Piano Instructor Claims Copyright On Writing Letters On Piano Keys

from the expression-of-a-bad-idea dept

Wed, May 29th 2013 8:27am — Timothy Geigner

With the general public not being heavily invested in the nuances of copyright, you expect mistakes to be made, but the idea/expression dichotomy is fairly central to the entire copyright endeavor. Given that, I have come to expect anyone who throws around legal threats and/or DMCA notices to at least know what the hell they're talking about. I don't think it's too much to ask someone, who can potentially erase the work of others, to use that power judiciously, yet problems persist. For example, there was the time when two major networks butted heads over the basic concepts of reality television. And it stands to reason that if two major broadcast entities with gobs of lawyers chomping at the proverbial bit can't get the basics right, then you can expect similar problems with individuals.

Serving as an example, we have Shawn Cheek, YouTube piano teacher, who has claimed copyright on a teaching method consisting of writing out the letters for notes on their associated piano keys. Beyond just his laughably annoying claim, he's apparently been going on the offensive against other YouTube piano teachers.

He has apparently convinced Mark de Heide, the 23-year-old creator of PGN Piano lessons, to take down all of his videos that display the letters of notes above the keyboard (e.g. a visual display of "C, D, E, C," for frere jacques). Mark took the bait, and stated in a video he's removed all of his YouTube lesson videos that contain the fundamental piano practice technique. He also worried about YouTube taking action over the lessons he recording [sic] teaching pop hits.

It's bad enough when legitimate copyrights are used to hinder broad instructional methods and information, but when the claim is blatantly one that cannot be copyrighted, it's down right infuriating. Cheek is reported to have a series of DVDs using this "innovative," write-stuff-on-the-keys method -- and those DVDs, i.e. the actual expression, certainly can be copyrighted, but the teaching method is an idea. It can't be copyrighted. Yet now, thanks to the aggressive ownership culture that has resulted from a reaching and complex copyright law, all of de Heide's videos have been removed. He isn't even challenging their removal. Why? Well, because he doesn't really know how copyright works either, but he does know that he's afraid of the legal repercussions that might result. Those videos, by the way, had millions of views and were quite popular. It's very likely that de Heide was making his living in part from those videos.

The only encouraging part of this story is the YouTube comments to de Heide, in which commenters actually displayed a decent knowledge of the idea/expression dichotomy. For instance, one user stated:

"What Shawn has protected is the recordings of his performance (in other words the recordings of Shawn instructing people how to play songs in his DVDS and etc.). You would infringe his copyright by making, copying, uploading, distributing, or many [sic] available copies of his recordings to the public without his permission. I recommend you discuss the following discussion points with your lawyer."

If the ultimate result of aggressive and misused intellectual property laws is a better informed public that not only knows the law, but also can recognize its intrinsic abuses, then so much the better. Until that pivotal point is reached, however, we'll have to hear about piano teachers not being able to write letters on keys.

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Filed Under: copyright, idea expression dichotomy, mark de heide, piano lessons, shawn cheek

54 Comments

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fogbugzd (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 8:02am

I took piano lessons back in the late 1950's. Letters were written on the keys. Is there a piano teacher or student anywhere who has not at least considered the idea?

Yet apparently our marvelous DCMA system coupled with horendous YouTube policies that are quick to label accounts an infringing allows anyone to claim ownership of almost anything on YouTube
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 8:38am

Hollywood and the labels have taught people to be aggressive about copyright by all but destroying the idea of fair use. They have also taught that the legal system and DMCA notices can be used to attack competitors. Shawn Cheek is simply following their example of how to attack all and any competitor.
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Richard (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 8:39am

Beyond ridiculous.
This is beyond ridiculous.
1. Copyright does not cover "teaching methods" in any jurisdiction of which I am aware.
Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Scope if you don't beleive me.
2. Such things couold perhaps be covered by a patent - but that is entirely different. It would require an actual patent to have been issued. If this guy had one he would surely have quoted it by number.
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Richard (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 8:41am

Re:
According to the linked article a YouTube takedown was not involved - the request came direct - with a threat letter.
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Richard (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 8:43am

Removal
all of de Heide's videos have been removed. He isn't even challenging their removal.

Because he removed them himself. Yotube was not involved.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 8:43am

You get what you vote for
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 8:52am

Re:
Then how come I don't have government made of people with rational plans for minimal government that supplies essential services and infrastructure while allowing private industry to compete to provide the best value for non-essential services.

I can assure you I didn't vote for any of the clowns currently spending my tax dollars.
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Richard (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 8:52am

Some prior art
Here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Piano-Keyboard-Music-Note-Stickers-Full-Set-/121104694206?pt=UK_Mus icalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item1c3266fbbe
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 8:53am

Re:
So we voted for a piano teacher who knows nothing about copyright?
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Richard (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 8:56am

Re: Some prior art
Also here:
http://www.easykeys88.co.uk/
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Soundy (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 8:56am

Re:
I had exactly the same thought - I remember my piano instructors (plural!) doing this in the early 70s.

Perhaps they stole the idea from your teacher? Perhaps your teacher should be suing mine?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 8:57am

My 20 year old Yamaha keyboard has letters on the keys, So do I have to paint over them,So I don't infringe this smucks copyright.
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Richard (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 9:08am

Re:
Err no - I think you just blew the remnants of his case out of the water!
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This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

out_of_the_blue, 29 May 2013 @ 9:13am

Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
It's ALL about "aggressive and misused intellectual property laws", NOT the laws as such! We need to get bad actors under control -- and that especially means limit income for those at truly obscene levels from minor efforts, whether corporate fat cats, manufactured rock stars like Britney Spears, or mediocrities like Tom Cruise. Above a certain level, steeply progressive income taxes should remove money as a literally insanity-producing incentive, and we'll all be better off.

[Better than your usual writing in this, Timmy, BUT I'd at least change: "With the general public not being heavily invested in the nuances of copyright, you expect mistakes to be made, but" to "While the general public may not know every nuance of copyright," And remove "chomping at the proverbial bit", especially "proverbial", simply archaic verbiage, likely readers have no idea what it refers to. If you want to use a metaphor, invent something to do with computers, like "tapping the mouse key ready to click". -- But for purposes of edumacation here, I retain copyright to that phrase!]
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 9:18am

Re: Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
nobody's interested dude
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This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

out_of_the_blue, 29 May 2013 @ 9:20am

Re: Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
Oh, I meant to emphasize that use of "intellectual property" passed without comment that I see, so let's not have any more foolishness here that it's an invalid concept. You all know what it means.
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Trails (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Some prior art
Also here: http://www.staples.ca/en/Label-Makers/cat_CL200814_2-CA_1_20001

(i.e. labelling things what they are)

This is like patenting crap "on the internet" except this "on the piano" and its copyright which is... odd...
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Dark Helmet (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 9:26am

Re: Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
"Better than your usual writing in this, Timmy"

Gee, now I can finally die happy....
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Greggore, 29 May 2013 @ 9:26am

Mozart's father did this
In the late 1400's Little Mozart had this done to him by his father to help him learn to place piano faster. He then stopped when he realized that little Mozart's ability to read was poorer than his piano playing.
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Greggore, 29 May 2013 @ 9:27am

Re: Mozart's father did this
Sorry, I should have pointed out that little Mozart was just over 3 years old at the time. that might make more sense for everyone.
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dennis deems (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 9:33am

Re: Re:
I can assure you I didn't vote for any of the clowns currently spending my tax dollars.

Don't blame me! I voted for Kodos!
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 9:38am

Re: Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
I wouldn't remove "proverbial" because it's archaic... I'd remove it because it's incorrect. Unless there's some proverb regarding horses chomping at bits that I'm not aware of. He could have said "metaphorical bit", but why bother? It's not like people aren't going to recognize that it's a metaphor.

As for the copyright claim... yeah, it's ridiculous. You cannot copyright anything which is primarily functional, such as accurate labels on piano keys (this is the reason why most clothing is not eligible for copyright.) And I'd be willing to bet that labels have only been done before, but they've been done so long ago that any copyrights, if they ever existed, have long since expired. Perhaps he could have copyrighted a particular STYLE of labeling, but it would have to be awfully creative to qualify, and also would pretty much have to be copied exactly to have been infringed.

"Above a certain level, steeply progressive income taxes should remove money as a literally insanity-producing incentive, and we'll all be better off."

I don't think that would help in this particular case. I doubt that either piano teacher is making obscene amounts of money.
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madasahatter (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 9:55am

Re: Re:
I took piano also but never wrote the letters on the keys, however.

I suspect piano teaches having been doing this since the piano was invented and probably borrowed the idea from other keyboard instruments.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 10:04am

"Serving as an example, we have Shawn Cheek, YouTube piano teacher, who has claimed copyright on a teaching method consisting of writing out the letters for notes on their associated piano keys."

This is the kind of legal threat that is best addressed by responding with a form letter bearing the following legalese:

[YOUR NAME]
[YOUR ADDRESS]

Dear [Attorney / Bloodsucker]:

Fuck off.

Very Truly Yours,
[Your Name]

cc: Somebody who gives a damn.

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JEDIDIAH, 29 May 2013 @ 10:18am

Re: Re: Mozart's father did this
Not really. All it does is further demonstrate how we've managed to lower our expectations for children while the technological sophistication of society has increased.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 10:21am

Re: Removal
He's blaming copyright abuse, not YouTube. Not that YouTube probably would have taken if asked
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Oblate (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 10:36am

If/when this comes back to bite him...
If/when this comes back to bite him, the imaginary worlds smallest violin that I play for him will have the letters for each string painted on.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 10:54am

Pretty bizarre case. Sean creek claims that this was not letters on keys but fails to clarify what it was being infringed.. Both teachers refuse to call each other out by name. Now they've reached some an 'agreement'. No details provided. Mark now claims his business is destroyed and that he has to move to a different house. Nothing is clear here.
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ShellMG (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 10:55am

For their next trick: filing copyright/trademark on FACE and Every Good Boy Does Fine Always.

Er...it's been +30 years so I can't remember the bass clef.
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DanZee (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 11:52am

Copyright
I wrote my name on my forehead. Can I patent that?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 11:57am

Re: Re:
" allowing private industry to compete to provide the best value for non-essential services."

Because when private industry operates without legal oversight (or minimal oversight) we end up with problems like a Recession and the phrase "caveat emptor" (Let the Buyer BEWARE!)?
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Baldaur Regis (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 11:58am

Re:
Your comment is both insightful AND funny. However, you are not a lawyer, sir. It takes at least 6 pages to tell someone to fuck off in the legal sense. Curiously, it only takes 4 pages to tell someone to pound sand up their ass until they can hear the ocean. Ah, the vagaries of law.
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Sheriff Fatman, 29 May 2013 @ 12:13pm

Re:
I refer you to the case of Arkell vs. Pressdram (1971).
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 12:24pm

'when the claim is blatantly one that cannot be copyrighted, it's down right infuriating'

what is even more infuriating is the fact that those that can correct this abuse know all about it and still refuse to do anything, mainly because they would lose the backhand payments they are getting from the entertainment industries. how pathetic is that? having a government made up of bribed politicians! must be somewhere east of the EU, surely! best try somewhere a damn sight closer than that!!
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DannyB (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 1:39pm

Re: Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
It doesn't matter what you say at this point. Nobody believes you.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 3:10pm

Re:
I think you're the winner this week.
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btr1701 (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 4:07pm

Re:
> Yet apparently our marvelous DCMA system
> coupled with horendous YouTube policies
> that are quick to label accounts an infringing
> allows anyone to claim ownership of almost
> anything on YouTube

If anything, I'm surprised it's not abused more often.

Judging by the comments on just about every single video that allows them, you literally can't put up anything on YouTube without pissing someone off somehow.
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btr1701 (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 4:29pm

Re: Re: Re:
> Don't blame me! I voted for Kodos!

Excellent...
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btr1701 (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 4:31pm

Re: Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
> and that especially means limit income for
> those at truly obscene levels from minor efforts,

In other words, you're for more and greater legalized theft.

Understood, comrade.
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That One Guy (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 4:56pm

Re:
You want an awesome(and ancient) way to tell someone off, nobody did it better than these guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks
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dennis deems, 29 May 2013 @ 6:36pm

Re: Mozart's father did this
Here in the states we refer to those years as the 1700's.
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cpt kangarooski, 29 May 2013 @ 6:55pm

Re: Holy cow! Timmy actually has it right!
It's ALL about "aggressive and misused intellectual property laws", NOT the laws as such!

No, the laws are still bad. First, they enable bad actors who engage in abuse. Second, they chill otherwise unobjectionable uses, such as in the case of orphan works. Paring down the laws to a reasonable level would be good all around.

But feel free to raise income taxes at high brackets, impose wealth taxes, etc.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 May 2013 @ 7:06pm

Copyright at its best and brightest.
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Jason Dole, 29 May 2013 @ 11:46pm

Infringement Everywhere!
I was shocked when a friend posted this article to my Facebook for two reasons. First: my friend is not the author of this content! Second: I'm pretty sure someone else already owns the rights to the concept of posting on FB.
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G Thompson (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 11:46pm

Re: Re:
I have to disagree...

The famous reply in Arkell v. Pressdram (1971) [unreported] which is quoted by all solicitors in the UK and other commonwealth countries - in the USA it can even be used as well though Ken White's from Popehat "snort my taint" phrase is sometimes better ;)

Therefore:
[YOUR NAME]
[YOUR ADDRESS]

Sir/s,

I refer you to the reply given in Arkell and Pressdram.

Yours [Your Name]
Is the best legal response to anything like this

:)
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G Thompson (profile), 29 May 2013 @ 11:50pm

Re: Re:
Ha.. never knew David had made a post of it.. LOL.. Must refer people to that instead from now on too.
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Sheogorath (profile), 30 May 2013 @ 1:32am

Re: Re: Mozart's father did this
Quite right. Also the 18th century.
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Sheogorath (profile), 30 May 2013 @ 1:37am

Re: Copyright
I doubt it, but could I patent writing my name on my forehead so it reads forwards without the aid of a mirror?
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shawncheek (profile), 1 Jun 2013 @ 7:12pm

The Lie About Me
The issue was not using letters to teach piano lessons, it was the fact that 60 of my personal arrangements and transcriptions were plagiarized, including my commentary during my lessons. It was less embarrassing for Mark to tell everyone that I had copyrighted using letters than to tell his audience the whole truth, and I understand why he did that. Now that he is not copying my arrangements and lesson content, I hope that we can both continue with our youtube channels peacefully.
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patg, 2 Jun 2013 @ 7:11pm

Piano Instructor Claims Copyright On Writing Letters On Piano Keys
I seem to recall having arrived at this idea out of necessity back around 1982 when learning to control an analogue synthesizer via the usual chromatic keyboard provided as controller device. This f***ing fool thinks he's got a monopoly on the concept? If someone else does not want to kick his backside down the nearest asphalt stretch to dissuade him, please advise and I will volunteer.
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patg, 2 Jun 2013 @ 7:11pm

Piano Instructor Claims Copyright On Writing Letters On Piano Keys
I seem to recall having arrived at this idea out of necessity back around 1982 when learning to control an analogue synthesizer via the usual chromatic keyboard provided as controller device. This f***ing fool thinks he's got a monopoly on the concept? If someone else does not want to kick his backside down the nearest asphalt stretch to dissuade him, please advise and I will volunteer.
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Tex Arcana (profile), 3 Jun 2013 @ 7:37pm

Re:
My dad did this for me when he taught me piano.

I guess Cheek can go dig my dad up from his grave to serve him with the DMCA papers.
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Anne L, 23 Dec 2013 @ 1:14pm

Business
How can she claim a copyright on something like that? I thought everybody did it. It's really not that great of an idea. I mean, my daughter thought of it and she's only 5.
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JJ Evans, 31 Jul 2018 @ 2:43pm

butthead
Shawn Cheek has shown himself to be a complete doofus. I emailed him about a single song and he said I had to join the whole membership just to get the ONE song. I said that was too expensive and he had a diaper baby fit.
Not good to treat potential customers the way he did.
I will NEVER give him my business.
Jerk
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