If You Eat Something, Say Something: DHS Sounds The Alarm On The 'Terrorist Implications' Of Food Trucks

from the basically-any-form-of-transportation-is-a-threat----start-walking,-citizen dept

Mon, Nov 12th 2012 11:36am — Tim Cushing

It's interesting (or maybe just kind of sad) that various government agencies see possible terrorists everywhere but rarely, if ever, catch one. Despite the large number of personnel being thrown at the problem (along with lots of money), actual terrorists seem to be in limited supply.

But these agencies haven't let their lack of success temper their vision of a nation under constant imminent attack. Public Intelligence recently posted a Powerpoint presentation from the NYC fire department (FDNY) discussing the unique safety issues mobile food trucks present. Along with some actual concerns (many food trucks use propane and/or gasoline-powered generators to cook; some *gasp* aren't properly licensed food vendors), the presenter decided to toss in some DHS speculation on yet another way terrorists might be killing us in the near future.

That's right. Instead of serving up a quick hot meal, these food trucks will be serving up death, and lots of it! Under the heading "Terrorist Implications," the FDNY lists the exact reasons we should be concerned, most of which begin with the word "high."

While any terrorist organization worth its twisted ideology would do well to nail down as much of this list as possible, so would any vendor who wished to stay in business. The question is: how do you differentiate between the two? One answer might be to sort through the data collected by all the food truck terrorism incidents up to this point. (American's fusion centers would like to remind you that zero incidents only means we're due, rather than indicating a terrorist-free trend.)

But there's more! The next slide continues to lay out the "Terrorism Implications," this time reminding first responders that food trucks have large quantities of deadly liquids (propane, gasoline) and are "easily concealed" (which I assume refers to the potential explosives, rather than the truck itself... but you can never be TOO sure). Also, food bombers will usually be in the proximity of "crowds" (gasp!) and "sidewalks" (wha...?).

Dammit, now the terrorists have gone too far! It's one thing to blow up our crowds. It's quite another to ruthlessly attack our infrastructure, the very thing that keeps our precious crowds from milling about on the lawn and/or street!

But (dear lord) there's even more! According to the DHS, food carts make "excellent surveillance platforms" because of all the "high" stuff they can park next to for long periods of time. (Has anyone considered knocking on the door and having a quick look around, especially during business hours?) And I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to just park wherever they want for indefinite periods of time, at least not in New York City. There are 8 million laws in the Naked City, none of which are accommodating to the small businessman/woman "stealing" customers away from established restaurants paying exorbitant amounts per square foot every month.

But beyond that, why go through the expense of constructing a food truck when you can just rent a U-Haul, fill it full of explosives and ram it into the nearest high-rise/government building? Unless the DHS figures these terrorists are in it for the long haul, suckering people in with weeks or months of delicious ethnic food before parking across the nearest heavily-trafficked sidewalk and blowing everything up in an explosion of propane and proprietary blends of herbs and spices. Also, does it not occur to them that if you want to keep your terrorist activities hidden, it's probably not the smartest thing to set yourself up as a vehicle that people line up to look inside?

The DHS' unfocused "terrorvision" continues to see a threat in every situation and the department seems to be busying itself crafting a response to every conceivable "threat." The problem with this "method" is that it turns any slight variation of "everyday activity" into something suspicious. The number of "terrorist implications" grows exponentially while the number of solutions remains the same. This Powerpoint is another example of good, old-fashioned fear mongering, utilizing public servants to spread the message.

At no point does this presentation offer anything resembling preemptive action or deterrents. All it does is paint a picture of food trucks as potential threats before concluding with, of all things, common sense safety tips aimed at dealing with food truck fires. The final slide paints the picture in the clearest terms, letting the viewer know exactly whose agenda is being pushed:

Prepared by Lt. Timothy Carroll
FDNY Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness

The priorities are all screwed up. Terrorism is the first concern. Everything else is secondary. Considering this is an FDNY presentation, you'd think that "Disaster Preparedness" would be the priority. After all, they are the first response. But instead that honor goes to the vague menace of terrorism, a constant battle with no winners and, for the most part, no combatants. Every day without a terrorist act is a "win" that perpetuates the "need" for more counter-terrorist "efforts."

All that being said, the easiest way to tell that this "Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness" is all bluster and FUD is to take a look at its logo. Yep: MF EAGLE.

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Filed Under: dhs, fdny, food trucks, nyc, terrorism

81 Comments

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SolkeshNaranek (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 11:42am

Who's in charge of the DHS
well this confirms it. The Three Stooges (I hope there is no copyright infringement because of this) have arisen from the dead and are now in charge of the DHS.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 11:51am

Why do you hate freedom?
The terrorists are in your mind. If we don't point out the boogey-man wherever he may lurk, he may escape your mind and do no end of harm.
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Michael, 12 Nov 2012 @ 11:56am

Taco Trucks
I can speak from first hand experience that eating a taco from some of these trucks can, in fact, cause a reaction that can put nearby people, buildings, and the sidewalk in serious danger.

On a side note, why does the FDNY have a "Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness"? Isn't their regular job essentially putting out fires, saving people from smashed buildings and cars, and generally helping people in disasters?

Seems like their preparation for a terrorist disaster would best be handled by taking on a series of smaller disasters that are small-scale versions of these types of events (you know, fires, car accidents, etc.) and based on these experiences training their people and adjusting their policies, procedures, and equipment?
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Yakko Warner (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 11:57am

That won't work for everyone
Obviously this only applies to food trucks with large numbers of customers. Most food trucks don't have nearly the same level of popularity, so connecting shrapnel with fans could never have the same level of terroristic success.
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Michael, 12 Nov 2012 @ 11:57am

Re: Why do you hate freedom?
...to your budget.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yakko Warner (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:02pm

Note: Large screen TV
I can only imagine that notice on slide #5 is where the presenter says, "Those evil, conniving terrorists! They lure people to crowd around their taco truck with televised sporting events and blow them up!"
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Valis (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:02pm

Bin Laden won.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:04pm

And they wonder why even the Senate doesn't take them seriously anymore.
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BentFranklin (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:04pm

Maybe because food trucks are owned and operated by foreigners?

While we're at it, what about all those scary looking taxicabs? They are driven by funny-looking people too!

Quick, someone call Congressman Peter King!
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Lord Binky, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:07pm

DHS Identification Procedure:

1) If it moves, it could be a terrorist threat.

2) If it doesn't move, wait till it moves.
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Wally (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:10pm

Bets and Books
My wife and I recently put out a bet to see which book this country of ours would start resembling after the election. I bet "1984" by George Orwell, She bet "Fahrenheit 451" by Bradbarry....I just lost and now am getting an entire year of Chick-flicks and Halmark Originals....God in Heaven have mercy on me!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:15pm

The next terrorist plot, high cholesterol to induce heart attacks!

We must arrest those big terrorist food chains serving lots of greasy high cholesterol foods that kill tens of thousands Americans every year!

And while we're at it, we also need to bring the new #1 terrorist to justice... THE SUN!

The Sun is an evil terrorist that dishes out LETHAL amounts of UV that give CANCER to MILLIONS of people a year!

Without our good old Department of Homeland security creating a greenhouse effect all over the earth the evil Sun would kill us all with it's UV rays!

It's a GOOD thing that the DHS and TSA thought of creating the green house effect to protect us from the evil Sun's plot to kill us with UV rays. That's why you need to give the DHS and TSA MORE money, because obviously they're VERY successful at what they do if they've foiled the Sun's evil terrorist plots!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:21pm

Want to stop terrorism?

A study (found via Bruce Schneier's blog) suggests that military force is NOT the way to go. Check it:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9351/index1.html
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:23pm

The next terrorist plot.

-Open businesses in America

-Set your business on fire once it becomes popular enough to draw big crowds nearby, in hopes of killing some people

Yeah, MUCH more practical then then taking a bomb to a well populated area/business and blowing yourself up!
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TasMot (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:34pm

Somebody at DHS is watching the movies.....
Is the Karate Kid movie back in the theaters? When Mr. Miyagi is first starting to teach Daniel karate, Daniel knocks a kerchief to the floor and Mr. Miyagi says (something to the affect of) "Be careful knocking that weapon to the floor". He then shows Daniel how even a flimsy kerchief can be used to generate a distraction that will allow an advantage in a fight. Unfortunately, DHS has become the weapon that is only good as a distraction.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:36pm

McCarthyism.
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The eejit (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:37pm

Re: Who's in charge of the DHS
no, the DHS is a Monty Python version of itself. I remind youi of the Self-Defense against Fruits sketch.
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AB, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:37pm

The big question I have is... Why bother? Wouldn't it make way more sense to just rent a uhaul truck and load it up with homemade high explosive?? Maybe I'm just too smart for the job...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:48pm

agree but...
While I strongly agree with the content of the article, the juvenile style in which is written makes it hard to take serious.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:48pm

agree but...
While I strongly agree with the content of the article, the juvenile style in which is written makes it hard to take seriously.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nick Dynice (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:49pm

I can't wait for these slides to be remixed into a new meme.
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80sRelic (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 12:53pm

No Input From Mayor Bloomberg?
No mention of hidden stashes of salt shakers and 44oz plastic cups to serve Demon Pop in... DHS obviously didn't consult the Mayor when producing this... What a disturbing lack of federal-local coordination!
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harbingerofdoom (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Who's in charge of the DHS
i think you're right...it appears that DHS is part of the ministry of silly walks.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:08pm

Re:
Yes, and in terms of "explosives," propane and gasoline are pretty tame. It's mostly just fireballs especially compared to a true explosives (even a homemade explosive).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Greg (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:09pm

Re: Re: Who's in charge of the DHS
Well, do YOU know how to defend yourself against an attacker with a banana? I thought not.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:09pm

Re:
Yes, and in terms of "explosives," propane and gasoline are pretty tame. It's mostly just fireballs especially compared to a true explosives (even a homemade explosive).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:11pm

Re:
true. terrorism (and piracy..the kind on the seas) is mostly a political problem rather than a military one.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Greg (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:12pm

Re: That won't work for everyone
Terrorist: Dammit! We only took out one fat guy! I told you we should have gone with the low carb menu!
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:12pm

Ummm... NY needs to be stopped.
Yes the terrorists attacked the city, but the billions we give them and their secret go anywhere spy on anyone programs are over the top and need to end.

If you need any more evidence...
The exploding food truck was a plot device from a CSI:NY episode.
We are presenting the plots of TV shows now to scare people.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:14pm

I love the case studies, "Look at the past terrorists could easily burn themselves and ruin their trucks!"
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Greg G (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:21pm

FOUO
The best part about the slides in the article is the tag at the bottom of FOUO (For Official Use Only.)

It's almost as effective as the FBI warning on DVD's...
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Greg G (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Who's in charge of the DHS
Release the... TIGER!
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ldne, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:28pm

Re:
I've said this repeatedly too. There are only about a zillion things like these trucks that can be pointed out as easy targets if you think about it for a minute and it's impossible to do something about all of them and remain a functional society, most of them terrorists are either not going to think of or they're not going to bother with because of their own agenda's anyway, so there is no reason to worry about them except fear. Plastering this stuff all over the net isn't the smartest thing to do, why point out smart targets to suicidal idiots?
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:30pm

Re: Bets and Books
Never bet with your wife. Even if you win, you lose!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:57pm

Re: agree but...
While I may or may not agree with this comment, the juvenile double posting makes it hard to take seriously!
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Mason Wheeler, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:58pm

Re:
Yeah, that's been obvious literally since day 1.

I remember hearing the news come in on September 11, 2001, how they were shutting down all sorts of critical infrastructure due to security concerns. And at one point, MLB announced that all baseball games scheduled for that afternoon would be canceled. And that's when I realized that the terrorists had just won: in a very real sense, they had destroyed America.
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bruce, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:59pm

cui prodest?
Hi

instead of guessing who is sillier, why don't you ask who could take advantage of such studies?

who are the main competitors of food trucks?
Competitors: tag them as terrorists and they will disappear...
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Mason Wheeler, 12 Nov 2012 @ 1:59pm

Re: Bets and Books
You're both wrong. Have a look at Jennifer Government by Max Barry. Or, if you're into the classics, Brave New World is a lot closer to how we ended up than 1984 has ever been.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 2:10pm

Re: Re: agree but...
Thank you. Your predictability won me a bet. Plese go on...
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 2:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Who's in charge of the DHS
Of course.... first fill the attacker full of hot lead, then eat the banana, thus disarming him. Straight out of the DHS playbook (am I now going to get a visit for revelaing a classified training manual?).
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 2:26pm

Re:
The lastest release of that manual says: "2) If it doesn't more, take it out just to be sure" I believe...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 2:28pm

Re: agree but...
Well the juvenile nature of the DHS "plan" and the constant hand-waving and tantrums make it pretty hard to take the whole thing seriously so I guess that evens it up.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 2:35pm

At the Mall for Xmas
Those clever Terrorist have the DHS Watching the food carts and now they're free to implement their diabolical plots against all the food courts in America...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 2:57pm

Re:
Dammit, where is the "sad but fuckin' true" button? Bah, guess I'll go with "insightful" instead.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 2:59pm

Re: Re: Bets and Books
Hey, watch the spoilers! I'm just about to read Jennifer Government.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous, 12 Nov 2012 @ 3:10pm

"High"
They must be. Has Obama been snorting cocaine again?
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Jake, 12 Nov 2012 @ 3:37pm

Did the presentation also contain a slide about how a large percentage of these vans are owned and operated by first- and second-generation immigrants and/or non-white people in general?

Hah. No, of course not. That would go without saying, wouldn't it?
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The Real Michael, 12 Nov 2012 @ 3:43pm

That's the way. Keep spending and spending wads of cash on this nonsense to ensure we never balance our budget and further expand the (elite-controlled) police state.
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Blatant Coward (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 5:08pm

Noms!
So I wonder what tasty things the FBI will be cooking up as they train terrorists so they can catch them at lunch?
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skinny poppy (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 5:15pm

Falafel or shawarma (but only if there's a "halal" sign on the truck somewhere). They're harder to handle than hot dogs.
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William Chambers, 12 Nov 2012 @ 5:20pm

Nonsense
This entire article is pathetic Tim. It undermines the credibility of everything else said as this is indeed a threat. We hire folks to find possible threats and this is exactly what they have done.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 7:12pm

Re: Nonsense
Whoever "we" is needs to hire better folks.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 7:24pm

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Nov 12th, 2012 @ 12:21pm
I'd like to read it but it has been removed
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2012 @ 7:47pm

Re: Taco Trucks
On a side note, why does the FDNY have a "Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness"?

Step 1. Someone in charge of a federal "anti-terror" group puts forward a bill earmarking billions for "anti-terror" groups.

Step 2. 99% of congress, being concerned only with their own political careers, will avoid even the slightest chance of giving their rivals ammo for their inevitable smear campaigns. Since none of them want to be denounced as "pro-terror" by their opponents, they can't pass the bill fast enough.

Step 3. Everybody lines up to milk the gravy train.
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G Thompson (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 9:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Who's in charge of the DHS
I thought it was a mosquito ;)
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G Thompson (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 9:33pm

Re: Why do you hate freedom?
What they are in our Minds???

OMG!!OMG OMG Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Well that's it then.. Stop using your minds.. DHS and The Government of the USA will show you how.

wait...
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G Thompson (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 9:36pm

Re: Nonsense
possible =/= probable
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Pixelation, 12 Nov 2012 @ 9:47pm

The last thing they heard....
was La Cucaracha.

Da da da da, da da da da, BOOM!
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techflaws (profile), 12 Nov 2012 @ 11:16pm

Re: Nonsense
It's been proven that cigarettes don't cause any harm to your health.

Signed,

Dr. Marlboro.
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That One Guy (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 2:22am

Re: Re:
I think it's 'If it doesn't move, get some FBI temps to push it/pick it up until it does move.' actually.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:42am

Re: Bets and Books
"see which book this country of ours would start resembling after the election"

After the election?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:48am

Re:
Never mind big terrorist food chains selling genetically modified dinner in a box, tobacco companies selling addictive cancer sticks, heavily subsidized oil companies polluting the oceans ... everyone needs to pay attention over there ->
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:50am

Re: Re: Re: agree but...
Would it also be predictable to point out your typo?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:55am

Re: Nonsense
And the false flag operations are not pathetic - be afraid, be very afraid ... of food trucks.

brought to you by your friendly brick & mortar restaurant.
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Coogan (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 7:25am

Step 1: Order a falafel from the funny-looking dude with the beard in a truck.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Destroy 'Merica!
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Roses, 13 Nov 2012 @ 7:36am

Re: Bets and Books
Actually, our country was already some combination of 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World before the election, especially BNW. But a brave new world tends to become 1984 over time. I'd say you and your wife tied.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:06am

Re: Re: Why do you hate freedom?
We're going to have to nuke our imaginations.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:07am

Re: Re: Taco Trucks
Step 4. Greece.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:08am

Re:
Oh science! I've seen taxicabs in the proximity of crowds and sidewalks and I didn't say something! What have I done!!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:09am

Re: Re: Re:
Get some FBI agents to offer it the motive, material, access, and training to move then wait for it to move and arrest it for moving.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Then cue trumpets.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 10:21am

Re: Re: Nonsense
Nobody said that possible equals probable. But I take Chambers to mean that "we" (as in society, constituents of government, th epeople of the city of New York in this particular case) expect our fire departments (especially big city ones, and especially the FDNY, which has had some experience in responding to disasters large and small), to look at possible risks and explore how to handle them.

Here's a guy from FDNY who puts together a PPT for other firefighters, noting all of the aspects of food trucks that they should keep in mind if they're responding to a call involving a food truck. They have propane, generators, maybe hot fryer oil, etc. Tons of dangerous flammable or explosive things. Good for a fire fighter to remember. In a couple of slides, he also notes that food trucks would make good cover for someone who wanted to plant a truck bomb in a crowded place. And you know what? He's right. Since food trucks usually contain lots of flammable/explosive stuff, and are parked in crowded areas, they would provide good cover for someone who wanted to plant explisve things in a crowded area. As others point out, you could just use a U-Haul. True, but perhaps unsurprisingly, people tend to notice if you park a U-Haul in Times Square. (Also, judging from the comments here, if anyone in the fire department were to point out this possibility, it would be an example of McCarthyite Big Brotherism singling out self-movers for discrimination.)

There's nothing in that FDNY presentation that suggests authorities should discriminate against food trucks, or that food trucks are bad, or illegitimate (although it notes the black market for permits). Instead, it notes the risks that food trucks present for firefighters, and what firefighters should note *when they get called* to an incident involving a food truck. And that's generally going to mean a food truck that's on fire, or bellowing smoke, or something else that leads people to call the fire department.

So I'm going go against the tide of comments here and suggest that there's really nothing wrong with a fire fighter pointing out to other firefighters that food trucks pose some unusual potential dangers, including the small possibility that someone oculd exploit those dangers purposefully.
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AB, 13 Nov 2012 @ 10:32am

Re: Nonsense
It's good that the possibility was recognized. It's bad that it was given a dedicated presentation thus wasting hundreds (possibly even thousands) of dollars.

The idea should have been entered in a file and put aside for some bored agent to consider in the future - or for the current bored agent to consider now and make notes for how to recognize and address the vaguely possible event. It is such an improbable threat that it should never ever have deserved more than eight man-hours of attention. Even in the incredibly underwhelming environment of boredom and make-work currently faced by agents.

This presentation is a clear indication that there are too many agents and not nearly enough work for them all.
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btr1701 (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Taco Trucks
> Step 3. Everybody lines up to milk
> the gravy train.

A year later, the president and Congress propose a whole new and exciting round of taxes to make up for the budget shortfall all this terrorism has caused.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:29pm

It's more subtle than you think. These food trucks are killing us slowly with fat, salt, cholesterol, carcinogens, and sweetened snacks and drinks.

They're trying to Type 2 Diabetes us to death.
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Hank Hill, 13 Nov 2012 @ 3:05pm

Gosh darnit
ill not have you slandering the good name of Propane!- Its the cleanest and tastiest form of BBQ cooking on the planet. Good day
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John Doe, 13 Nov 2012 @ 3:40pm

The real crime here
The real crime here is the PowerPoint slides. Were they done by a 3rd grader?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:46pm

Re: The real crime here
Officer "Awww, isn't he Cute" should go to summer school.
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Jimmy the Geek, 13 Nov 2012 @ 9:25pm

I have a target for the DHS to pursue
I happen to know of entire chains of restaurants that serve high fat low quality foods designed to destroy America from the inside by driving up health costs and killing millions of Americans every year decades younger than they should have died.

They are called "Fast food restaurants."
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Nov 2012 @ 6:48am

Re:
If one of those DID blow up it might dissuade people from frequenting these unhealthy foodstands and might actually have a positive effect on american mortality rates. So no this won't happen. Buying stock in mcdonald, kfc, smith&wesson or a fracking petrochemical company would have more effect than this bomb. Why get blown up when you can get rich on americans killing themselves.
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Protector, 16 Nov 2012 @ 10:28am

Re:
McCarthy was right, you know. . . .
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