Feds Now Demanding Internet Companies Hand Over User Passwords Too

Leaders Of The 9/11 Commission Say NSA Surveillance Has Gone Too Far

from the wow dept

Thu, Jul 25th 2013 1:02pm — Mike Masnick

One of the key talking points from defenders of the NSA surveillance program is that they had to implement it after the 9/11 Commission revealed "holes" in information gathering that resulted in 9/11. This is a misstatement of what that report actually indicated -- in that it showed that more than enough data had actually been collected, it's just that the intelligence community didn't do anything with it. Either way, it seems that the leadership of the 9/11 Commission -- Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, who were the chair and vice chair of the committee respectively -- have now spoken out against the NSA surveillance efforts. And they don't hold back:

The NSA's metadata program was put into place with virtually no public debate, a worrisome precedent made worse by erecting unnecessary barriers to public understanding via denials and misleading statements from senior administration officials. Continue Reading

When the Congress and the courts work in secret; when massive amounts of data are collected from Americans and enterprises; when government's power of intrusion into the lives of ordinary citizens, augmented by the awesome power of advanced technologies, is hugely expanded without public debate or discussion over seven years, then our sense of constitutional process and accountability is deeply offended.

Officials insist that the right balance has been struck between security and privacy. But how would we know, when all the decisions have been made in secret, with almost no oversight?

The article goes on in great detail about the problems and calls for a truly public debate. As they note:

We are stronger as a nation when we understand what the government is doing. This does not mean sharing sensitive intelligence with the public. A public debate poses challenges when it involves classified information that dribbles out, obfuscated by misinformation. But there is certainly far more we can discuss openly.

Indeed.

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Filed Under: 9/11 commission, lee hamilton, nsa, nsa surveillance, patriot act, thomas kean

23 Comments

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out_of_the_blue, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:06pm

Oooh, the scheduled comment from former Congressmen!
And Mike has put it out here!

The Republic is saved. Back to your Nintendo, kids.

Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up same place!
http://techdirt.com/
Masnicking: daily spurts of short and trivial traffic-generating items.
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:19pm
  
  Re: Oooh, the scheduled comment from former Congressmen!
  Bluing: Hourly spurts of nothing.
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- Gwiz (profile), 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:19pm
  
  Re: Oooh, the scheduled comment from former Congressmen!
  Ohhh, a scheduled comment from Techdirt's most prominent ankle-biter!
  
  (Which, as usual, contains nothing of substance)
  
  PS: I'm surprised you haven't wore out the F5 on your keyboard yet. You must hit it at least 100 times a day, anxiously awaiting the next Techdirt article appear so you can yap something at them.
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  - Forest_GS, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:45am
    
    Re: Re: Oooh, the scheduled comment from former Congressmen!
    I personally think he's employed by Techdirt, possibly one of the authors in disguise.
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  Glen, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:21pm
  
  Re: Oooh, the scheduled comment from former Congressmen!
  Hey Asshat!!! It's an Xbox 360. Thankyouverymuch....
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  - Jay (profile), 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:23pm
    
    Why Xbox?
    You want to keep a 360 after the spying Microsoft will do for the NSA?
    
    Not a good idea...
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    - Glen, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:36pm
      
      Re: Why Xbox?
      Meh... The money is already spent and the Kinnect is unplugged all the time.
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  RD, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:34pm
  
  Re: Oooh, the scheduled comment from former Congressmen!
  Oooh, the scheduled hard-on for Mike from Out_of_my_Asshole!
  
  And he has put it out here!
  
  ftfy
  
  See? I can make absolutely worthless attack comments that add 0 to the topic just like you!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:27pm

I'm glad the former members of the 9/11 Commission mentioned the Constitution. That really is what we all should be focusing on, because it's at the heart of our democracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:34pm

Note that the identified problem was not lack of data, but lack of analysis and cooperation between agencies. Increased data gathering, and adding more agencies has only made the problems worse. Proof, the Boston bombers got through despite a strong warning being delivered.
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- RichardLB, 26 Jul 2013 @ 8:54am
  
  Yep
  In 2001, the problem was that there were all of these different agencies, from small police departments to the FBI and then some with compartmentalized information. A really good lead or information had next to no chance of making it to the right people. The push was to join it all together and share the information.
  
  @Kean has a good point in that the NSA has continued to evolve the created data cohesiveness without any public oversight.
  
  From a tech & security perspective, the most shocking part is that the public is shocked about all of it. To us in the industry, it's like "Why is this a surprise to everyone?"
  
  @Kean also makes a good point against the Snowden types: "We are stronger as a nation when we understand what the government is doing. This does not mean sharing sensitive intelligence with the public. [..] there is certainly far more we can discuss openly."
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Wally (profile), 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:47pm

One of the key talking points from defenders of the NSA surveillance program is that they had to implement it after the 9/11 Commission revealed "holes" in information gathering that resulted in 9/11.
I find the NSA's statement on why 9/11 happened quite bemusing because they were the ones withholding the data that the FBI needed to bust the people responsible for 9/11.

Once again I cite Nova's "Spy Factory" episode for the information about this.

You see, the very lack of transparency to other Government agencies is what got the NSA to be so far on the defensive front. It's actually in policy to pull stunts like this. Funny thing is, it almost seems like they've told one administration one thing, and the totally opposite to the next. Both House and Senate are watching their typical news agencies to get the information on spying. This fills them with misinformation and bias.

Now if the NSA was truly transparent as they claim to have been, I'm sure the Amash Amendment would have passed. Political polarity is the most dangerous thing a person can side with on such a human scale of debate. I'm saddened yet not surprised that 2/3 of Ohio's representatives were against the amendment.

One thing to note. In my state, in my district, I have always found that the candidate that has had the most things muckraked on is the one you want to vote for. Usually those people have gone through enough shit to know they don't want that shit happening to the people they represent. Ohio is a swing state. We are born of free thinkers, and the two idiots that "represent" my district, and that of my in-laws do not one bit represent the feelings and sentiments of those they represent.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:47pm

and we're supposed to think they didn't know what was going on either? yeah, of course not! almost everyone knew what was happening except the ordinary members of the public that were being spied on, who had nothing to hide from the get-go and the ones that needed to be spied on but wouldn't have been using ordinary and usual means to communicate with each other anyway, unless they were fucking stupid!! the main reason the public is being spied on is because it is much easier to spy on those that have nothing to hide and do things out in the open than to find the 'hidden' people that communicate secretively, trying their damnedest not to be caught in the first place!! which self respecting terrorist in their right mind would just send a txt or make a phone call to another member of whatever group they belonged to without taking the strictest of measures to remain hidden?? i mean, come on!!
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2013 @ 1:55pm
  
  Re:
  Which do you think a politician wants a warning of:
  
  1) A possible terrorist incident that probably does not threaten them.
  2) A move to oust them at the next election.
  
  The latter is what blanket surveillance detects!
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  - Wally (profile), 25 Jul 2013 @ 2:18pm
    
    Re: Re:
    The most disturbing part of both those options is that the politician will likely put his or her own interests above those they are supposed to be representing.
    
    This situation affects major corporations and normal civilians alike. I for one am VERY uncomfortable that self interest has become fashionable as of late.
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    - Aufie, 27 Jul 2013 @ 6:52am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Prove positive (as if it was needed!) that they do put their interests first:
      http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/07/money-nsa-vote/
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- dombey (profile), 27 Jul 2013 @ 2:32pm
  
  Re:
  The purpose of the NSA is to protect the rulers from the ruled. The rest is window-dressing.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2013 @ 3:12pm

After checking both the US Goverment and 9/11 Truthers versions I can only conclude that 9/11 was an inside job. They area fraid that people wake up because this lie is the excuse they use to trample the Constitution. Freedom and privacy almost don't exist because of 9/11.
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 Jul 2013 @ 4:43pm
  
  Re:
  One word my friend. OIL!
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  - Anonymous Howard (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 4:04am
    
    Re: Re:
    *control
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- Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:06am
  
  Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jul 25th, 2013 @ 3:12pm
  Yes because Osama Bin Laden just loved everything American right?
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  - John Fenderson (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:10am
    
    Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jul 25th, 2013 @ 3:12pm
    Bin Laden's beef wasn't with the US's existence, it was with specific actions the US was taking in his part of the world.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2013 @ 6:11pm

Trying to garner support for the Good ol boys club, why dont you just admit 911 was an inside job then maybe we could trust you and your opinion.
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