out here by mocking the whole community. Obviously he failed.
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iambinarymind (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:56am

Insanity...
Does anyone else not see the utter insanity of attempting to sue to government by way of the government monopoly known as the "Justice System"?

Until the use of State force/coercion is removed (i.e. "taxation"/theft) to allow a voluntary market of competing arbitration systems to thrive, the people calling themselves "government" that claim the "legal" use of force/coercion will continue to expand their power and destroy individual freedoms.

It's time to wake up. Show the world that you own your self. Do not associate with individuals that advocate the use of force against you.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 10:03am

Re: Insanity...
Classic question: who judges the judges?
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KingofDarkness (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 10:55am

You bunch of whiney babies...
Why are all of you crying over some Gov't snooping? Do you have something to hide?!?!? If not, then no one should mind having their privacy dissolved in the federal acid that is known as the NSA.

...and why does no one ever talk about the fact that the NSA is a military organization? So not only do they violate the constitution by spying on Americans illegally, no form of U.S. military is supposed to EVER be used as a police force against its own countries citizens... But hey, who cares about the semantics of the NSA's anticonstitution movement...
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The eejit (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 11:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hey, given the competence lkevels of both in this area, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
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The eejit (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 11:07am

Re: Re: Re:
Not really, because there's No Such Agency.

/s
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The eejit (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Insanity...
Sir Samuel Vimes, Duke of Ankh-Morpork, Captain of the City Watch, and general Angry Man.
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John, 6 Sep 2012 @ 11:37am

At least someone is looking out for us
Well before I read this article I didn't know such an organization existed. I'm glad that at least someone is looking out for our privacy.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: Re: Insanity...
I say Mike should be declared King of Pirates an rule over the seven digital seas with his steel harpoon of poetic justice. And the trolls shall despair!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 3:32pm

Admitted? Read that again.
Here's the quote:
� It is also true that on at least one occasion the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held that some collection carried out pursuant to the Section 702 minimization procedures used by the government was unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment.
� I believe that the government's implementation of Section 702 of FISA has sometimes circumvented the spirit of the law, and on at least one occasion the FISA Court has reached this same conclusion.

It says only that:
� The government did something that a court believes violated the law.
� The government violated the spirit of the law, in the opinion of the Director.
(In other words, it's hardly admitting anything. This is not an accident.)
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 5:10pm

Re: Insanity...
Says a man who keeps paying them to try and throw us peaceful potheads in prison. Why do you keep associating with them through your continued tax payments?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 6:57pm

Re: You bunch of whiney babies...
State of national emergency, NDAA.
President can do whatever he wants, military can do whatever they want.

Don't expect change anytime soon, either. I wouldn't bet on Romney giving up the dictator's power, and Obama's already signed off on both of the above (after throwing a hissy fit until Congress amended the NDAA so it wouldn't undermine his authority).
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Sep 2012 @ 3:54am

Re: Admitted? Read that again.
Here, let me give you the Techdirt answer:

If they aren't breaking the law, they aren't trying to push the boundaries of what is possible.

It works for pirate sites and enablers, so why shouldn't it work for the feds too?
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