Senator Warren: If TPP Transparency Would Lead To Public Opposition, Then TPP Is Wrong
from the nicely-stated dept
It would appear that new Senator Elizabeth Warren is on the side of transparency when it comes the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement. Sometimes it feels like Senator Wyden is the only one who cares about this issue, so it would be nice to have someone else step in as well. Following USTR nominee Michael Froman's Senate hearings, Warren has sent a letter to the White House asking for its negotiating position on the TPP. The key point, which should be repeated over and over again is the following:I have heard the argument that transparency would undermine the Administration's policy to complete the trade agreement because public opposition would be significant. If transparency would lead to widespread public opposition to a trade agreement, then that trade agreement should not be the policy of the United States. I believe in transparency and democracy and I think the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) should too.This is actually in direct response to claims from the former USTR, Ron Kirk, who pointed to a failed trade agreement -- the Free Trade Area of the Americas -- which was handled in a much more open fashion as support for why the TPP must remain secret. But the reasoning there, as Senator Warren correctly notes, is ridiculous. If the trade agreement failed because the public opposed it, that should be seen as a good thing, because the government was stopped from going against the will of the people.
Warren's overall letter is great. Here's another snippet and the full text is embedded below.
President Obama made transparency and inclusion a centerpiece of his election, and in many areas, he has opened the doors of government to ensure that the product of governing can withstand public scrutiny and is not the product of back-room deal making.
While I have no doubt that the President's commitment to openness is genuine, I am concerned about the Administration's record of transparency regarding the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Specifically, I am troubled by the Administration's unwillingness to provide to the public the composite bracketed text relating to the negotiations. As you know, the composite bracketed text includes not only proposed language from the United States but also proposed language from other countries. These different proposals are brought together in one text, and negotiations focus on ironing out the various proposals and getting to agreement on common language. The lack of transparency in this area is troubling because, as you know, the bracketed text serves as the focal point for actual negotiations. I appreciate the willingness of the USTR to make various documents available for review by members of Congress, but I do not believe that is a substitute for more robust public transparency.
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Filed Under: democracy, elizabeth warren, michael froman, public opposition, secrecy, tpp, transparency, ustr
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"Americans' confidence in Congress as an institution is down to 10%, ranking the legislative body last on a list of 16 societal institutions for the fourth straight year. This is the lowest level of confidence Gallup has found, not only for Congress, but for any institution on record."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/163052/americans-confidence-congress-falls-lowest-record.aspx
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A little wiki edit...
FTFY, Senator Warren.
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Transparency has it's limits too
In a totally transparent negotiation,any time something is even suggested, you will get an uproar from some group who isn't entirely happy. If this happens every time you look for some space to negotiate on, you end up having your hands tied by political popularity contests. Essentially, if a trade agreement hurts big tobacco even slightly, the Senator for the great smoke states will stand up grandstand against the agreement, just to play politcal favor to his donors and electorate (who may work in that field).
What they don't understand is that it is often just an opening move, a suggestion, a place where some action might happen, and not a finished product.
The result? 250 plus million back seat drivers, all screaming to drive a different direction at a different speed and crying "are we there yet?". Nothing gets done.
Public consultation is nice, but you can't get anything big done if you need to pretty much have a public referendum before you can even order lunch.
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
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Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
It's not a question of trading one groups interest at the expense of the public, rather it's about not having to involve everyone in the country every time you want to make any sort of an offer or movement. Trade agreements are complicated things, and just like any negotiation, sometimes you give away a little here to get a little more there.
Kirk was just concerned (rightly so in my opinion) that too much transparency (aka constant reporting and updating and feedback looping) would end up killing any process. Any time you put anything on the table that might in any way impact any group, regardless of the getback on the other side, you would have to deal with an endless protest process.
It's pretty silly to think of the idea of any negotiations working under that situation.
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Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
If the intent is to serve the aims of a few industries, like pharmaceuticals and media, then secrecy is required, but that is a hijacking of trade treaties to bypass democratic law making.
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Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
So we send either one person or a small contingent of people (probably no larger than five) to represent the most important interest group (the public) in these agreements because these agreements will affect the general public and leaving that group’s concerns out of the picture does nobody any favors.
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horse with no name is furious that people are more in favour of due process.
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No, being in a position of power, being voted in by the people, is a privilege that these politicians are not entitled to and if we are to grant such privileges we must demand transparency.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
A democracy means more than just voting. So yeah, you get way more than two bites.
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If only that were true.
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Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
It is time to say "fuck you"
The public have one big leverage, without them there are no effective enforcement of said rules.
You want to shove your rules down the throat of others?
Well, you can try, just don't be surprised when people say no.
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Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
And yet somehow they find a way to get things done. I don't think trade negotiating transparency is nearly as 'silly' as you claim, not when we have examples of it working already elsewhere.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
Just sayin'.
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Funny, last I checked the tech community has been using revision control processes for decades and look what we've built.
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Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
I think the underlying problem, however, is that the public has no voice in the negotiations either directly or indirectly They are dominated by companies or company representatives. This results in a (reasonable, in my opinion) feeling that we, the people, need to oversee the whole deal. We cannot trust congress to know which horses are reasonable to trade away and which are deal-breakers.
I have a different solution: in my opinion, the people have no effective representation in the federal government right now. Under those circumstances, it is impossible to come to any legitimate treaty or international agreement.
So, until we fix the government, there should be no new treaties at all.
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Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
Holy shit... I thought we lived in a democracy?! Guess I better wake up?
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Re: Re: Re: Transparency has it's limits too
If the agreement needs to be negotiated in secret for the process to work, then it should be secret for everyone. Giving one side of the issue VIP access and completely shutting out the other is just corruption, plain and simple.
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
If these groups had no influence here, I believe there would not be as much demand for full transparency.
These industries quite literally *need* to be told that they may not have more say than the people that they insist on wronging.
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
In the interests of transparency then, let me ask you:
What do you think the key aims are/should be in TPP?(i.e. the changes to trade agreements that are actually NEEDED)
Do you know whether these are in fact addressed in TPP?
Do you think it is better to have a trade agreement at any cost even if all but about 10,000 of the afore-mentioned 250M people end up getting out of the back of their locked van yelling "What the f*ck are we doing here?"?
Is this outcome better or worse than no additional trade agreement and how?
Do you think it is all or nothing or is there a way that public interest could be included without the 250M "back seat drivers? (And don't say politicians represent the people because I'd like your answer based in reality please)
Since it is supposed to be a "secret" negotiation, is it right that those industries (and most of the afore mentioned "10,000 people" that like the destination) that benefit directly from them get to know and influence what happens?
Given the usual US strong-arming of such processes, it's reasonably likely that the US economy will come out of it with some sort of net "win" even if most of the people in it get screwed. This is likely to be at the expense of many of the other countries concerned. Do you care?
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
In other words, the public, whom the TPP would affect, would not agree with the proposed measures, so let's shut them out of the process? And what do you mean, "can't get anything *big* done"? Big as in how? You mean like trampling on people's rights in order to prop up their imaginary property?
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
so what you are really saying is the public is too dumb to come to a consensus?I'm not sure 100% agreement by the public is necessary. But listening to the publics concerns and taking them into consideration and making compromises would be much better than dismissing the public out of hand.
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Re: Transparency has it's limits too
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/sarc tag
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Liz...
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Re: Liz...
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We don't need any more martyrs.
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