Yes, The NSA Surveillance Story Shows Why Wikileaks And Similar Sites Are Necessary
from the leakers-are-needed dept
With all the attention on NSA surveillance, the Bradley Manning trial has faded a bit into the background (and it already wasn't getting nearly the coverage it deserved). And yet, this should be a reminder of why sites like Wikileaks are so important. The big revelations over the past week on NSA surveillance both came from internal leaks. And, given the Obama administration's laser-like focus on punishing anyone who leaks anything marginally embarrassing, it's not difficult to see just how hard the administration is likely to come down on whistleblower Ed Snowden for leaking this information. And yet, this information is important for the world -- and especially Americans -- to understand how the government appears to be twisting the law over and over again to expand their ability to spy on everyone.![Hide This Hide this](https://ii.techdirt.com/s/t/i/topclose.png)
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Filed Under: edward snowden, leaks, nsa, nsa surveillance, whistleblowing, wikileaks
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thyere ya go
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Re: thyere ya go
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Re: thyere ya go
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Re: thyere ya go
"We are going to have a lot more significant revelations that have not yet been heard over the next several weeks and months," said Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian."
http://news.yahoo.com/journalist-us-surveillance-case-more-come-050921834.html
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Re: thyere ya go
It's perfectly normal in a Democracy for a branch of the government to trample the constitution and spy on it's citizens.
Mike, just bring back the usual chatter about Copyright so that we can have pointless discussions on morality while the USA crumbles into the dark ages.
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Re: Re: thyere ya go
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Re: Re: thyere ya go
It would be important if they had done it. They have not.
So really, it's just lots of hot air and top search activity on Google as far as Techdirt is concerned.
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Re: Re: Re: thyere ya go
Wow...ignorance is bliss.
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Re: Re: Re: thyere ya go
I urge you to stop being a wise ass and demand that your government sorts this out quickly, or else you won't be "Land of the free" for long.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: thyere ya go
Not dictatorship. Tyranny and corporate rule. And we aren't just sliding there, we've fully arrived.
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Re: Re: Re: thyere ya go
So you say. I disagree in the strongest possible way.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: thyere ya go
Do you think the helicopters are there only for you?
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Re: thyere ya go
Could it be the hypocrisy of parading so called Benghazi whistle-blowers in front of a sympathetic audience asking for consequences for the perceived persecution as opposed to the desire for revenge in this particular case ?
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Re: Re: thyere ya go
I don't find it uncomfortable at all. I was only pointing out that Mike and techdirt are being keyword sluts, desperately trying to drive traffic to the site by repeating the keywords over and over hoping to get a top ranking in Google.
It's slimy.
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Re: Re: Re: thyere ya go
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Re: thyere ya go
Abuses of the law in the name of copyright? You harp on about Mike even reporting that.
Lawyers shaking down thousands of people using shoddy evidence in an extortion racket? You harp on about Mike even reporting that.
US government is revealed to be conducting massive surveillance on AT LEAST 121 million of its citizens? You harp on about Mike even reporting on that.
President Obama goes on a shooting spree and kills hundreds (fantastical I know, but bare with me)? You would without a doubt harp on about Mike even talking about it.
You're not criticizing anything being reported. You're criticizing the fact it is being reported at all. What pray tell is a valid article then? What should Mike talk about? Please oh please tell us at Techdirt what we should be talking about? Do we have your blessing to talk about abuses of the law?
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Re: Re: thyere ya go
1) Mike (and the other contributors) don't give a shit about what they write, they just want to get as many page views as possible.
2) Mike should clearly lay out his political and ethical philosophies, and debate that with commenters.
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firehose of Information
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Re: firehose of Information
We ask young men and women to risk their lives to fight wars with no cause. Then we take their school benefits away, deny them proper health care, punish them if they have christian or conservative views.
It's sickening to see money wasted on overbroad spying programs or welfare for people who do not benefit this country.
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Re: Re: firehose of Information
Huh?
How so.
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Re: Re: Re: firehose of Information
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http://gazette.com/pentagons-strange-alliance-with-mikey-weinstein/article/1500225
http:// www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/the-pentagon-most-certain_b_3368434.html
Or generally look up the recent furor (late April, early May 2013) about the curtailing of religious freedom, particularly for Christians.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: firehose of Information
Ya know what would be proof? If in applying to be a soldier, one were asked "What religion are you?" and upon answering "Christian", you were then summarily rejected.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: firehose of Information
How about some rational thought instead.
The term Religious Freedom may not mean what you think it means.
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Re: Re: firehose of Information
You're spouting the jingoistic crap of those who fall for the worst and simplest lies, that the US in under "existential threat" and must wage war on -- someone, doesn't really matter -- a vague "al Qaeda" that's everywhere and nowhere, easily expanded to "dictators" as in Libya and now Syria, but in reality it's peoples with brown skins who have oil. The whole Iraq war was knowingly based on fabrications of "WMD" and the sheer lie that the US was going to "liberate" Iraqis from an evil dictator.
Well, HERE'S some of the results of you believing those LIES and unleashing the dogs of war, first an only too typical item that shows how Iraq is FAR worse than ever:
Another Bloody Monday in Iraq: 94 Killed, 289 Wounded
http://original.antiwar.com/updates/2013/06/10/another-bloody-monday-in-iraq-94-killed-289- wounded/
And next, you'd better have a strong stomach for:
What's delaying the WHO report on Iraqi birth defects?
http://uruknet.com/?p=m98206&hd=&size=1&l=e
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Not in this country buddy. We have freedom of religion. If you want that sort of thing, there are plenty of atheist countries in Asia that I might suggest to you. Please. Go now. Don't come back. You un-American communist.
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In my country, the news coverage about this incident was something along the lines of "Some whistle-blower leaked some papers about the NSA spying on Americans. Now, back to Soccer news.". Two minutes stuffed between Nelson Mandela almost dying and sports news.
The most in-depth news coverage I've seen came from BBC World News.
Anyway, back on point: I certainly hope that, for the sake of your freedoms, you Americans don't let them brush this under the rug. Heads need to roll. You need to make it abundantly clear that you will not tolerate this kind of behaviour from your government.
Or else, you might as well start practising your "Heil Obama" (or Heil whoever comes next...you get the point).
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Informed Consent
Without accurate information, we are denied our designed role in this nation's governance.
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Re: Informed Consent
NSA " I don't know, what is your name ?"
Fred Smith.
NSA "then Yes, hello Fred"
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New Yorker showed DeadDrop/Strongbox but so far that system is unproven. At least Wikileaks has been proven, since US had to find out from very different sources that it was Manning.
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Makes them look kind of pointless really, right !!!
instead this person when to someone or something THAT MATTER, the print media.
and especially Americans -- to understand how the government appears to be twisting the law over and over again to expand their ability to spy on everyone.
except the majority of Americans agree that what the NSA is doing is both necessary and appropriate..
Snowden, he's simply another traitor, just like Manning, what is worse is neither of them are very bright. Snowden has been (correctly) portrayed as a "low level computer tech who clearly does not understand the appropriate checks and balances, nor the Constitutional correctness of the information he released (or fabricated).
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Funny how keen you are for governments to spy on people and anyone who disapproves is a traitor. Or does shutting down hundreds of thousands of websites in Australia give you a hard-on down under, you turdtwat?
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Re:
56% in a random poll is not "a majority".
It's a coin toss.
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http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/june_2013/59 _oppose_government_s_secret_collecting_of_phone_records
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�Which Polls Fared Best (and Worst) in the 2012 Presidential Race�, by Nate Silver, New York Times: FiveThirtyEight, November 2012
�
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Which is why Karl Rove had a meltdown.
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last I checked 56 is higher than 50..
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Claimed margin of error for the Pew Research Poll is 3.7% at 95% confidence.
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Are you seriously willing to bet the future of your country on a coin toss?
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1) Print media vs Wikileaks
Is it not possible that leakers might have different needs and may not have connections in a well established media outlet (not just print) such as the guardian. The aim is to inform the public.
2) "the majority of Americans agree"
What a load of tosh. There's been a small survey done on a limited sample and even that was close. Then there's the fact that no member of the public knows what the NSA are actually doing so they can't agree with it.
3)Snowden is a "low level computer tech who clearly does not understand the appropriate checks and balances"
I think you're wrong but lets examine this. If he doesn't understand the system and he's been given the privileges he claims, then the NSA is either failing to train it's staff and/or is not performing the required oversight. Either way that is not an organisation I want having my data.
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that would equally apply to someone disagreeing with it !!!
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How can you possibly believe that what they're doing is justified and acceptable if you don't know what it is that you're saying is justified?
On the other hand even with the limited knowledge I have I can form the opinion that it's already too much snooping for too little benefit.
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But some of us like to use our brains and make a general opinion using decades of govt activities and stories as a basis.
From this we can determine:
a) the govt always finds fun and interesting ways to interpret laws to gain more power
b) sometimes just takes more power and then later changes laws and forgives itself
c) plenty of people don't want to think for themselves and so will just wait for whatever the govt tells them is going on, with no sense of irony that they were lying to our faces 12 seconds ago but NOW they are telling the truth. For real this time! Guys, seriously! They swear they aren't crossing their fingers or ANYthing!
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Wikileaks and SIMILAR SITES. Not just Wikileaks, but other sites focusing on leaked material. God, you guys have admitted to not bothering to read articles, are you now not bothering to even read the HEADLINES?
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but NO "sites" were used, this guy went to the PRINT MEDIA to get 'his' word out.
Wikeleaks, is talked about a lot because they released lots of information,
THE INFORMATION DID NOT PROMOTE DEBATE, and has been shown to be mostly useless at best, aiding the enemy at worst.
Quote from 'Mark' on Gigaom
"Whatever good it COULD have done was swiftly and thoroughly invalidated by Assange�s bad behavior. What bad thing was exposed from this huge dump of secret stuff stolen by Manning. War sucks? Soldiers are mean to the enemy? Bad people do bad things, and think their uniform justifies it? One ambassador called another ambassador names in a secret cable? Is anything different because of the loss of 300K documents?
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Whether or not one believes Manning did the right thing or not in releasing those cables, to then say there was no debate?
OF COURSE THERE WAS DEBATE! That's why whenever you get a group of US citizens in a room and just mention Manning's name, some of them will support him, some of them won't and there will be a DISCUSSION over it!
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Do you see the difference ??
I guess not..
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Glen Greenwald is NOT typical print media. He cut a deal with Salon years ago, which he also cut with the Guardian, to have full editorial control over his columns.
He is able to post directly without an editor. He also gets most of his income not from the paper, but from those readers who choose to support him.
Additionally, Greenwald is one of the leading journalists covering and Assange, Manning, Wikileaks, and anything else related to govt encroachment on liberties.
Whats more, he is EXCEEDINGLY critical of most journalists for playing political games at the expense of getting the truth and exposing corruption.
So to say this was standard print media and unlike wikileaks or that type of website is absurd.
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He's not alone -- almost nobody "understands the appropriate checks and balances" or "the Constitutional correctness", as none of that has been shown outside of a small group of elites.
And that is the biggest (but not the only) problem with this whole situation. A highly invasive, and on the face of it, unconstitutional program was implemented completely in secret by fiat, and is run completely in secret, and the only justification or explanation we've been given is "trust us, because... terrorists!!"
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Forward planning
Whether or not you agree with what he did, this man has cojones...
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Re: Forward planning
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http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1257639/treaty-gives-hong-kong-option-reject-snow den-extradition-us
So...US citizen heavily embarrasses the US government, shows how evil it is, flees to Hong Kong. If I were the Chinese government, I'd give him a fucking palace and a harem as a reward. I simply cannot conceive of the Chinese granting extradition in this case. They would have no reason to, and every reason not to. By keeping Snowden in Hong Kong, they can keep pointing to him and say "Look here, he's living proof that the US government is just as bad as they say we are".
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Re: Re: Re: Forward planning
Time will tell, but it does not look good for him, that is probably why he's gone back into hiding.
Hong Kong will not take up that option. Simple as that.
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"Americas greatest citizens" LOL
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Forward planning
Stop talking shit, you've got nothing other than baseless accusations. The man is a hero who has stood up against what he (and roughly half of the public) believes to be wrong.
Treason means something else entirely.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Forward planning
For some nobody hack in Australia you seem to have a lot of vested interest in citizens being spied on. Is that how you get a hard-on? Personally I don't think solar panels work too well if you jack off over them.
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Shocker!
Is there no criminal piece of shit that Mikey doesn't idolize?
No wonder he's too chicken shit to have a direct and honest discussion about ANYTHING.
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What you call treason is anything but. It is treason for the US intelligence community to spy on its own citizens in such a way as this, and then for their head to lie to Congress about it. That is treason.
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Technically, although despicable, that isn't treason either.
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No wonder you're too chickenshit to have a direct and honest discussion about John Steele. Is there no criminal piece of shit that average_joe doesn't idolise?
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http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120818/01171420087/funniestmost-insightful-comments -week-techdirt.shtml#c1210
You were saying?
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No story here
It's very difficult to swallow the "We need this to keep you safe" explanation, with zero proof that it is actually keeping anyone safe.
Intercepting all communications to prevent a statistically improbable event seems like a leap of faith.
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