Google Follows Apple In Unnecessarily Pulling App That Allowed A Little Girl To Speak

from the sad dept

Tue, Sep 4th 2012 10:26am — Mike Masnick

We've written a few times about the unfortunate saga of 4-year-old Maya Nieder and her mother, Dana. Due to a ridiculous patent dispute, the one thing that allows Maya to speak -- an app called "Speak for Yourself" -- may get shut down. Back in June we were disappointed that, despite no request for an injunction, Apple decided to pull the app in question from its iOS store, citing the ongoing lawsuit. Maya can continue to use it for now, but it could go away and they wouldn't be able to get it back. Many people in our comments suggested that SfY should release an Android app. And they did... but a recent update from Dana notes that Google removed the app from its Play store as well, per the request of Prentke Romich Company & Semantic Compaction Systems (the patent holder and licensee suing SfY). While it's much easier to install 3rd party apps on Android devices without going through the Play Store, it's still surprising and disappointing that Google would join Apple in pulling this app before there's been any official ruling on the matter.

In the meantime, Dana also points out that PRC -- who didn't have an iOS app itself through all of this -- has finally released one in the iTunes store. Even though this seems ridiculous -- since they were able to shut down the competition and now have a clearer playing field -- Dana celebrates this entrance into the market because making more of these apps available can only help speech-challenged people speak. And, in the end, shouldn't that be the overriding concern?

She also mentions that the two sides met for court-ordered mediation, and asked the court to stay the case for 30 days to continue the process. So there's some hope for a settlement allowing the SfY app to live on. Either way, it's yet another example of companies using (often questionable) patents to cause real harm, rather than spreading innovation and helping people.

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Filed Under: assistance, patents, speaking
Companies: apple, google, prentke romich company, semantic compaction systems, speak for yourself

58 Comments

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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:38am

An advantage of Android
An advantage of Android is that using the Play Store is completely optional. So at least on that platform, "Speak for Yourself" can still be distributed in a real and effective way.
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Graham J (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:39am

So the patent system should be ignored when the patent in question is used by a child that can't talk. Or is being claimed by Apple.

Slowly your interesting view of the world is coming into view Mike.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:39am

when is everyone going to grasp that no company is interested in customers until they dont have them as customers any more? the most important thing is not providing a service, even for the likes of this poor, unfortunate little mite, but stopping everyone else from releasing a similar service, particularly if it performs better! ridiculous, pathetic and unnecessary. the courts should be ashamed of themselves for allowing, even encouraging, this type of behaviour which ends up harming the very people that were intended to be helped!
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:45am

Look, we live in a rule of laws and regulations. We are all duty bound to follow those rules. Sure, Maya may not be able to speak, but she can still choose to communicate. No one is stopping her. She just has to communicate in a legal way.

She could, for instance, write in a public domain calligraphy font, attach the note to a passenger pigeon and wait for the response.

In fact, this is a field ripe for innovation since there are very few public domain calligraphy fonts not yet apprehended and passenger pigeons have been extinct for a while.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:49am

Re:
He say they should wait for the alleged patent infringement to be proven in court before taking action, not that patents should be ignored.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:54am

Re:
Wow, you almost had me. I was starting up a civil disobedience rant before I read that all the way through.
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Wally (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:56am

Re: An advantage of Android
John you're awesome :-) I think Maya is used to using an Apple interface so getting to "Speak To Yourself" on an Android device is a sort of big step for an autistic child...especially if it's a set routine.

This is for Dana Meider Directly.

Depending on Maya's condition, if you wish to continue using an iPad interface she is used to, try BitTorrent (http://www.bittorrent.com/) to upload "Speak For Yourself"'s .ipa file into the device without iTunes and without Jailbreaking the device. I used it when a game of mine I loved to play was "temporarily" pulled from the App store.
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Wally (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 10:57am

Re: Re: An advantage of Android
*Nieder
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Zos (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:04am

Re:
so the patent system should be ignored.
(until it can be scrapped)

period. fixed that for you.
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SujaOfJauhnral (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:05am

Re:
the patent system should be ignored

^^^
IDK about Mike but there's quite a few people on this site (including myself) who'd stop right here and say "Yes".
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PRMan, 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:21am

Can't have it both ways, Mike...
If this app technology is so revolutionary that it helps Autism sufferers in a way that no other app ever has, then it stands to reason that the patent IS VALID. Shame on the company for being so slow to get it onto a tablet, but at least now they are negotiating a reasonable settlement, which is what patents are designed to encourage.
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halley (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:22am

Re:
Others have already said, "Yes."

Another angle is for governments to start evoking eminent domain or imposing public domain on intangible property. I'm specifically referring to life-changing or life-saving drugs and devices. Generic AIDS drugs in Africa. Generic poke-a-word communication tablet interfaces.

First, the US Constitution says "to promote the progress of the useful arts and sciences," not "to guarantee profits to creators." Second, the tools of copyright, patent, trademark and trade secret law are not the only tools that can apply to this sort of situation.
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Ninja (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:27am

We should sincerely punch the IP maximalists in the face when they come with the "for the children" mantra. Srsly.
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The eejit (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:29am

Re: Re:
Which would mean that due process is followed, ratehr than a company showing that they can't actually compete in the marketplace.
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Wally (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:32am

Re:
"So the patent system should be ignored when the patent in question is used by a child that can't talk. Or is being claimed by Apple."

You are missing the point. Let me inform you about Autism. It works on many levels in a spectrum.

Maya's brain cannot process verbal communication like you or I can. She can receive verbal communcation and understand them quite well, but she cannot process the proper way to give an output response verbally. She relies on Speak For Yourself and is very used to it's interface.

The claim isn't coming from Apple nor is it from Google. Apple and Google just pulled the app out of concern of their own legal skin...note it doesn't make it right that they did. So because of a patent "infringement" case where a company claims rights over two lines of code that make the program function the way Maya's autistic brain is used to, she no longer has access to the app if it updates.

Does it make it right at all to pull a patent claim lawsuit over bits of coded software and GUI that allow an autistic child to talk and communicate quickly and sufficiently in her own words using said code nd interface?
Not one bit!!!
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Pjerky (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:36am

Re: An advantage of Android
They could easily put it on the Amazon Android Store. That would help for now. Or they could just sell it directly from their website with instructions on how to download and install it on their Android device.

I really find it despicable that Apple and Google would so easily cave when there have been no judgements made in this case at all. Cowards!
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:41am

Re: Can't have it both ways, Mike...
"then it stands to reason that the patent IS VALID"

Your making the assumption that SfY is actually violating the patent. The other company has alleged that they have, but have not proven that yet. which is the whole argument here. SfY was pulled BEFORE infringement is proven, Guilty until proven innocent.

If SfY is violating a patent, fine, pull the app.... AFTER the ruling.
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Pjerky (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:44am

Re:
Since when does a company's profits or "intellectual property" (a concept which is farcical in and of itself) come before helping a disabled child communicate with the world? Since when does it come before doing the right thing or bettering our world with tools that truly help people and fill a need (especially such a crucial one)?

I would say never. Never should a company's profits or IP come before filling such crucial needs. The real problem is that the greedy companies behind the patents don't want to offer their product for fair and reasonable prices and they will punish anyone that does it in their stead.

Personally I think such companies should receive severe penalties for this kind of persecution. Your profits are not more important than people and helping those in need with such a critical tool.

We are not talking about a product that no one needs like a smartphone. We are not talking about entertainment like movies and music. We are talking about something that these kids really can't live without. Not without greatly diminishing their quality of life.
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Pjerky (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:46am

Web interface should be the next step
They should come up with an HTML5 web interface using a very affordable subscription service as an alternative that can work in both mobile OSes through the browser.

Think about it. With the web interface they will never have to deal with this app store BS ever again. I bet they can do it and even constantly add improvements. That would be amazing.
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Nick Dynice (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:46am

So much for "Don't be evil."
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re: An advantage of Android
Agreed on that. It's past time to take the control of iOS apps and Android apps out of the control of Google and Apple.

They have way too stringent of requirements in many cases to put things in their stores and pull apps for the stupidest of reasons regularly.
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Christopher (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re:
Bingo. This is just waiting for due process to wind it's way through.

I personally feel that way too many things are patentable today. Complete software and hardware packages, fine.

Piecemeal software and hardware patents, hell no!
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Reality Check, 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:36pm

Re:
Do you realize that the holy 'Patent System' is a Legal Construct?
The holy 'Patent System' is not a Moral Code. It's a set of laws.

He's saying that a legal construct is bad and needs to be discarded or revised.
This is one more example of how the holy patent system is bad.

In fact, he didn't say it should be ignored.
In fact, he said that Apple and Android are pre-emptively pulling the app, before it has even been decided whether the holy patent system has even been infracted.

Your interesting view of the world (and your reading comprehension) is coming into view quite rapidly.
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nospacesorspecialcharacters (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:37pm

Re: Re:
Seems to be part of the overall conservative American worldview that healthcare is something that only those who can afford it should be entitled to.

What kind of country can an autistic child be denied such a benefit over profits... the same kind of country that says cures for diseases can be patent-protected, that free healthcare is an evil socialist ideal.

Funnily enough they're happy to benefit from free soldiers, free police forces, free fire services, free roads, free garbage disposal... but free healthcare? No, that's for those dirty commies.
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Reality Check, 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:42pm

Re: Can't have it both ways, Mike...
Patents are designed to encourage what?
Reasonable settlement?

That's funny.
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cosmicrat (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:46pm

Ebenezer would be proud
Only a true Scrooge would value profit over a child's quality of life like this. Apple and Google disgrace themselves by suppressing the app. Assuming the patent infringement is proved, still in this case I would say it is more moral to break the law than to obey it.
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Christopher (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:46pm

Re: Re: Can't have it both ways, Mike...
Agreed with the 'after the ruling' part. No reason to pull anything before a court has made a decision or jury has made a decision on X thing.
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cosmicrat (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:47pm

Ebenezer would be proud
Only a true Scrooge would value profit over a child's quality of life like this. Apple and Google disgrace themselves by suppressing the app. Assuming the patent infringement is proved, still in this case I would say it is more moral to break the law than to obey it.
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Kaden (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:48pm

Re:
"So the patent system should be ignored when the patent in question is used by a child that can't talk."

Yeah. Got a problem with that?
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el_segfaulto (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 12:56pm

Re: Re:
In this situation, the patent system (which ostensibly is set up to benefit our culture) is being abused and ultimately hurting society. To hell with software patents. And this is coming from a software developer.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2012 @ 1:30pm

When speaking for yourself is outlawed, only the outlaws will be able to speak for themselves.
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KMD, 4 Sep 2012 @ 1:47pm

patents
So three of us have invested our life savings and two and one half years of testing into creating a new device for the deaf. IT WORKS we apply and get our patents. It comes to market and is stolen by a deaf organization to distribute for free. My family and my fellow researchers should not be rewarded financially for the risk, time and investment we made. Sounds like a great way to stop innovation and investment.
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Kaden (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 2:21pm

Re: patents
This 'risk' you speak of... Why would you expect to be paid for taking it?
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HuwOS, 4 Sep 2012 @ 2:26pm

Re: Re:
Nonsense, the patent system should not be ignored.
It should be fully examined, torn down and what little there was in it that was actually of benefit to society could then form the core of a new system.
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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 2:27pm

Re: Re: An advantage of Android
they could just sell it directly from their website with instructions on how to download and install it on their Android device.

They don't even need to supply instructions beyond "click here to install".
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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Re: An advantage of Android
Actually, that's not quite right. You also have to uncheck the configutration box that restricts you to using the Play Store, but that's trivial.
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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 2:32pm

Re:
So corporate profits should trump the health and well-being of children.

Your interesting view of the world is readily apparent.
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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 2:36pm

Re: Web interface should be the next step
Ack, no, this type of service would not be an adequate replacement for an installed app for a whole host of reasons.

A better choice would be to avoid iOS altogether and use a platform that doesn't limit what you're allowed to do with it.
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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 2:44pm

Re: patents
My family and my fellow researchers should not be rewarded financially for the risk, time and investment we made

Interesting. Not a single comment here has argued this, why are you raising it as a point? Unless you think that it's impossible to get a financial return on development unless you have a patent, but that's just silliness.
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Wally (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 3:44pm

Re: Re: Web interface should be the next step
iOS is the only interface she is used to. You can use BitTorrent to load the .ipa files to an iOS device using it.
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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 4:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Web interface should be the next step
Yes, for this specific case. I was talking about the larger picture.

This is an example of why I think that Apple's walled garden is a bad choice for consumers to make. It's seductive in that it succeeds in what it's trying to do: make it an "appliance" that can be reasonably used by people who don't know or care about how to use the technology.

The problem is that sooner or later (and usually sooner), the naive user is no longer naive and has a better understanding. At that point they discover that the walled garden is a prison.
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Samuel Abram (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 5:23pm

This is why I prefer Android to iOS
While it's much easier to install 3rd party apps on Android devices without going through the Play Store...

which is why I prefer Android to iOS. If an app gets removed, workarounds are easy. Or to paraphrase the great Cory Doctorow: "I trust Google as little as I trust Apple or Microsoft. But the Android OS--when compared to iOS and Windows Phone 7--requires the least amount of trust." Thanks, Google!
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Elizabeth, 4 Sep 2012 @ 6:32pm

Maya doesn't have Autism.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2012 @ 7:11pm

Re:
The patent shouldn't have been granted in the first place, the very idea that we can have patents on algorithms when it's quite clearly outlined that algorithms aren't patentable is foolish.
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Wally (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 7:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Web interface should be the next step
It's not entirely a prison...just a minimum
security asylum....

As the walled garden in concerned, I think the only real walled garden is in development. As a user though, I can tell you that consumer-wise, you don't need iTunes to upload apps to your devices. As I said, I had to use BitTorrent to upload stuff that was "temporarily" out of iTunes. :-) Any app file in .ipa format can be uploaded via BitTorrent, no ROM-ing, rooting, or Jailbreaking involved :-)
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Wally (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 7:15pm

Re:
I'm hoping you really have facts to prove that and may god have mercy on your soul if you're trolling thinking that is funny.
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streetlight (profile), 4 Sep 2012 @ 7:27pm

Re: Re:
I think the proposal for governments to usurp the rights of patent holders is already going on in India and Brazil. The drug companies that hold the patents on life saving HIV/AIDS drugs who charge thousands of dollars per month for the meds are no longer in business there. The drugs are now being produced for affordable costs by Indian companies and perhaps in Brazil or are being imported. Lives and the quality of life are at stake in the drive to protect patented medications resulting in unaffordable prices. In many cases only the very rich can afford to survive.
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Sandra, 4 Sep 2012 @ 11:27pm

Re:
Thank you! I was reading with increasing surprise all these claims about her autism - the article doesn't even say she has it, so why this assumption? There are other reasons for speech impairments.
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PCCare247 (profile), 5 Sep 2012 @ 2:19am

Patents and Copyrights...!!!
Patents & Copyright are some of the words which are being used quite often now-a-days. And I find one name in common. and i.e. Apple.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Sep 2012 @ 4:17am

Re: Re:
Maya is not autistic though. If you read Dana's blog or the original story even, she has some sort of condition which they think is probably genetic where she does not have the control of the muscles in her mouth used to formulate the sounds. Her thought processes appear to be completely normal.
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Wally (profile), 5 Sep 2012 @ 6:34am

Re: Re: Re:
Ok, thank you for informing me of this. :-) Still not right as to what's going on regardless of condition though.
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Wally (profile), 5 Sep 2012 @ 6:41am

Re: Re:
My appologies, it's just that in some cases of Autism, as seen with a few of my patients, I've noticed they comprehend the stimuli around them more than you or I could ever know, but they still can't verbally convey forms of communication to others. So I hope you all can understand the assumption of relatively new-comers to the case :-) It's a physical condition and I'm glad that the assumptuons are being corrected by you wonderful people :-)
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Sandra, 5 Sep 2012 @ 10:49am

Re: Re: Re:
Of course apps like these can be, and increasingly are, used by people on the autism spectrum, as they may be non-verbal but able to use a communication device.

I know, by reading Maya's mom's blog, that she's not on the autism spectrum - and I just found it surprising that this was the assumption of most of these commenters even though there was no mention of the reason for her speech impairment in the article.

If I hadn't known about it, I think a physical condition like cerebral palsy might have been my first "guess" - but perhaps it's the increase in communication device users on the autism spectrum (and the media coverage) that does it :-)

In all cases, and no matter the condition, it's nice that awareness of alternative communication is brought to the public's attention :-)
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Sep 2012 @ 9:21pm

Re: Re: patents
But maybe someone should.
Your work could allow a child to communicate, but unless you are rewarded you won't allow it?

You could dive into a river and save someone from drowning, but unless you are rewarded you ...?

You could help that dying person on the other side of the road but if you don't see any reward in it for you...?

If your profit or lack of profit is dependent on denying something basic to a human being, then yes, you have no particular right to profit regardless of how much work you have done or what risks you have taken.
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Sheogorath (profile), 7 Sep 2012 @ 2:36am

Re: An advantage of Android
"An advantage of Android is that using the Play Store is completely optional."
For me it isn't, it just doesn't work.
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Sheogorath (profile), 7 Sep 2012 @ 2:41am

Re: Re: Re:
"[T]he patent system should not be ignored. It should be fully examined, torn down and what little there was in it that was actually of benefit to society could then form the core of a new system."
Quoted for truth.
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Sheogorath (profile), 7 Sep 2012 @ 2:48am

About Autistics
@ PRMan: We don't suffer from Autism, we're made to suffer because we're Autistic. Dipwad.
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Ettina, 2 Mar 2016 @ 6:39am

Maya
Just like to point out that Maya is not on the autism spectrum. She has an unidentified genetic syndrome.
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