US Government Agencies Will Soon Be Able To Access Foreign Medical Dossiers Due To Patriot Act

from the radical-transparency dept

Fri, Dec 7th 2012 2:07am — Ben Zevenbergen

The US Patriot Act has suddenly scared an entire nation, and it's not the US itself this time. The Netherlands is currently going nuts about the US government being able to request medical details of all its citizens when the Dutch Electronic Patient Database (EPD) is implemented next month. This will not be the only country that freaks out because of the Patriot Act, as this sort of thing is likely to happen a lot more often. A recent study explained that US government agencies can secretly request anyone's data if they are using a cloud-computing service which 'conducts systematic business in the US'. It is already sufficient when the service provider is somehow a subsidiary of a US company.

That turns out to be a problem in the Netherlands, because the company that has developed the EPD and will be hosting the patients' data on its cloud computing systems is the US-based CSC. The Dutch government and the organization responsible for implementing the EPD are convinced there is no problem, because there are clear contracts which have assigned Dutch jurisdiction, and fortunately the Dutch have stringent data protection laws that will protect patients' sensitive data. Because that's what data protection laws do, right?

False! At least with regard to information law, researchers from Amsterdam University warn that this analysis is way too simplistic. According to the scholars, it is quite possible the US government agencies can circumvent data protection laws and could easily request access to medical information of every single person in the Netherlands. The study doesn't just cover the Netherlands (though it is especially timely for that), but rather looks at how these risks may apply more globally. Here are just a few of the findings that should raise eyebrows across the globe:

"When using a cloud service provider that is subject to U.S. jurisdiction, data may be requested directly from the company in question in the United States. […] From a legal point of view, access to such information cannot be denied and cloud service providers can give no guarantees in this respect. […] The possibility that foreign governments request information is a risk that cannot be eliminated by contractual guarantees. Nor do Dutch privacy laws offer any safeguards in this respect. […] It is a persistent misconception that U.S. jurisdiction does not apply if the data government requests for information do not apply to Dutch users of the cloud. […] legal protection under specific U.S. laws applies primarily to U.S. citizens and residents. […] Given the nature of intelligence work, it is not possible to gain insight into actual requests for information by the U.S. authorities […] Cloud providers will typically not be able to disclose whether such requests are made"

If the above doesn't yet lead to a new international outrage against the US Patriot Act, then the following sentence on the extra-territorial effects of the Patriot Act should at least send shivers down the spines of sovereignty-loving non-US government officials:

"The transition to cloud computing will, in principle, result in a lower degree of autonomy [...]"

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Filed Under: europe, netherlands, patriot act, privacy

37 Comments

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Richard (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:16am

Own Goal
Once this becomes widely known the net result will be that no-one outside the US will do this kind of business with a US company.

US companies wil be frozen out of a huge swathe of business.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:23am

'there are clear contracts which have assigned Dutch jurisdiction'
So when the US government requests the data, CSC has a choice to either comply with the 'clear contracts', or with the Patriot Act.
Guess what they'll choose.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:25am

I wonder when the EU will get a Patriot Act of their own? This should be fun - any info on any US citizen from any company in the US that does business in the EU - is ours for the taking. I can hear the outcry from DC politicians already...
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:26am

and if people world wide still cant see why the USA conducts secret 'negotiations' over new 'treaties', why they freak out when bodies like the ITU try to take over running something or implementing more control over something, more fool them. the US is doing whatever it takes, whatever it can to take control of the whole nine yards! it wants to have every bit of data on everyone and everything, but doesn't want anyone else to have that data. to go down this route of being able to access info on non-US citizens or even US citizens that live in other countries is taking the piss. talk about defeat German Fascism so as to gradually bring in the home-grown version. what a joke!
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:28am

Re:
Which will in turn lead to geopolitical "fences" around the internet. The ITU will have it's way, eventually...
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Zakida Paul (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:35am

Re: Own Goal
Good. It might force them to change their business practices to make them acceptable.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:47am

Re: Own Goal
I have been advising people not to use any US-based service providers for quite some time now, partly because of things like the above, but also because most if not all companies tend to shut down service to the whim of any government official (and a number of non-gov other companies). So no GoDaddy, Amazon, etc. Not that local companies may not do the same, but at least you know what your rights are and where you can get them (up to a point).

And of course the same goes for companies that use them.

So yes, this is already costing the US business, and it will probably only get worse.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 3:01am

Well, at least if there was some non - US based file storage and cloud service provider with good services - oh, wait, that was the direction Megaupload was about to take, and a plan Dotcom still endorses. "Ahem - PIRACY". Nevermind.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 3:10am

I'm getting confused
Damn.

Now I have to go back and reread the US statements about why they're opposed to ITU's WCIT initiative because apparently I completely misunderstood it.
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Anonymous, 7 Dec 2012 @ 3:36am

"You should've read the books and understood that America's no damn good." -Sister Souljah
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 3:58am

Re: I'm getting confused
"The US" is not some monolithic entity. As soon as you understand that, things will start making sense.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 4:06am

legal protection under specific U.S. laws applies primarily to U.S. citizens and residents
I wish. As soon as they ran into that hurdle, they came up with a "secret interpretation" of the law that lets them spy on anyone, anytime, without any oversight or accountability.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 4:43am

The NSA should, via shell companies, become the major cloud provider in every country. This would save the US tax payer money and make data gathering so much simpler./s
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 4:48am

Re: Re:
If they cant control, fragment the internet......win win.

Control/manipulate undesired outside information, or cut of the ability for that communication
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gorehound (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 5:01am

Re: Own Goal
I stay away from using US Business when I can in regards to this type of stuff.
And I do not use Cloud at all.I do use a VPN which is on a Foreign Company who does not keep Logs.

I advise folks to do the same and stay away from US as your info will be known.

It will be great to see folks around the World wake up and realize what is going on if they use the US stuff.
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The Real Michael, 7 Dec 2012 @ 5:16am

One thing this article doesn't explain is what the US intends to do with the info that's being retrieved. Does anyone know? It seems odd that they're taking up interest in foreign medical dossiers, of all things.
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Michael, 7 Dec 2012 @ 5:25am

Re:
They aren't. The article is citing an example that has made a group of people uneasy. The US (as far as we can see from the information provided) has not accessed this information. The problem is that under the Patriot Act, they can.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 5:35am

Re: Re:
I woudn't bet on it, apply for a visa to visit the US and they will hoover up every bit of data on you that they can find.
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Beta (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 6:04am

Re:
A few DC politicians may protest in soft voices. Most will go along quietly as everyone in law enforcement, intelligence, pharmaceutics, IP protection, security theater (sorry, theatre) or a dozen other fields sets up transatlantic deals to trade EU citizens' info for US citizens' info.
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SUNWARD (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 6:04am

Re: Own Goal
already moved my hosting and registrar from the US for these reasons.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 6:57am

Data Security
If you do not control the machines that hold your data then you do not control access to that data. This holds true when cloud services and/or external companies running your machines.
Whenever a person or organization does not have control over their data storage they can be held hostage by another entity, and risk losing all their data if they fall out with that entity, or it ceases to exist.
How long before the US government uses cloud services as coercion in gaining their way in trade treaties.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 7:00am

Re: Re: Own Goal
The only business practice they could change would be to move to another country and incorporate there.

What it might do is force the businesses to call Congress to tell them to stop passing stupid laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 7:09am

Re: Re: I'm getting confused
No, it's like EA - a huge masochistic Cthulhoid entity that has multiple separate interests at heart.
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G Thompson (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 7:15am

Thankfully here in Australia the Government has mandated that at a Federal and State level (under our own Privacy Rules) NO data of any sort by any government or quasi-government (or even ones that tender to govt) can be held outside of Australia at all.

This strangely enough has made the US companies annoyed with the Australian Government to the extent that the USG has queried it and made an issue about it to no effect whatsoever. Our Privacy laws cannot be diluted, changed, nor removed for any reason for anyone no matter what any treaty the USG wants to rant about.
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Michael, 7 Dec 2012 @ 7:18am

Re: Re: Re:
You don't have to visit. If you use Expedia to book your trip anywhere, apparently the Patriot Act let's them hoover up your information remotely.

Don't even get me started on what they collect if you actually buy a Hoover...
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Michael, 7 Dec 2012 @ 7:19am

Re: Data Security
"How long before the US government uses cloud services as coercion in gaining their way in trade treaties"

They already have the MPAA for that.
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Michael, 7 Dec 2012 @ 7:23am

Re:
"Federal and State level (under our own Privacy Rules) NO data of any sort by any government or quasi-government (or even ones that tender to govt) can be held outside of Australia at all"

Sure, but the US government has access to lots of private company information (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and health providers that use something remotely attached to a US company, etc.).
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G Thompson (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 7:47am

Re: Re:
All health records from Private or Public health providers are NOT allowed out of the country in any way shape nor form. In fact the Records are highly restricted and come under the National Privacy principals specifically that have full criminal (not just civil/governmental fines) sanctions attached for all knowing individuals (glass ceiling for PTY/LTD is gone in this respect)

The info that private individuals and in a limited way business's place upon Google, Facebook, et.al are fair game yes. But a company that uses these venues is still liable believe it or not under the Privacy Act, and also under numerous other acts like the one that creates criminal sanctions for SPAM and selling of identifiable lists of people who are placed upon the DNC register.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 8:24am

It's definitely time to shut down the US.
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Jesse (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 8:25am

Re: Own Goal
When I got tested for my life insurance policy I had my provider switch to an all Canadian company for this very reason.
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The Real Michael, 7 Dec 2012 @ 8:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The only logical explanation seems to be that they'd want to create a profiling database to be freely accessed by all interested gov/law parties. The thing is, much of that data would be acquired without rhyme or reason and with zero oversight, then inevitably be used against certain individuals. Sort of like playing god with people's lives.
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John Fenderson (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 9:18am

Re: Re: Own Goal
Yes, I've been making the same recommendations for the same reasons.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re: Data Security
The MPAA couldn�t credibly threaten a to take-down a medical database.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2012 @ 2:42pm

Re:
Agreed!
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Wally (profile), 7 Dec 2012 @ 4:28pm

The reason the Feds are doing this is for Obamacare. So the main motivation is insurance and not your personal life...does it make it right? Not one bit it doesn't.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Dec 2012 @ 4:23pm

Re: Re: I'm getting confused
Try telling "The US" that.
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btrussell (profile), 8 Dec 2012 @ 11:14pm

Re:
?

I think you need to give Mrs. Wally a break. Why don't you type with Mrs. Wally and let Mr. Wally hold your dick for a while?
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